All Segments
Hiten Shah: The Future Of Remote Work
48 segments available
Subscribe + listen to Creator Lab on any podcast app: Apple: http://bit.ly/creatorlabapple Spotify: http://bit.ly/creatorlabspotify YouTube: https://www.YouTube.com/creatorlabfm Google: http://bit.ly/creatorlabgoog Hiten Shah has built multiple SaaS companies including Crazy Egg, KISSmetrics & FYI. In this conversation, we discuss the future of remote work & lessons learned from building, investing & advising 120+ companies. You can check out the full analysis Hiten and his team published here: https://usefyi.com/remote-work-report/ 63% of US companies now have remote workers and 96% of remote workers would recommend working remotely to a friend. But what does "remote work" actually mean? Many people think of digital nomads galavanting around tropical islands while fitting in some Wifi connected work time – or freelancers working out of trendy coffee shops. But as Hiten and I discuss, most of us are already participating in some form of "remote work". Whether that's a remote meeting we have with external partners, flexible work schedules or simply, "working from home" – this is an important macro trend that is going to impact all of us as the nature of work continues to evolve. Five Things To Listen Out For: (1) What remote work really means – Hiten's team did a deep dive to uncover what remote work means in practice (2) Understanding intent through keyword research – how Hiten used keyword research to understand the specifics around what people are really looking for (3) Facts vs Feelings – mental frameworks to separate facts and feelings to make decisions (4) Dealing with loss – the lesson Hiten's dad shared when his mother passed away at a young age and how that has helped shape him today (5) Why words matter – the difference between "self-funding" and "bootstrapping"
Segments Timeline
Lessons from Loss
Hiten Shah shares a poignant lesson from his childhood after the death of his mother. He recounts a powerful conversation with his father about resilience and the importance of recognizing that while the world continues unchanged, personal loss creates a permanent shift in one's life. This segment explores how emotional experiences shape our perspectives and the strength required to navigate through them.
"in today's episode so when my mom died I was eight okay and my dad told me something really powerful at that time we walk we're outside our apartment this was in New York on 72nd in New York yeah Tore..."
The Silicon Valley Takeover
In this segment, Hiten Shah introduces himself and sets the stage for a dynamic conversation about his experiences in Silicon Valley. He discusses the energy of the environment and the excitement of being part of a vibrant tech community. This introduction highlights the collaborative spirit of Silicon Valley and the importance of networking in the tech industry.
"Heaton shot thanks for coming on the show yeah thanks for having me yeah I was doing like like brown guy bump okay that sounds like that sounds like something else actually all right well listen thank..."
From Africa to Silicon Valley
Hiten Shah shares his unique background, detailing his journey from being born in Zambia to moving to the United States. He reflects on his early memories of Africa and how they shaped his identity. This segment emphasizes the diverse experiences that contribute to Hiten's perspective as an entrepreneur in the tech industry.
"it's like my friends at drifts say six stars Arbus yes they don't say bus but I do so like number one or buses what I say this is it man I loved energy yeah I kind of needed a pick-me-up because I was..."
The Path to Entrepreneurship
Hiten discusses his early career and the pivotal moments that led him to become an entrepreneur. He recounts starting a consulting company with Neil Patel and how their partnership evolved. This segment provides insight into the beginnings of Hiten's entrepreneurial journey and the importance of collaboration in achieving success.
"thinking of it I hope they do some research that's about placebos real and mushrooms are cool yes anything there's not a psychedelic kind yeah yeah exactly well listen so you have done a bunch of stuf..."
Building Crazy Egg
In this segment, Hiten Shah talks about the founding of Crazy Egg, a heat mapping tool that revolutionized website analytics. He shares the challenges and successes of launching the product and how it became a staple for website owners. This discussion highlights the significance of innovation in the tech industry and the impact of Crazy Egg on user experience.
"really no I helped us or just you haven't I just haven't done it that seems like something you won't do no you don't have a draw really it's really weird that's interesting maybe I will in ten years t..."
The Evolution of KISSmetrics
Hiten explains the transition from Crazy Egg to KISSmetrics, detailing the decision to raise funds for the new venture. He discusses the importance of metrics in understanding user behavior and how KISSmetrics aimed to provide deeper insights for businesses. This segment underscores the role of data in driving business decisions and the evolution of Hiten's entrepreneurial focus.
"for your wife is Neil Patel's sister yes since I was a guy who you started several companies well yeah he's an online marketer I've known him since he was 11 and I was 15 yeah and he's my brother-in-l..."
Self-Funding vs. Bootstrapping
Hiten Shah delves into the terminology surrounding funding, distinguishing between self-funding and bootstrapping. He emphasizes the importance of accurate language in the entrepreneurial community and discusses the implications of each funding approach. This segment provides valuable insights into the financial strategies that startups can adopt.
"you actually got back to me and that was like a week and a half ago yeah and now we're in a room yeah I'm in a good time so so thanks first of all and to Marx you know like you have really served the ..."
The Value of Words in Business
In this segment, Hiten reflects on the significance of language in business and how it shapes perceptions. He discusses the connotations of terms like 'bootstrapping' and 'self-funding' and their impact on entrepreneurial narratives. This discussion highlights the importance of communication and clarity in the startup ecosystem.
"how to download movies and TV shows on Kazaa yes that's it what's up right and that was back in the day and so that's what I knew I have had a computer since I was 8 yeah so very proficient with it I ..."
Success Stories of Self-Funded Companies
Hiten shares examples of successful companies that started as self-funded ventures, including Atlassian and Buffer. He discusses how these companies navigated their growth journeys and the lessons learned along the way. This segment illustrates the potential of self-funding as a viable path to success in the tech industry.
"and so that was from since 2003 and so then we started building software products tried building about a dozen of them and got really lucky with one called crazy egg yeah which is still around today a..."
The Nonprofit Perspective
Hiten draws parallels between for-profit and nonprofit organizations, discussing the importance of purpose in business. He reflects on the challenges faced by nonprofits and how they can communicate their impact effectively. This segment emphasizes the need for clarity in mission and the role of purpose in driving organizational success.
"the past for a long time my wife was running it okay and we currently have a general manager who's running it at the moment and so the way I think about this is like we were at that time the way we th..."
The Nuance of Self-Funding
Hiten Shah discusses the often misunderstood concept of self-funding in the startup ecosystem. He highlights successful companies like Atlassian and Trello that began as self-funded ventures, emphasizing that self-funding is not inherently negative. Shah also draws parallels to the nonprofit sector, exploring the implications of terminology like 'nonprofit' versus 'for-profit' and how it affects perception and culture in business.
"okay which I know is a little nuance no no I I think that in the investment community it definitely has a negative connotation that being said some of the largest successes yeah started self-funded ye..."
The Evolution of Quick Sprout
In this segment, Hiten Shah shares the history of Quick Sprout, originally started by his brother-in-law Neil Patel. He discusses the challenges and opportunities in managing the blog and the potential for monetization through SEO tools, reflecting on the crowded market and the lessons learned from their attempts to innovate.
"two hours on that so will you have a lot of experience yeah a little bit yeah so so great Matt so you worked on that you've also so quick sprout you mentioned mentioned quick sprout sorry you mentione..."
Trading Time for Money
Hiten Shah reflects on the concept of trading time for money, discussing how this model impacts business scalability. He contrasts agency work with software companies, noting that software can achieve higher profit margins with fewer employees. Shah emphasizes the importance of efficiency and the challenges of growing an agency in today's competitive landscape.
"it in different ways we attempted at building like a SEO tool and a marketing tool and we kind of decided not to do that mainly because it's a crowded space and the things we wanted to build either th..."
The Shift to Venture Funding
Shah explains his transition from self-funding to raising venture capital for KISSmetrics. He discusses the learning curve involved in understanding venture funding and the factors that influenced investors' decisions. This segment highlights the evolving landscape of startup funding and the importance of timing and market readiness.
"lot i think about costs a lot i think about things like headcount a lot right III believe that if you run an agency and you want to grow it literally grow it so grow it to like nine figures in revenue..."
The Challenges of Growing a Company
In this insightful discussion, Hiten Shah addresses the complexities of scaling a company in a crowded market. He contrasts the ease of starting a business today with the difficulties of achieving growth and retention. Shah emphasizes the need for a strong product and effective marketing strategies to stand out in an increasingly competitive environment.
"not how the world works right well maybe maybe we're human beings too if it's easy to start more people are starting coming that's true but I guess you could to play devil's advocate ten years ago it ..."
The Future of Remote Work
Hiten Shah introduces his research on remote work, sharing key findings from a comprehensive report. He reveals that 96% of remote workers would recommend this work style, highlighting the positive sentiment towards remote work. Shah discusses the misconceptions surrounding remote work terminology and the importance of understanding the evolving nature of work in today's society.
"yeah for sure right think another part of that is if you think of how things spread ten years ago through social media and let's say the organic reach on those platform was so much higher I think it's..."
Keyword Research Insights
In this segment, Hiten Shah dives into the significance of keyword research in understanding remote work trends. He explains how the term 'work from home' dominates search queries, indicating a shift in how people perceive remote work. Shah emphasizes the need for companies to adapt to this changing landscape and the implications for job seekers and employers alike.
"report mmm you could go there and I just found out that the report is about 40,000 pixels long pixels long pixels so it's like really really long oh okay yeah and it's like 6,000 words but it's really..."
The Shift to Distributed Work
Hiten discusses the transition to distributed work, asserting that all work is becoming remote. He emphasizes that even those who work from home are participating in distributed work, and he points out the confusion surrounding these terms. This segment highlights the need for companies to adapt to this new reality and create effective practices for remote work.
"right work from home work from all kinds of different professions work from home Amazon I don't even know what that really means but that's typed in quite a bit I think that might be there's a lot of ..."
Challenges of Remote Work
Hiten outlines the primary challenges of remote work, including communication issues and feelings of isolation. He shares his personal experience of working remotely, noting the balance between productivity and the need for social interaction. This segment addresses the emotional and practical hurdles that remote workers face.
"and it's an opportunity to create a set of norms a set of best practices and really talk about the infrastructure that's missing an infrastructure that we can create the infrastructure that exists at ..."
The Desire for Freedom
In this segment, Hiten reflects on the desire for freedom that comes with remote work. He discusses how traditional office structures impose restrictions on employees, and how remote work offers the opportunity for self-direction. Hiten emphasizes the importance of adapting to this freedom while maintaining accountability.
"by far so there's no comparison I think that when I would look to hire people five years ago maybe even ten years ago though first one of the first things I would say is you're gonna have to figure ou..."
Productivity Challenges for Companies
Hiten identifies hidden challenges related to productivity and efficiency in remote work settings. He explains how companies struggle to maintain oversight and accountability without the physical presence of employees. This segment highlights the need for new strategies to ensure productivity in a remote work environment.
"part there's meetings you have to attend things like that but they generally go away and when they go away we don't know what to do yeah so I think there are a lot of people that just have no idea how..."
Building Relationships Remotely
Hiten discusses the importance of building relationships in a remote work context. He contrasts in-person interactions with remote communication, emphasizing the need for effective email and text-based communication. This segment explores how to foster connections and rapport without face-to-face meetings.
"the biggest challenge you think for companies allowing people to do what remotely yeah so what we did was we researched individuals a lot and when I look at what we learned I think the company's bigge..."
Cultural Change in Remote Work
Hiten explains that transitioning to remote work requires significant cultural changes within companies. He warns against making remote employees feel like second-class citizens and stresses the importance of inclusivity in meetings. This segment underscores the need for companies to adapt their culture to support remote work effectively.
"in person is for that reason yeah you can have a great chat over Skype or whatever but there's a certain element of communication that doesn't translate sure does that mean the whole world should be g..."
Creating Equality in Remote Teams
In this final segment, Hiten emphasizes the importance of ensuring that remote employees feel equal to their in-office counterparts. He discusses practical steps companies can take to foster inclusivity and equality, particularly during all-hands meetings. This segment wraps up the conversation by highlighting the need for thoughtful practices in remote work environments.
"to yeah we're used to just showing up right and adding value like you said your people getting to know each other that way yeah so here it's like I emailed someone in this capacity after three weeks t..."
Cultural Change in Remote Work
Shah explains that transitioning to remote work requires a significant cultural change within companies. He points out that remote employees often feel like second-class citizens, especially during all-hands meetings. To foster equality, he suggests that remote workers should be treated the same as in-office employees, emphasizing the importance of inclusivity in communication.
"an external area sort of relationship and yeah I think there is a lot of value in doing it in person I'm not debating the value yeah it's more so are you using it as a crutch are you using it as an ex..."
Creating Equal Opportunities for Remote Workers
In this segment, Hiten Shah shares insights on how to ensure remote employees feel valued and included. He discusses the importance of setting up meetings in a way that treats all participants equally, regardless of their location. Shah argues that companies must recognize the challenges of remote work and adapt their communication strategies to create a more inclusive environment.
"in the first place I think a lot of it is a cultural change okay and so it's much harder than most people would think and you're already at some level of scale if you're less than about a dozen people..."
The Role of Technology in Remote Work
Shah highlights the importance of technology in facilitating remote work. He discusses how tools can help manage documents and maintain accountability within remote teams. Shah expresses excitement about the potential of technology to enhance remote work experiences and improve collaboration among distributed teams.
"my god right like not equals like seniority and hierarchy no no no equals like they're treated the same way as everyone else from a culture and an HR and like a you know sentiment perspective and like..."
Embracing Remote Work Flexibility
Hiten Shah shares his perspective on the growing trend of remote work and the flexibility it offers. He acknowledges that many companies are already operating in a remote capacity, whether through freelancers or agencies. Shah emphasizes the importance of adapting to this new reality and leveraging the tools available to enhance remote work experiences.
"it up for them you're right yeah right and and then they are not gonna feel like equals yeah okay I guarantee you this doesn't scale unless you treat everyone the same in those scenarios yeah and so t..."
Understanding Remote Work Trends
In this segment, Shah discusses the terminology surrounding remote work, such as 'work from home' versus 'remote work.' He explains how keyword research can provide insights into how people perceive and discuss remote work, emphasizing the importance of understanding audience intent in marketing and communication strategies.
"yeah and documents are a big part of making sure you have accountability and are actually able to work on a remote team it's also something that we're excited about we're a remote company so a lot of ..."
The Importance of Keyword Research
Hiten Shah elaborates on the significance of keyword research in understanding customer needs and preferences. He explains how analyzing search terms related to remote work can reveal insights into audience intent and help businesses tailor their messaging. Shah advocates for using data-driven approaches to better connect with customers.
"we're at a place now where the tools are there so we're gonna spend a lot more time on remote work at my company to help essentially like do our best to share what we learn educate the world and learn..."
Finding Problems to Solve
Shah reflects on his passion for identifying and solving problems in various business contexts. He shares his belief that entrepreneurs are naturally inclined to seek out challenges and create solutions. This mindset drives his approach to business and innovation, emphasizing the importance of understanding customer pain points.
"about when there's like products like that that exist in the market that help you do it they're making sure you have internet they're making sure you're able to get your work done they're helping you ..."
The Entrepreneurial Mindset
In this segment, Hiten Shah discusses the entrepreneurial mindset and the drive to solve problems. He explains that his interest in businesses stems from a desire to identify challenges and create solutions. Shah emphasizes the importance of engaging with customers to uncover their needs and develop effective business strategies.
"sure man thanks for sharing that and I'm looking forward to going through the report and we'll yeah we'll kind of share this with with the podcast as well sounds good switching gears a little bit sure..."
The Problem Solver's Mindset
Hiten Shah shares his intrinsic motivation for starting businesses, emphasizing his passion for identifying and solving problems. He discusses how this mindset drives his entrepreneurial journey, regardless of the industry or category. Hiten believes that humans are naturally inclined to find and address challenges, which is fundamental to his approach in business.
"different things one of the things that struck out to me when I was doing the research on your background was you've had few different companies and they all kind of operate in different areas like th..."
Creating Problems to Solve
In this segment, Hiten reflects on his tendency to create problems when none exist, highlighting a unique aspect of his personality. He explains how this behavior stems from a desire to stay mentally engaged and productive. Hiten discusses the balance between being proactive in problem-solving and avoiding unproductive patterns, offering insights into his self-awareness and personal growth.
"and that has a lot to do with talking to people yeah there's a lot to do with you know research and keyword research all the way to customer interviews or interviews for people and learning what they ..."
The Pragmatic vs. Emotional Approach
Hiten Shah delves into the duality of human nature, contrasting the pragmatic and emotional sides of decision-making. He emphasizes the importance of recognizing when emotions influence business relationships and decisions. By understanding this distinction, Hiten aims to navigate conflicts more effectively and maintain clarity in his professional interactions.
"common thing that people do and never get to grips with in terms of like you're if you're always maybe I'm the same actually I have to think about that more but that's I'm only shaking my head a littl..."
Navigating Relationships in Business
In this insightful discussion, Hiten shares his experiences balancing personal and professional relationships, particularly with family members in business. He reflects on the challenges of maintaining objectivity during tough conversations and the importance of separating emotional ties from business decisions. Hiten's reflections provide valuable lessons on managing relationships in a professional context.
"we wanted to make a great product that individuals loved first yeah now all we're doing since we launched it and built some things out and figured out okay individuals love it enough we are building a..."
The Role of Therapy in Self-Reflection
Hiten discusses the benefits of therapy in gaining perspective on personal and professional challenges. He highlights the value of speaking with a neutral party to process emotions and thoughts. This segment underscores the importance of self-reflection and mental health in navigating the complexities of entrepreneurship and relationships.
"balanced that because those two things don't always go hand-in-hand have you got better at that over time yeah I think I have and I messed it up too when I think I figured it out and like my current t..."
Separating Facts from Emotions
In this segment, Hiten emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between facts and the emotional narratives we create. He illustrates how separating these elements can lead to clearer decision-making and better communication in relationships. Hiten's insights provide a framework for understanding personal insecurities and improving interpersonal dynamics.
"probably not yeah yeah yeah even if it's an extreme like love or something like that there's probably something there that we're both solving for it that we might not understand because it's emotions ..."
The Impact of Emotional Narratives
Hiten Shah elaborates on how emotional narratives can distort our perceptions of reality, particularly in professional settings. He shares an example of how assumptions can lead to misunderstandings and emphasizes the need for clarity in communication. This segment highlights the significance of addressing emotional undercurrents to foster healthier relationships.
"definitely done therapy yeah and I've definitely learned a lot from it and and one of the main things I learned is that it can be really helpful to talk to a neutral party for sure that doesn't give a..."
Learning from Personal Relationships
Hiten reflects on his personal experiences with conflict in relationships, discussing the challenges of differing conflict resolution styles. He shares insights on the importance of understanding these dynamics to avoid unproductive patterns. This segment offers valuable lessons on personal growth and the complexities of human interactions.
"you can write down okay well this is what actually happened and then when you speak to them you don't assume you figure out a lot of the time it's never the case it's actually your own in securities a..."
Chasing Conflict vs. Avoiding It
In this concluding segment, Hiten discusses the contrasting approaches to conflict resolution, emphasizing the need for balance. He shares his realization about the challenges faced when one partner seeks resolution while the other avoids it. Hiten's reflections provide a deeper understanding of interpersonal dynamics and the importance of effective communication in relationships.
"mm-hmm and I realized what that could have been and for me personally it's usually not in business because in business I usually figure out okay could have done better learn from it let's move on but ..."
Emotional Realities vs Rational Thoughts
Hiten explores the tension between rational thinking and emotional responses, particularly in the face of loss. He shares personal experiences that illustrate how emotions can complicate our understanding of reality and decision-making.
"that's like a big learning right to be like when there's conflict I run towards it when there's conflict the other person wants to run away from him and if there is conflict in those situations what d..."
Lessons from Loss
Hiten recounts a powerful lesson from his father following the death of his mother when he was eight. He reflects on how this experience shaped his understanding of resilience and the importance of accepting change in life.
"matter what other people think about you yeah I think it's something if something I'm learning yeah it's something I'm learning to get good with mmm I used to want everyone to think I'm nice yeah and ..."
Finding Strength in Change
In this poignant moment, Hiten shares how his father's wisdom helped him cope with loss. He emphasizes the importance of recognizing that while personal circumstances may change, the world continues, and we must adapt to our new realities.
"so it's yeah so then how do you actually deal with that though because you're you're constantly kind of dancing between the two and you can't it can't fake the rational all the rationality in the worl..."
Accepting New Realities
Hiten discusses the acceptance of new realities after significant life changes. He reflects on how his father's perspective taught him to focus on moving forward rather than dwelling on what cannot be changed.
"said no house eight years old I said no yeah yeah for them it has it but for us it has so he's been dropping bars since since a long time mm-hmm he's just like a very wise guy he likes to help people ..."
The Complexity of Human Emotions
Hiten and his host delve into the complexity of human emotions, discussing how rationality often clashes with feelings. They explore the importance of acknowledging emotions while striving for rational understanding in life.
"that's how it is yeah so you better get good with it he didn't say it like that but like the way the eight-year-old took it was like okay so I don't have a choice yeah something has changed I don't ha..."
The Drive to Create
In this closing segment, Hiten shares his passion for building and creating. He explains that his motivation comes from a desire to solve problems and innovate, rather than seeking retirement or leisure, highlighting his commitment to continuous growth.
"about all sorts of stuff yeah last couple of things just to kind of wrap up we've talked about things that make you happy things that make you successful on paper things that make you rich things that..."
Wrapping Up with Hiten Shah
As the conversation concludes, Hiten reflects on the journey of entrepreneurship and personal growth. He encourages listeners to embrace their paths and shares where to find more about his work and insights on remote work.
"doing something yeah sure man this has been this has been great we've gone from a rollercoaster of laughing and yeah getting serious and coming back sorry thanks again man yeah I appreciate you taking..."