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Cannabis Startup Founders David Hua and Vincent Ning on Legalization, Banking, and Industry Trends

Cannabis Startup Founders David Hua and Vincent Ning on Legalization, Banking, and Industry Trends

38 segments available

David Hua is CEO and cofounder of Meadow - https://getmeadow.com/. Meadow makes retail and delivery software for dispensaries. They were part of the Winter 2015 batch. You can check them out at GetMeadow.com. David’s on Twitter - https://twitter.com/hua Vincent Ning is CEO and cofounder of Nabis - https://getnabis.com/. Nabis is a cannabis services group. They offer distribution, logistics, sales, and marketing. You can check them out at GetNabis.com. Vincent's on Twitter - https://twitter.com/vcning The YC podcast is hosted by Craig Cannon - https://twitter.com/craigcannon *** Topics 00:00 - What David brought with him 5:10 - Microdosing 6:10 - What are people buying? 10:00 - Customer demographics 11:22 - CBD 14:20 - Changing vocabulary around cannabis 16:35 - What is Meadow? 17:00 - What is Nabis? 17:15 - Why did they choose to not do cannabis product manufacturing? 22:00 - Fundraising as a cannabis company 25:30 - Why is there not one dominant cannabis company? 29:15 - Legalization across Canada 31:00 - Banking as a cannabis company 35:35 - Taxes 37:00 - Price sensitivity 39:35 - Brand loyalty 42:45 - What will the market look like in 5-10 years? 49:30 - Cannabis media 51:45 - Psychedelics 56:00 - Exonerations and social equity programs

Segments Timeline

1
0:00 - 5:10
5:09 duration875 words

Exploring Terpene Profiles

David Hua introduces a selection of cannabis products, emphasizing the importance of terpenes in the consumer experience. He discusses the evolution of cannabis consumption, comparing it to wine tastings, and highlights various strains and their unique aromas, such as blueberry and citrus profiles. This segment sets the stage for understanding how terpenes influence the effects and enjoyment of cannabis.

"we should start by talking about what David has brought oh yeah this is different than a normal podcast yeah yeah yeah I bought a selection of my favorite bowls which my wife makes they're called mell..."

2
5:10 - 6:10
1:00 duration164 words

The Rise of Microdosing

David Hua discusses the trend of microdosing in cannabis consumption, highlighting how it has changed consumer behavior. He explains that new consumers are looking for controlled experiences rather than overwhelming highs, and emphasizes the importance of understanding dosage to avoid negative effects like anxiety. This segment captures the shift towards more mindful cannabis use.

"in the market new consumer you know wants to do more micro dosing really yeah so you know micro dosing I think has revolutionized how I think about you know cannabis consumption yeah right because you..."

3
6:10 - 10:00
3:50 duration709 words

Current Cannabis Market Trends

In this segment, David Hua shares insights on what consumers are currently purchasing in the cannabis market. He notes that flower and pre-rolls remain the most popular items, especially among tourists in urban areas. The discussion also touches on the growing interest in edibles and concentrates, reflecting changing consumer preferences as legalization expands.

"more people buying edibles since its become legalized in California well at least from our standpoint as a distributor the higher velocity items and high volume items that flow through the market are ..."

4
10:00 - 11:22
1:22 duration252 words

Demographics of Cannabis Consumers

David Hua reveals surprising demographic trends in cannabis consumption, particularly the increasing interest among baby boomers. He discusses how this generation is turning to cannabis for health reasons, replacing prescription drugs, and embracing cannabis as a symbol of youth. This segment highlights the evolving perception of cannabis across different age groups.

"a certain segment where people are really taking it up in terms of age or demographic the fastest demographic we're seeing in deck is actually the baby boomers really yeah the they are coming in and t..."

5
11:22 - 14:20
2:58 duration539 words

Understanding CBD

David Hua breaks down the concept of CBD (cannabidiol) for listeners unfamiliar with cannabis terminology. He explains its origins from both marijuana and hemp, its legal status, and its medicinal properties. This segment emphasizes the therapeutic benefits of CBD without the psychoactive effects of THC, making it appealing to a broader audience.

"so I think it stands for cannabidiol if the I don't know how to actually set cannabidiol in a bad I'll yeah and it basically comes from you can actually derive from two different plants like marijuana..."

6
14:20 - 15:52
1:32 duration272 words

The Entourage Effect Explained

In this segment, David Hua discusses the entourage effect, which refers to how different cannabinoids work together to enhance therapeutic benefits. He explains the importance of lab testing and the discovery of various cannabinoids beyond THC and CBD. This segment underscores the complexity of cannabis and the potential for tailored products that cater to specific consumer needs.

"lingo yeah or is that not true I think there's I think the lexicon is is continuing to build I mean a lot of people don't know yeah and I think it's kind of like wine yeah right where you have your pe..."

7
16:12 - 17:00
0:47 duration133 words

Meadow's Role in the Cannabis Industry

David Hua clarifies that Meadow focuses on providing software solutions for dispensaries rather than manufacturing cannabis products. He discusses the importance of understanding inventory and compliance in the cannabis supply chain, emphasizing Meadow's commitment to supporting dispensaries.

"so when you look at something like a 3:1 CBD or THC CBD they most likely extracted it probably co2 they were left with different compounds then they measured it see what the concentration was and then..."

8
17:00 - 17:15
0:14 duration44 words

Nabis: Distribution in Cannabis

Vincent Ning introduces Nabis, a cannabis distribution company that operates at the wholesale level. He explains the company's focus on moving products through the supply chain without engaging in manufacturing, highlighting the operational advantages of this model.

"distribution exactly so companies called nabis and we basically do distribution like license distribution so we'll basically just move product at a wholesale level in the supply chain okay and what ca..."

9
17:15 - 18:00
0:45 duration147 words

Challenges of Cannabis Manufacturing

Ning discusses the capital-intensive nature of cannabis manufacturing, explaining why both he and Hua chose not to enter this segment of the industry. He highlights the expertise and equipment required for manufacturing, which can be a barrier for new entrants.

"higher level of the business that's a good question I think for me at least it was it's a pretty capital intensive side of the supply chain just because you need to buy all the equipment and machinery..."

10
18:00 - 19:02
1:02 duration190 words

Fundraising in the Cannabis Sector

The founders share their experiences with fundraising in the cannabis industry, noting the unique challenges posed by regulatory requirements. Ning describes the friction investors face when considering cannabis ventures, while Hua reflects on the advantages of being part of Y Combinator.

"did fundraise we just closed a recent round our seed round rats thanks yeah and it was it was quite different it was quite an ordeal compared to tech or finance or any of the traditional kind of VC fu..."

11
19:02 - 20:03
1:00 duration155 words

Navigating Investor Concerns

Hua elaborates on the complexities of attracting investment in the cannabis space, particularly due to the stigma surrounding the industry. He discusses how they had to educate potential investors about the cannabis market and its growth potential.

"was fund raising similarly difficult for you guys for meadow yeah well we went through YC right which i think is an unfair advantage but we were the first company to go through I didn't think they wer..."

12
20:03 - 21:00
0:57 duration177 words

The California Cannabis Market

The conversation shifts to the California cannabis market, where Hua highlights the historical significance of cannabis legalization. He discusses the challenges and opportunities presented by the state's unique regulatory landscape and the potential for growth in the industry.

"and they don't you know if you've looked at prop 215 and where cannabis was records work I considered evidence so people didn't really keep keep records yeah you know heavy records that's why you hear..."

13
21:00 - 22:00
0:59 duration188 words

The Fragmented Cannabis Industry

Ning addresses the fragmentation within the cannabis industry, explaining why there isn't a dominant brand akin to Marlboro. He discusses the complexities of the supply chain and the regulatory hurdles that prevent larger companies from emerging.

"yeah and when we apply to YC you know we ended up getting accepted and fortunately as this stuff was happening in Colorado there are a lot of signs in other states legalizing as well I mean in Califor..."

14
22:00 - 23:00
1:00 duration181 words

Understanding Market Dynamics

The founders discuss the dynamics of the cannabis market post-legalization, including the challenges of compliance and local regulations. They highlight the importance of understanding both state and local laws for successful operation in the cannabis industry.

"they angels that could just spend their own money on whatever they wanted for us it was about half half like in terms of capital committed like we we do have a lot of smaller Czech angels just because..."

15
23:00 - 24:00
1:00 duration221 words

The Impact of Local Laws

Hua explains how local laws affect cannabis distribution and manufacturing, creating a complex landscape for businesses. He emphasizes the need for advocacy and legal work to navigate these challenges and ensure compliance.

"I think people had to get really comfortable with the context around cannabis first yeah and so there's a lot of meetings that were just like introductory here's what's going on the space this is wher..."

16
24:00 - 25:00
1:00 duration166 words

California's Cannabis Economy

The segment concludes with a discussion on California's cannabis economy, noting its historical roots and current challenges. The founders express hope for maintaining the culture of cannabis as the industry continues to evolve.

"know it's popular you have no idea how much weed people are buying yeah I mean for us we kind of say it's the end of prohibition in California and I don't know if this is the case anymore but a couple..."

17
25:56 - 29:14
3:17 duration567 words

The Fragmented Cannabis Market

David Hua and Vincent Ning discuss the fragmentation of the cannabis market in California, explaining why there isn't a dominant brand like Budweiser. They highlight the complexities introduced by legalization, including the reconfiguration of the supply chain and the challenges posed by local laws that create barriers for growers and manufacturers.

"distributing a lot of products across California but yeah none are I guess fairly dominant not our dominant in multiple states and I think that's probably a lot of the reason why you don't have like a..."

18
29:14 - 30:39
1:25 duration238 words

Canada's Cannabis Legalization Impact

The conversation shifts to Canada's recent federal legalization of cannabis. David and Vincent explore how this change could influence the U.S. market, particularly in California, as Canadian companies begin to invest in legal states and the potential for consolidation in the fragmented market.

"what's Janet's coming just federally legalized so I think October 17th was it the date that come they're basically they passed the bill and now it's gonna be fully enacted to be legalized across the c..."

19
30:39 - 31:55
1:15 duration236 words

Banking Challenges for Cannabis Companies

David and Vincent address the banking challenges faced by cannabis companies due to federal regulations. They explain the reliance on cash transactions and the workaround strategies businesses use to manage their finances in a largely cash-based industry.

"their stay in the ground for the future yeah and so that's just to you know go back to why isn't there this massive brand it's because there's no capital - right not only do you have all these hoops t..."

20
31:55 - 35:12
3:16 duration589 words

The Role of Distributors in Compliance

The segment focuses on the critical role of distributors in the cannabis supply chain. David and Vincent explain how distributors ensure compliance with state regulations, manage tax collections, and serve as gatekeepers for product movement between licensed entities.

"sure things you know on the up-and-up and then they take that cash bring it back to the dispensary and then and that's it and they just kind of go back and forth right it's not it's not like they're i..."

21
35:12 - 36:06
0:54 duration163 words

Understanding Cannabis Taxation

David and Vincent delve into the complexities of cannabis taxation in California. They discuss the various taxes imposed on cultivation and sales, and how these taxes contribute to the high prices of cannabis products, impacting both consumers and businesses.

"okay so in on that tax side I'm curious because what is the what's the rate 20 something percent the cultivation tax is per per pound no either trim or full flower and that's a you know 275 or 925 rig..."

22
36:06 - 39:31
3:25 duration639 words

Price Sensitivity in the Cannabis Market

The discussion highlights the price sensitivity among cannabis consumers, particularly medical patients who have turned to the illicit market due to high legal prices. David and Vincent analyze the implications of this trend for the legal cannabis industry and the challenges it poses for businesses.

"mean we we recently learned so like if you wanted to the City of Oakland passed these just city tax laws that are five percent of gross receipts of sales so it's not just like 5% of your margin it's l..."

23
39:31 - 41:05
1:33 duration298 words

Brand Loyalty vs. Market Experimentation

David and Vincent explore consumer behavior in the cannabis market, discussing the balance between brand loyalty and the willingness to try new products. They explain how marketing strategies and budtender recommendations influence purchasing decisions, especially in a rapidly evolving industry.

"mm-hmm do you find that um people are very brand loyal or do they just shop around and not care um I think people are pretty open to right there there is definitely brand loyalty like pop um Berkeley ..."

24
41:05 - 42:14
1:08 duration218 words

Navigating Market Shortages

David and Vincent discuss the challenges faced by cannabis brands due to market shortages and regulatory compliance. They reflect on the difficulties of maintaining product availability and the implications for both consumers and businesses in the cannabis industry.

"thing that we saw yeah so so July 1 was when they implemented phase 2 testing which essentially was around pesticides and potency and then people that couldn't pass it essentially were DQ'd from the m..."

25
42:14 - 43:40
1:26 duration277 words

Future of Cannabis Regulations

The founders speculate on the future of cannabis regulations in the U.S. They predict gradual legalization across states and the potential for federal changes, emphasizing the need for businesses to adapt to evolving legal landscapes while managing operational complexities.

"that sophisticated yet we're and I'm talking about the supply chain where you have people that do Co packing a co manufacturing or like create this stuff this IP yeah and then oftentimes if you don't ..."

26
43:40 - 45:05
1:24 duration247 words

The Role of Capital in Cannabis Growth

David and Vincent explore the challenges of securing capital in the cannabis industry, particularly in light of Canadian investments. They discuss the current M&A climate and the opportunities for smaller companies to thrive amidst larger corporate players.

"holding company that manages every other child company so it's there's there's a huge just cost of upkeep of your business as well on like a legal compliance standpoint security and it's just like lic..."

27
45:05 - 46:47
1:42 duration254 words

The Future Landscape of Cannabis

The discussion turns to the anticipated changes in the cannabis market over the next five years. David and Vincent share their thoughts on the potential for unlimited growth sizes in California and the importance of small growers maintaining their unique value propositions.

"one-acre cap you know right now if you're growing you have a one acre cap that you can grow in however people have doing stacking so they get a bunch of licenses to stack but once 2023 hits unlimited ..."

28
46:47 - 48:29
1:42 duration250 words

M&A Activity and Market Dynamics

David and Vincent analyze the current M&A activity in the cannabis sector, noting the influx of larger companies and the potential for market consolidation. They express concerns about the sustainability of smaller operators and the impact on the industry’s future.

"have the capitalization side and with such a small industry that's essentially ceding a lot of ownership to you know the capital markets through either Canadian companies or other bigger companies tha..."

29
48:29 - 49:49
1:19 duration210 words

Global Cannabis Trends

The founders discuss the international cannabis market, highlighting the rise of cannabis operations in countries like Canada and potential growth in Europe. They speculate on how global dynamics will influence local markets and the future of cannabis exports.

"operators that have built this you know industry and this movement mm-hmm I think you're also gonna see a lot more exporting globally you're always seeing contracts being made with Canada and other co..."

30
49:49 - 51:03
1:14 duration214 words

Media's Influence on Cannabis Perception

David and Vincent reflect on the role of media in shaping public perception of cannabis. They discuss the impact of figures like Elon Musk and the evolution of cannabis advocacy, noting the ongoing stigma and the importance of responsible representation in media.

"know joke about yes like your friends getting high but I think it I guess you know to a certain extent it's a strategy to raise awareness as well because that is what captures eyeballs yeah and and th..."

31
51:03 - 52:40
1:36 duration292 words

The Shift in Cannabis Advocacy

The conversation highlights the historical context of cannabis advocacy, tracing its roots back to medical use and the HIV community. David and Vincent emphasize the need for continued advocacy as the industry evolves and faces new challenges.

"as a STONER yeah but as we've been moving forward you know you the biggest news that we saw in the last month was Elon Musk taking a puff of one right and it's so it's starting to change you have one ..."

32
52:40 - 54:36
1:55 duration293 words

Cannabis as a Human Right

David articulates his belief that access to cannabis should be considered a human right. He discusses the natural origins of cannabis and its potential benefits, advocating for broader access and acceptance in society.

"or advertising out they'll shut you down if you try to advertise that you're selling weed and so yeah yeah so how do you grow influencer marketing so like basically having celebrities or like people e..."

33
54:36 - 55:36
1:00 duration183 words

Cannabis as a Human Right

David expresses his belief that cannabis is a biological plant and a human right, emphasizing its role in providing comfort and relief. He discusses the need for individuals to find outlets for introspection amidst the chaos of modern life, highlighting cannabis's potential for enhancing self-awareness.

"it's comforts from the right yeah it's not like someone you know made this and you know but I think what's crazy especially in the world we live in with so much hyper connectivity so much dress and li..."

34
55:37 - 56:11
0:34 duration115 words

Exonerations and Legalization Impact

Vincent shares insights on the positive effects of cannabis legalization in California, particularly regarding the exoneration of individuals previously convicted for cannabis possession. They discuss the broader implications for social equity and the need for reparative measures in communities affected by the war on drugs.

"be in the states it seems like most of the funding and the studies are happening here maps is a really good organization to follow they're the ones that are really pushing the the trials and they're y..."

35
56:12 - 57:44
1:32 duration257 words

Social Equity in the Cannabis Industry

The founders discuss the importance of social equity programs in the cannabis industry, highlighting their partnership with a social equity business. They explain how these initiatives aim to support individuals from disenfranchised communities and the challenges that still exist in providing adequate resources and funding.

"anymore yeah for kit for cannabis possession right and another thing that's great is there's a lot of cities that had stacks and stacks of medical cannabis convictions that were coming and just you kn..."

36
57:45 - 1:00:00
2:15 duration412 words

Challenges in Cannabis Business Funding

Vincent and David delve into the ongoing challenges of securing funding for cannabis businesses, particularly for those led by individuals from marginalized backgrounds. They discuss recent legislative efforts to support social equity programs and the need for comprehensive support systems to help these businesses thrive.

"operations up and running man it's so awesome yeah yeah there's definitely a lot more work that needs to be done like well there's a lot of that's funding right and so Senator Bradford just had a b12 ..."

37
1:00:00 - 1:01:03
1:03 duration198 words

Building Community in Cannabis

The conversation emphasizes the importance of community within the cannabis industry. David and Vincent reflect on their experiences and the need for collaboration among entrepreneurs to navigate the complexities of the market while supporting one another's growth.

"are trying and I think the the key and all of this is for the consumer to really recognize that when they're buying you know one of these or like even flow kana flow kana supports artisans small growe..."

38
1:01:04 - 1:03:41
2:37 duration458 words

Startup Wisdom for Cannabis Entrepreneurs

David and Vincent share valuable insights for aspiring cannabis entrepreneurs, drawing from their experiences in the industry. They discuss the significance of resilience, community building, and the lessons learned from startup culture, particularly from their time at Y Combinator.

"remember definitely the hole I'd do things that don't scale thing I we first started this we had a friend who basically ran like a pre-roll company that was distributing across California and prior to..."