I recorded an AMA! I had a blast shooting the shit with my friends Trenton Bricken and Sholto Douglas. We discussed my new book, career advice given AGI, how I pick guests, how I research for the show, and some other nonsense. My book, “The Scaling Era: An Oral History of AI, 2019-2025” is available in digital format now. Links below! * Stripe Press website: https://press.stripe.com/scaling * E-book: https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-Era-Oral-History-2019-2025-ebook/dp/B0F22SKW5Y/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0 * Print pre-order: https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-Era-Oral-History-2019-2025/dp/1953953557/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0 𝐄𝐏𝐈𝐒𝐎𝐃𝐄 𝐋𝐈𝐍𝐊𝐒 * Transcript: https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/scaling-ama * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dwarkesh-podcast/id1516093381 * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4yso3gE93kHV6vGZw2cgtp?si=c1dfbe07b63343f8 To sponsor a future episode, visit https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/advertise 𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐀𝐌𝐏𝐒 0:00:00 - Book launch announcement 0:04:57 - AI models not making connections across fields 0:10:52 - Career advice given AGI 0:15:20 - Guest selection criteria 0:17:19 - Choosing to pursue the podcast long-term 0:25:12 - Reading habits 0:31:10 - Beard deepdive 0:33:02 - Who is best suited for running an AI lab? 0:35:16 - Preparing for fast AGI timelines 0:40:50 - Growing the podcast
Excerpt from my conversation with Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3oBack9 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3S5g2YK
Full Episode: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U (August 2023) Transcript: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/dario-amodei Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3rZOzPA Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3QwMXXU Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp
Full Episode: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U (August 2023) Transcript: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/dario-amodei Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3rZOzPA Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3QwMXXU Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp
Dario Amodei is the CEO of Anthropic, the company that created Claude. Amanda Askell is an AI researcher working on Claude's character and personality. Chris Olah is an AI researcher working on mechanistic interpretability. Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep452-sb See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. *Transcript:* https://lexfridman.com/dario-amodei-transcript *CONTACT LEX:* *Feedback* - give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey *AMA* - submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama *Hiring* - join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring *Other* - other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact *EPISODE LINKS:* Claude: https://claude.ai Anthropic's X: https://x.com/AnthropicAI Anthropic's Website: https://anthropic.com Dario's X: https://x.com/DarioAmodei Dario's Website: https://darioamodei.com Machines of Loving Grace (Essay): https://darioamodei.com/machines-of-loving-grace Chris's X: https://x.com/ch402 Chris's Blog: https://colah.github.io Amanda's X: https://x.com/AmandaAskell Amanda's Website: https://askell.io *SPONSORS:* To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: *Encord:* AI tooling for annotation & data management. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/encord-ep452-sb *Notion:* Note-taking and team collaboration. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/notion-ep452-sb *Shopify:* Sell stuff online. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/shopify-ep452-sb *BetterHelp:* Online therapy and counseling. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/betterhelp-ep452-sb *LMNT:* Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-ep452-sb *OUTLINE:* 0:00 - Introduction 3:14 - Scaling laws 12:20 - Limits of LLM scaling 20:45 - Competition with OpenAI, Google, xAI, Meta 26:08 - Claude 29:44 - Opus 3.5 34:30 - Sonnet 3.5 37:50 - Claude 4.0 42:02 - Criticism of Claude 54:49 - AI Safety Levels 1:05:37 - ASL-3 and ASL-4 1:09:40 - Computer use 1:19:35 - Government regulation of AI 1:38:24 - Hiring a great team 1:47:14 - Post-training 1:52:39 - Constitutional AI 1:58:05 - Machines of Loving Grace 2:17:11 - AGI timeline 2:29:46 - Programming 2:36:46 - Meaning of life 2:42:53 - Amanda Askell - Philosophy 2:45:21 - Programming advice for non-technical people 2:49:09 - Talking to Claude 3:05:41 - Prompt engineering 3:14:15 - Post-training 3:18:54 - Constitutional AI 3:23:48 - System prompts 3:29:54 - Is Claude getting dumber? 3:41:56 - Character training 3:42:56 - Nature of truth 3:47:32 - Optimal rate of failure 3:54:43 - AI consciousness 4:09:14 - AGI 4:17:52 - Chris Olah - Mechanistic Interpretability 4:22:44 - Features, Circuits, Universality 4:40:17 - Superposition 4:51:16 - Monosemanticity 4:58:08 - Scaling Monosemanticity 5:06:56 - Macroscopic behavior of neural networks 5:11:50 - Beauty of neural networks *PODCAST LINKS:* - Podcast Website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast - Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr - Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 - RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ - Podcast Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 - Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/lexclips *SOCIAL LINKS:* - X: https://x.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://instagram.com/lexfridman - TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://facebook.com/lexfridman - Patreon: https://patreon.com/lexfridman - Telegram: https://t.me/lexfridman - Reddit: https://reddit.com/r/lexfridman
Here is my conversation with Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. Dario is hilarious and has fascinating takes on what these models are doing, why they scale so well, and what it will take to align them. 𝐄𝐏𝐈𝐒𝐎𝐃𝐄 𝐋𝐈𝐍𝐊𝐒 * Transcript: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/dario-amodei * Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3rZOzPA * Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3QwMXXU * Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp --- I’m running an experiment on this episode. I’m not doing an ad. Instead, I’m just going to ask you to pay for whatever value you feel you personally got out of this conversation. Pay here: https://bit.ly/3ONINtp --- 𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐀𝐌𝐏𝐒 00:00:00 - Introduction 00:01:00 - Scaling 00:15:46 - Language 00:22:58 - Economic Usefulness 00:38:05 - Bioterrorism 00:43:35 - Cybersecurity 00:47:19 - Alignment & mechanistic interpretability 00:57:43 - Does alignment research require scale? 01:05:30 - Misuse vs misalignment 01:09:06 - What if AI goes well? 01:11:05 - China 01:15:11 - How to think about alignment 01:31:31 - Is modern security good enough? 01:36:09 - Inefficiencies in training 01:45:53 - Anthropic’s Long Term Benefit Trust 01:51:18 - Is Claude conscious? 01:56:14 - Keeping a low profile
Here is my conversation with Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. Dario is hilarious and has fascinating takes on what these models are doing, why they scale so well, and what it will take to align them. 𝐄𝐏𝐈𝐒𝐎𝐃𝐄 𝐋𝐈𝐍𝐊𝐒 * Transcript: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/dario-amodei * Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3rZOzPA * Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3QwMXXU * Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp --- I’m running an experiment on this episode. I’m not doing an ad. Instead, I’m just going to ask you to pay for whatever value you feel you personally got out of this conversation. Pay here: https://bit.ly/3ONINtp --- 𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐀𝐌𝐏𝐒 00:00:00 - Introduction 00:01:00 - Scaling 00:15:46 - Language 00:22:58 - Economic Usefulness 00:38:05 - Bioterrorism 00:43:35 - Cybersecurity 00:47:19 - Alignment & mechanistic interpretability 00:57:43 - Does alignment research require scale? 01:05:30 - Misuse vs misalignment 01:09:06 - What if AI goes well? 01:11:05 - China 01:15:11 - How to think about alignment 01:31:31 - Is modern security good enough? 01:36:09 - Inefficiencies in training 01:45:53 - Anthropic’s Long Term Benefit Trust 01:51:18 - Is Claude conscious? 01:56:14 - Keeping a low profile
Dario Amodei thinks we are just a few years away from “a country of geniuses in a data center”. In this episode, we discuss what to make of the scaling hypothesis in the current RL regime, how AI will diffuse throughout the economy, whether Anthropic is underinvesting in compute given their timelines, how frontier labs will ever make money, whether regulation will destroy the boons of this technology, US-China competition, and much more. 𝐄𝐏𝐈𝐒𝐎𝐃𝐄 𝐋𝐈𝐍𝐊𝐒 * Transcript: https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/dario-amodei-2 * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dario-amodei-the-highest-stakes-financial-model-in-history/id1516093381?i=1000749621800 * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2ZNrpVSrgZMlDwQinl20Ay?si=9D4aG1l7S-2wzLsiILRLIg 𝐒𝐏𝐎𝐍𝐒𝐎𝐑𝐒 - Labelbox can get you the RL tasks and environments you need. Their massive network of subject-matter experts ensures realism across domains, and their in-house tooling lets them continuously tweak task difficulty to optimize learning. Reach out at https://labelbox.com/dwarkesh - Jane Street sent me another puzzle… this time, they’ve trained backdoors into 3 different language models — they want you to find the triggers. Jane Street isn’t even sure this is possible, but they’ve set aside $50,000 for the best attempts and write-ups. They’re accepting submissions until April 1st at https://janestreet.com/dwarkesh - Mercury’s personal accounts make it easy to share finances with a partner, a roommate… or OpenClaw. Last week, I wanted to try OpenClaw for myself, so I used Mercury to spin up a virtual debit card with a small spend limit, and then I let my agent loose. No matter your use case, apply at https://mercury.com/personal-banking To sponsor a future episode, visit https://dwarkesh.com/advertise. 𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐀𝐌𝐏𝐒 00:00:00 - What exactly are we scaling? 00:12:36 - Is diffusion cope? 00:29:42 - Is continual learning necessary? 00:46:20 - If AGI is imminent, why not buy more compute? 00:58:49 - How will AI labs actually make profit? 01:31:19 - Will regulations destroy the boons of AGI? 01:47:41 - Why can’t China and America both have a country of geniuses in a datacenter? 02:05:46 - Claude's constitution
Full Episode: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U (August 2023) Transcript: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/dario-amodei Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3rZOzPA Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3QwMXXU Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp
Full Episode: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U (August 2023) Transcript: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/dario-amodei Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3rZOzPA Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3QwMXXU Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp
Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. (August 2023) Full Episode: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U Transcript: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/dario-amodei Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3rZOzPA Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3QwMXXU Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp
Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. (August 2023) Full Episode: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U Transcript: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/dario-amodei Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3rZOzPA Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3QwMXXU Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp
Excerpt from my conversation with Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3oBack9 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3S5g2YK
Excerpt from my conversation with Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3oBack9 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3S5g2YK
Dario Amodei (Anthropic CEO) #ai
Dario Amodei (Anthropic CEO) #ai
Dario Amodei (Anthropic CEO) #ai #openai #claude #chatgpt
Dario Amodei (Anthropic CEO) #ai #openai #claude #chatgpt
Dario Amodei (Anthropic CEO) #ai
Dario Amodei (Anthropic CEO) #ai
Excerpt from my conversation with Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3oBack9 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3S5g2YK
Excerpt from my conversation with Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3oBack9 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3S5g2YK
Excerpt from my conversation with Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3oBack9 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3S5g2YK
Excerpt from my conversation with Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3oBack9 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3S5g2YK
Excerpt from my conversation with Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3oBack9 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3S5g2YK
Excerpt from my conversation with Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3oBack9 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3S5g2YK
Excerpt from my conversation with Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3oBack9 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3S5g2YK
Excerpt from my conversation with Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic. Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Nlkk3glap_U Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3oBack9 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3S5g2YK