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a16z Podcast | For the Billions of Creatives Out There
39 segments available
with Brian Koppelman (@briankoppelman), Marc Andreessen (@pmarca), and Sonal Chokshi (@smc90) The writer-showrunner is a relatively new phenomenon in TV, as opposed to film, which is still a director-driven enterprise. But what does it mean, as both a creative and a leader, to “showrun” something, whether a TV show… or a startup? Turns out, there are a lot of parallels with the rise of the showrunner and the rise of founder-CEOs, all working (or partnering) within legacy systems. But in the day to day details, really “owning” and showunning something — while also having others participate in it and help bring it to life — involves doing the work, both inside and out. This special, almost-crossover episode of the a16z Podcast features Billions co-showrunner Brian Koppelman — who also co-wrote movies such as Rounders and Ocean’s 13 with his longtime creative partner David Levien — in conversation with Marc Andreessen (and Sonal Chokshi). The discussion covers everything from managing up — when it comes to executives or investors sharing their “notes” aka “feedback” on your work — to managing down, with one’s team; to managing one’s partners (or co-founders)… and especially managing yourself. How to tame those irrational emotions, that ego? Ultimately, though, it’s all about unlocking creativity, whether in writing, coding, or other art forms. Because something surprising happened: Instead of TV going the way of music à la Napster with the advent of the internet, we’re seeing the exact opposite — a new era of “visual literature”, a “Golden Age” of television and art. Are artists apprenticing from other artists virtually, learning and figuring out the craft (with some help from the internet, mobile, TV)? And if we really are seeing “the creative explosion of all time”, what does it take to explode our own creativity in our work, to better run the shows of our lives? All this and more in this episode of the a16z Podcast… as well as some Billions behind-the-scenes (and light spoilers, alerted within!) towards the end.
Segments Timeline
The Crossover of Creativity
In this unique crossover episode, Sonal introduces Brian Koppelman, co-showrunner of 'Billions' and co-writer of iconic films like 'Rounders' and 'Ocean's 13'. The conversation explores the intersection of creativity in film, television, and startups, setting the stage for a deeper discussion on the business of creativity.
"hi everyone welcome to the a 6 & Z podcast I am sonal today we have a unique sort of crossover episode with writer director producer Brian Koppelman who with this partner David Levine also wrote some ..."
Creative Expression and Success
Marc Andreessen and Brian Koppelman delve into the process of creative expression and the similarities between the tech industry and entertainment. They discuss how both fields require a blend of creativity and business acumen, highlighting the importance of nurturing creative entrepreneurs.
"creativity of business then going into how to speak to power speak to one's team speak to Co partners as well as managing the emotions and ego around all that and finally ending on some specific momen..."
The Journey of 'Rounders'
Brian shares the story behind 'Rounders', detailing the challenges faced during its creation and the eventual cult status it achieved. He reflects on the importance of doing the work and trusting the creative process, emphasizing that success often comes long after the initial effort.
"with this what was the first project that you and I think it was you and your partner David yes first project that you've you that you and David will respond for creating selling and making it with ro..."
Choosing Passion Over Stability
In discussing the central theme of 'Rounders', Brian explains the protagonist's struggle between pursuing passion and choosing a stable life. This dilemma resonates with many creatives, illustrating the tension between personal fulfillment and societal expectations.
"from the beginning it was only about us getting in a room and we're going separately in our individual rooms before we would come back together and doing the work itself trusting that if we found a wa..."
Researching the Craft
Brian recounts the early stages of writing 'Rounders', including the research process that involved immersing themselves in the poker scene. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the world they were writing about to create authentic characters and narratives.
"him to pursue and that's the central question I mean the movie has a lot of sort of heightened dramatic you know you you want to choose a heightened dramatic construct in which to hide the theme becau..."
The Discipline of Writing
Brian discusses the discipline required for writing, sharing how he and David committed to daily writing sessions despite their other jobs. He highlights the importance of creating a routine and environment conducive to creativity, even in less-than-ideal circumstances.
"see people make when they decide they have to do some kind of artistic work is they think it means they have to grab that identity so hard that has to shut out the rest of their identity but what I fo..."
Navigating Professional Expectations
The conversation shifts to the pressures of professional expectations in creative fields. Brian reflects on the balance between external feedback and maintaining creative integrity, advocating for the importance of working in private before sharing ideas with the world.
"to be the sister of Adam Horowitz the Beastie Boys Rachel was a great executive and I knew somebody who knew her and we we met met with her and we said what should we do someone's willing to pay us $5..."
The Value of Private Work
Brian explains why he and David prefer to develop their ideas privately before pitching them. He discusses the potential pitfalls of external input during the creative process and how it can dilute their original vision.
"side of it that and and I'll say this the expected value of not doing the work is zero like there's no there's no question about the evie of just thinking I'd like to write and not writing well if you..."
The Toxicity of Creative Blocks
Brian opens up about his personal struggles with creative blocks and the emotional toll it can take. He emphasizes the importance of pursuing one's creative passions with rigor and discipline to avoid the bitterness that can arise from unfulfilled aspirations.
"returning to that for some reason because I've already let them inside this process I have a question about this though because you know when we go back to this idea of what you had the confidence to ..."
Finding Courage in Creativity
In this segment, Brian discusses the courage required to pursue meaningful work and the transformative power of creativity. He shares how dedicating time to creative endeavors can positively impact one's overall well-being and outlook on life.
"be kept down it dies and like any other kind of death there's toxicity that's attached to that and as in the toxicity I knew would leech out and would actually make you know leech on to the people tha..."
Redefining Success
Brian concludes by reflecting on how he measures success in his creative journey. He emphasizes the importance of personal fulfillment and the joy of the creative process over external validation, encouraging others to focus on their own standards.
"immediately makes me feel better and then I immediately don't care about the rest of that stuff easier to say of court you might think easier to say because we've had this this success but I but I kno..."
Overcoming Rejection in Hollywood
Koppelman recounts his early experiences in Hollywood, detailing the rejections he faced while trying to sell his screenplay for 'Rounders.' He highlights the lessons learned from these setbacks and how they shaped his understanding of the industry. This segment illustrates the resilience required to navigate the creative landscape and the importance of perseverance.
"the state so do you ever suffer from writer's block no because I rituals like morning could you describe that yeah I do I do I meditate every morning and I do morning pages every morning so what certa..."
Finding the Right Director
In this segment, Koppelman shares the story of how he and his partner secured John Dahl as the director for 'Rounders.' He discusses the risks they took to ensure they worked with someone they trusted and respected. This narrative highlights the importance of collaboration and the proactive steps creators must take to protect their vision.
"your bartley i mike there are my kids have instructions to burn upon my you know decades or centuries later they skate publishers at the notebooks I can't no I can't moves no I've read chem who's note..."
Navigating Creative Ownership
Koppelman explores the complexities of creative ownership when working with studios and networks. He draws parallels between being a showrunner and a founder-CEO, emphasizing the need to manage relationships with investors and collaborators. This segment delves into the challenges of maintaining creative control while fostering a collaborative environment.
"question for me for the rest of my career about who knows who knows what so then it's bought by Miramax and which is something I guess I used to say with pride and Dave and I were just the writers wer..."
The Importance of Communication
In this segment, Koppelman discusses the critical role of communication in the creative process. He shares insights on how to effectively manage feedback from executives and ensure that all voices are heard. This discussion highlights the balance between taking constructive criticism and staying true to one's artistic vision.
"a meeting with John Dahl and they were like well how are we gonna do it we'll send him this script the letter that we write and we'll just wait around and they had all just competed to sign us right s..."
Building Relationships in the Industry
Koppelman reflects on the significance of building relationships within the entertainment industry. He shares personal anecdotes about his upbringing and how it shaped his ability to interact with powerful figures. This segment emphasizes the importance of confidence and authenticity in fostering successful collaborations.
"the movie and they went yeah that allowed us to be on set every day because when you're the one who brought the director in and you have this relationship plus John it has no ego and he knew we unders..."
Managing Creative Dynamics
Koppelman discusses the dynamics of managing a creative team, emphasizing the need to empower actors and crew while maintaining a clear vision for the project. He shares strategies for creating a positive work environment and ensuring that everyone feels valued. This segment provides valuable insights into effective leadership in creative endeavors.
"baby like well I'll tell you it's it's it's so analogous to the way a founder and we'll work with the investors right the VC the board it it's up to you to manage that relationship it's up to you to s..."
Navigating Feedback and Notes
In this segment, Koppelman addresses the challenges of receiving feedback from network executives and how to handle it constructively. He shares lessons learned from past experiences and emphasizes the importance of maintaining a collaborative spirit while ensuring that the creative vision remains intact.
"have the answers to their problems yeah and that you're comfortable in your own skin I mean so much of what I'm talking about is an ingrained sense of comfort in your own skin is being able to just co..."
Navigating Feedback Dynamics
Koppelman shares insights on handling feedback from executives and team members, explaining the common reactions to notes and how to maintain a positive working relationship. He uses the example of Artie from 'Larry Sanders' to illustrate effective communication strategies that ensure everyone feels heard while preserving creative vision.
"like that can apply to anybody does I think that applies across the board you know how I coach people how to do that from Larry Sanders I don't even know you must watch it immediately so already the p..."
Balancing Gratitude and Authority
In this segment, Koppelman reflects on the balance between being grateful for opportunities and maintaining authority as a showrunner. He discusses the importance of having a healthy relationship with collaborators, where open dialogue allows for constructive criticism without fear of damaging relationships.
"it was what I telling people was like that's the baseline like if you can if you can just do that you're better than most and then and then to your point if on top of that you can actually consider an..."
The Challenge of Defining Success
Koppelman addresses the challenge of defining success in creative projects, particularly in the context of film and television. He emphasizes the need for showrunners to articulate their vision and navigate external perceptions, using examples from his work on 'Rounders' to illustrate the complexities of storytelling and audience expectations.
"the part that I always struggle with here and I wonder if a lot of people struggle with this is it I always had this belief that competency is a thing that will always get you ahead the result will sp..."
Crafting a Pilot: Lessons Learned
Koppelman shares his experiences in crafting a pilot episode, detailing the importance of adhering to time constraints and making decisive choices during production. He explains how delivering a well-structured pilot can streamline the feedback process and establish credibility with networks, ultimately leading to a successful series.
"when I lay this out example out it'll there'll be parallels to your world so a pilot gets greenlit they give you this amount of money to go make the pilot and you're in they've already approved the sc..."
The Evolution of Showrunners
In this segment, Koppelman explores the evolution of the showrunner role in television, contrasting it with traditional film production. He discusses the historical shift that has allowed writers to take on leadership roles and the implications of this change for the industry, referencing the book 'Difficult Men' to highlight key figures in this transformation.
"tell you we gave them this cut and and and and we're realistic people so we knew all the flaws and the things we would want to reshoot before it would go on the air but you know they're gonna make it ..."
Embracing Control and Collaboration
Koppelman reflects on the importance of embracing control as a showrunner while also being open to collaboration. He discusses how past experiences have shaped his approach to leadership, emphasizing the value of being comfortable with both authority and vulnerability in creative partnerships.
"question of the relationship how do you establish a relationship with with that show your that makes them you're a professional we can trust and by the way as you know all you want is a founder show a..."
Embracing Control and Collaboration
Brian Koppelman discusses the importance of gaining control over the creative process as a writer and showrunner. He reflects on his experiences in film production, emphasizing the balance between taking responsibility for the final product and collaborating with talented directors like Steven Soderbergh. Koppelman highlights how comfort with failure and mistakes enables writers to embrace leadership roles in creative projects.
"is quite different but you know as you know David might directed movies and we produced movies so for us it was a quite a natural thing because we've already rounders was as good an experience as you ..."
Navigating the Writers Room Dynamics
In this segment, Koppelman explains the dynamics of managing a writers room, where collaboration is key but not a democracy. He describes how showrunners guide the creative process while allowing writers to contribute ideas. Koppelman emphasizes the importance of maintaining a clear vision for the show while fostering a collaborative environment that encourages creativity.
"say this when we work with Steven Soderbergh we are so glad to have his voice if he's directing them with man what a thrill to work with a genius right and what a thrill to have Soderbergh make us bet..."
Elevating New Talent in the Industry
Koppelman shares insights on how new writers can rise within the industry, using the example of Adam Pearlman, who quickly advanced from a producer to a co-executive producer. He discusses the importance of recognizing talent and providing opportunities for young writers to contribute meaningfully to the creative process, ultimately shaping the future of the show.
"right we've been talking a lot about kind of managing up hierarchically so to speak now turning at the other direction like managing down in the writers room you've got like a lot of writers working w..."
The Changing Landscape of Filmmaking
Reflecting on the evolution of the film industry, Koppelman contrasts the production of 'Rounders' with contemporary filmmaking. He discusses the challenges of making mid-budget films today and how the landscape has shifted, making it harder to produce films like 'Rounders.' Koppelman also explores how the rise of streaming platforms has changed the way stories are told and consumed.
"this so if you're really great if if you're if you're great in the way that our show requires right someone made kill it on another show and just not kill it on ours I mean the other thing is they get..."
The Golden Age of Television
Koppelman and Andreessen discuss the unexpected flourishing of television in the digital age, contrasting it with the music industry's struggles. They explore the notion of a 'creative explosion' in TV, where the quality of content continues to rise despite the increasing number of shows. Koppelman posits that this may be due to a new generation of artists learning from each other, leading to a golden age of storytelling.
"have no idea um I do know that what I know is that well I think it would resemble a movie that I love and that launched many careers which is margin call but whereas rounders was a fourteen five I thi..."
Building a Strong Creative Partnership
Koppelman reflects on his long-term partnership with David Levien, discussing the dynamics of their equal partnership. He shares insights on how mutual respect and understanding of each other's strengths contribute to their successful collaboration, emphasizing the importance of emotional intelligence in partnerships.
"see it I was thinking my answer to Mark's question I'm time a can watch this movie gully boy and it's a Bollywood movie that's produced by NAS but the to me the point is that technology is democratizi..."
Navigating Creative Differences
In this segment, Koppelman explains how he and Levien handle creative disagreements. He stresses the importance of prioritizing the partnership over individual ego, advocating for a collaborative approach where both partners feel valued and heard, which ultimately enhances their creative output.
"who work you admire and so that's all hard work in life right it's the same thing in a marriage or any kind of a any kind of kind of a partnership but it's about all of us even the most rational smart..."
The Importance of Trust in Collaboration
Koppelman discusses the significance of trust in creative partnerships. He illustrates how building trust allows for open communication and decision-making, enabling partners to navigate challenges effectively while maintaining a focus on the project's success.
"version the deadlock which is know let's do it your way okay now we have very composedly right there'll be e-mails back and forth about a thing in and editing where one of us laughing ID and the other..."
Meditation as a Tool for Creative Clarity
Koppelman shares his personal experience with meditation and its impact on his creativity and emotional management. He explains how meditation helps reduce anxiety, allowing for clearer thinking and problem-solving, and discusses its growing popularity among successful creatives.
"very easy and I see a lot of people fall into the trap of trying to argue well I look for it by the way I think about is I look for as many chances as I can to let him make the decision right and then..."
Transcendental Meditation and Creative Process
In this segment, Koppelman elaborates on Transcendental Meditation, describing its simplicity and effectiveness in enhancing creativity. He recounts his journey into meditation, highlighting its benefits in managing anxiety and fostering a conducive environment for creative thinking.
"force out the thoughts as you said it require you to be introspective or require you'd focus on your breathing Trane's limitation all you're doing is sort of allowing this mantra to be said over and o..."
Bob Roth and Transcendental Meditation
Koppelman introduces Bob Roth, the head of the David Lynch Foundation, and discusses the significance of Transcendental Meditation in the creative process. He highlights how Roth's work aims to provide meditation to children and those with post-traumatic stress, showcasing the broader impact of meditation on creativity.
"firing again but right that's what makes sense to me and so who's Bob Bob Roth runs David Lynch foundation David Lynch foundation is like at the center of transmittal meditation Lynch had decided if D..."
Character Development in Billions
Koppelman reflects on the character development process in the show Billions, particularly focusing on the female and transgender characters. He emphasizes the importance of making characters feel real and smarter than the writers, which enhances the storytelling experience.
"not introspection like my journaling is definitely the a certain kind of intersection serves me but meditation is like the calming of the thoughts or the the stilling of it or that just it's just a re..."
Taylor's Ambition and Testing Morality
In this segment, Koppelman discusses the character of Taylor in Billions, exploring themes of ambition and morality. He explains the necessity of testing characters' morals to understand their true nature, setting the stage for Taylor's journey in the upcoming season.
"some light spoiler alerts particularly from the last and early seasons so if you haven't seen them already you've been warned I have to ask this question because you know that scene from as good as it..."
Music Choices in Billions
Koppelman shares insights into the music selection process for Billions, detailing how he and David Levien choose tracks that enhance the narrative. He discusses a specific scene where music plays a crucial role in portraying character emotions and setting the tone.
"archetype actually both that trailers transgender and that you have this essential Universal archetype in every organization tell me how you think about tale as a character well yet tailors just the m..."
The Joy of Collaboration
Wrapping up the podcast, Koppelman expresses the joy of collaborating with others in the creative process. He reflects on the mutual fascination with storytelling and the connections formed through shared work, emphasizing the importance of these relationships in his creative journey.
"Marnie's been with the show from the very beginning she Internet Naiya majority of them of the show from from the start and are really and truly our creative partners they're the guardians of the tone..."