
28 segments available
Nature is the ultimate complex system, of course — but with today’s technology, it’s now provided us with an “incredible toolkit” of different molecules that material scientists can treat like Legos to make some really interesting products. One of those is a protective layer for fruits and vegetables that extends shelf life and freshness. Because all produce is seasonal, it’s perishable — so there’s a limited geographical radius around which it can travel… whether by land, sea, or air. How does this change what food we sell, buy, eat… taste? How does it affect smallholder farmers both in the United States and in the developing world — where there’s no real infrastructure, yet alone for a cold-storage supply chain? And finally, what are some of the most interesting advances in the interdisciplinary field of materials science right now and up next: Is it finally time for these “hard”ware companies to be more software-like? All this and more (and unfortunately, some puns too!) on this episode of the a16z Podcast with Apeel founder and CEO James Rogers and a16z partners Malinka Walaliyadde and Sonal Chokshi. Will tech reshape the food-map of the world?
In this segment, the hosts introduce the episode focused on Apeel, a company utilizing nano-scale material science to enhance the freshness and shelf life of fruits and vegetables. They discuss the implications of this technology on grocery shopping, farming practices, and the broader food supply chain.
"hi everyone welcome to the a six in Z podcast today's episode is at one of our newest portfolio companies which is applying nano scale material science to fruit and vegetables in this episode we cover..."
James Rogers, CEO of Apeel, explains the innovative process behind their product, which uses uneaten plant materials to create a protective layer for produce. This segment details how these materials are extracted and applied to fruits, enhancing their shelf life without altering taste.
"not ap PE al we like our puns well it's really appealing and interesting the investment memo that I wrote up was full of puns I actually spend extra time thinking about the pitch the graphs on their s..."
The discussion shifts to the challenges faced by strawberries and other delicate fruits in agriculture, particularly regarding pesticide use. The hosts explore how commercial farming practices can lead to increased pesticide application, impacting both the environment and consumer health.
"them into powders so they're lightweight they're low-cost to distribute and then we ship them to wherever we'd like to use them we reconstitute them in liquid form and we dip fresh produce into that s..."
This segment delves into the economic implications of perishability in agriculture, particularly for smallholder farmers. The hosts discuss how limited market access can lead to wasted produce and lost economic opportunities, emphasizing the need for better distribution systems.
"I mean strawberries are in a really difficult position and actually a lot of agriculture is this way in that the way that we grow food the way that nature produces things is through a systems approach..."
The conversation expands to the global dynamics of food supply, highlighting how perishability affects produce availability worldwide. The hosts discuss the seasonal nature of fruits and how transportation costs impact the ability to access fresh produce across different markets.
"benefit overall like when you think of the food these ecosystem as a whole like what does it really do for us so it's interesting you know it's a high-class problem and indeed you know preserving fres..."
James Rogers shares insights on how extending the shelf life of produce can significantly increase the economic returns for small farmers. This segment highlights the potential for smallholders to earn more by improving their market access and reducing waste.
"transport ability and transportation costs so for example in the case of avocados you know that the price of shipping a box of avocados to China is more expensive than the box whatõs itself because be..."
The hosts discuss the complex ecosystem of food production, including the roles of small farms, middlemen, and large agricultural operations. They explore the challenges faced by farmers, particularly in regions lacking infrastructure for cold storage and distribution.
"margins weight and they're just rot and that's the it's you know was said to me once the for fresh produce the tyranny of time and that really resonated with me because if you think about the position..."
In the closing segment, the hosts address the issue of food waste in the United States, emphasizing the significant resources invested in food production. They highlight the importance of improving food preservation techniques to reduce spoilage and enhance sustainability.
"consumer now there's some kind of side alleys in there and kind of different niches but that's kind of the general organization the problem with some of these they just don't have that electricity you..."
The discussion explores how innovative technologies can help developing countries bypass traditional infrastructure challenges. By using solutions like drones and new materials, farmers can improve their produce's shelf life without needing extensive cold storage systems.
"about you know throwing away a third if you call that working now as you start talking about trying to be able to reduce losses which can be you know 80 90 percent of a harvest in the developing world..."
Rogers and the hosts discuss how new technologies can create entirely new systems for food preservation and distribution, bypassing outdated methods. This innovation is likened to how companies like Lyft and Uber have disrupted traditional taxi services.
"and be mobile first in this case like in the case of zipline and drones and Ronda it's literally leap frogging but there's a lack of roads and medical infrastructure yeah I literally was thinking on t..."
The conversation delves into the concept of using natural molecules as building blocks for innovative food preservation technologies. Rogers explains how material scientists can leverage nature's existing systems to create effective solutions for extending the shelf life of produce.
"general when I think about how innovation happens oh yeah I mean it's exactly I think about it as well you know one of the ways I look at our product as well as infrastructure and a packet you've got ..."
Rogers discusses the complexities of developing new chemical solutions for agriculture. He contrasts traditional chemical approaches with nature's efficient systems, emphasizing the difficulty of creating targeted solutions without harming beneficial organisms.
"existing supply chain so although it's you know difficult and challenging for particular reasons to deliver these technologies into into developing countries the white space or the opportunities are a..."
The segment focuses on the idea of combinatorial innovation, where existing natural molecules are repurposed to create new structures for food preservation. Rogers highlights the historical context of such innovations and their potential impact on modern agriculture.
"technologies that we employ in agriculture I think are what I would so I've kind of gone through this kind of mental exercise of what is a chemical and what's a what is a molecule and that's a really ..."
Rogers emphasizes the importance of a multidisciplinary team in developing new food preservation technologies. He explains how collaboration among scientists from various fields is essential for overcoming the challenges of creating effective and innovative solutions.
"generally interfere with are really valuable processes that's why they've stuck around for so long and so they're used by many many many different types of life-forms and so it's incredibly challengin..."
Rogers explains the concept of treating natural materials like Legos, where scientists can combine different molecules to create new structures. He emphasizes the complexity behind this process, which requires a multidisciplinary team of experts in chemistry, biochemistry, and engineering to innovate effectively.
"is true of beauty products like being able to layer on layers of oils or it's the same kind of thing with skin and preservation because skin is perishable skin is very fresh actually if either the num..."
The discussion shifts to the challenges faced in material science, particularly the lengthy iteration cycles required for research and development. Rogers shares insights on how his team overcomes these hurdles by developing new techniques and tools to accelerate the understanding and application of materials.
"let these things dry together will they form a structure that could give me some really interesting problems when you say that that way it's a beautiful simple of a simpler explanation of what you're ..."
Rogers elaborates on the necessity of creating custom tools and systems to enhance the efficiency of material characterization and prototyping. He highlights the importance of having a feedback mechanism in the research process to improve iteration cycles and increase the probability of success in material innovations.
"analytical chemistry how do we then combine these things in different ways to form interesting structures that's material science how do we analyze these things that's you know more than the physics r..."
The conversation explores how modern technology, such as Arduino and Raspberry Pi, enables scalable solutions in material science. Rogers discusses how these tools facilitate rapid prototyping and data collection, allowing for more efficient experimentation and innovation in food preservation technologies.
"that's a water bottle knowing down to the molecule what it's made out of why it has the properties it has and how you could impact those properties by changing what the water bottle is made it's not l..."
Rogers reflects on the interdisciplinary nature of material science, emphasizing the collaboration required across various fields to drive innovation. He discusses the historical context of material advancements and how they shape technological development, highlighting the potential for future breakthroughs.
"overcome that I mean you can't bypass it all together so a number of members of my team you know spent their PhD basically learning different techniques technique development to basically access new u..."
The segment focuses on the exciting future of material science, particularly in relation to flexible electronics and battery technology. Rogers discusses how advancements in these areas could revolutionize multiple industries, underscoring the importance of material science as a core enabler of new technologies.
"characterizing these systems so when you have that infrastructure for characterization or rapid prototyping do you then make a trade-off and your ability to then scale things because then you're not u..."
Rogers emphasizes the critical role of material science in technological innovation, drawing parallels between historical material advancements and current opportunities. He discusses how understanding and combining available materials can lead to significant breakthroughs, particularly in food preservation and other applications.
"have agreed with you you know five six years ago yeah but with basically they have been of frankly the Arduino unit we've really been able to scale this I mean and 3d printing so I mean all of our tim..."
The discussion shifts to the transformative potential of advancements in battery technology. Rogers highlights how improvements in battery storage and efficiency could impact various sectors, from consumer electronics to renewable energy, and the ongoing quest for innovation in this critical area.
"other things we would not have been able to do this more than eight eight years ago probably I started in material science as well and and and I eventually moved on to more to more of the software wor..."
Rogers concludes by discussing the vast opportunities within material science, particularly in relation to food and agriculture. He reflects on the interdisciplinary challenges and the potential for groundbreaking innovations that could redefine how we approach material applications in everyday life.
"me is material science has been fundamental to us as a species look at how we've designed our ages a stone age next eel age right silicon age we define our development as a species by what material se..."
Rogers highlights the potential impact of advancements in battery technology on various industries. He discusses the importance of government funding in material science and the need for innovation in energy storage solutions that could revolutionize everything from drones to virtual reality.
"because material science is generally or is such an interdisciplinary field that's exactly I love about it so much if I could go back and do school all over I would do material science and the challen..."
Exploring the future of additive manufacturing, Rogers envisions a world where advanced 3D printing technology allows for local manufacturing of complex structures. He discusses the integration of material science with robotics and chemistry to create fully functional devices, potentially transforming production methods.
"lab some right one of the things that's really interesting about material science is unlike a lot of the other disciplines maybe because it is cross-disciplinary he does the one where I still think a ..."
Rogers shares his excitement about the future of grocery stores, where extended shelf life could allow for a greater variety of produce to reach consumers. He emphasizes the importance of genetic diversity in crops and how technology can enable smallholder farmers to compete in the market.
"example I think of is this initiative a lot of people from NASA to Autodesk that I've been working on which is bringing 3d printing to be able to like recreate entire new structures in space so that y..."
The conversation shifts to how advancements in food technology can democratize access to diverse produce globally. Rogers discusses the potential for improved transportation and shelf life of crops, allowing consumers to enjoy a wider range of fruits and vegetables, regardless of geographical constraints.
"is the same value proposition for a small organic grower in the United States as it is for a small holder farmers in the developing world same thing with an organic farmer in the US and one crop that ..."
Rogers concludes by envisioning a future where technology reshapes the global food map, allowing for the efficient distribution of perishable goods. He reflects on the significance of this transformation in making time less of a barrier in food accessibility, highlighting the potential for a more interconnected world.
"ends and this is a theme that I love but the other thing that you know earlier you mentioned how you can do a map of all the fruit around the world and map the times and they're perishability and it r..."