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Write Like Wall Street’s Best | Michael Mauboussin | How I Write Podcast
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Sign Up for "Writing Examples" and Learn From The Best Writing of All Time: https://www.writingexamples.com Perhaps the best-kept secret of any writer is the ability to find inspiration in unconventional places. And that’s Michael Mauboussin in a nutshell. Investing, business, reading, writing, luck, skill — name a topic he’s passionate about, and he’s found a way to make money from it in his writing. How? By subverting “The Curse of Knowledge.” With his decades-long career on Wall Street, you’d think that reading Michael’s work would be like trying to learn Latin on the fly. But the opposite is true. “I put my arm around the reader, and we gaze off into the world and say, “Let’s talk about what we see. Let’s make this concrete and interesting.” No stuffy professionalism. No robotic jargon. While many of us writers see the ignorance of a reader as a handicap, Michael sees it as an opportunity. And as a result, he’s become a billboard for how to build a career around who you truly are and what you’re actually interested in. In this episode, you’ll learn how to do the same. Come learn tactical writing and life instruction from one of Wall Street’s best and brightest. SPEAKER LINKS: Twitter: https://twitter.com/mjmauboussin Website: https://www.michaelmauboussin.com/ Books: https://www.michaelmauboussin.com/books WRITE OF PASSAGE: Want to learn more about the next class for Write of Passage? Click here: https://writeofpassage.com/ PODCAST LINKS: Website: https://writeofpassage.com/how-i-write Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv TIMESTAMPS: 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:40 Writing is understanding 00:03:30 Paradox of skill 00:05:20 Storytelling 00:06:10 Curse of knowledge 00:07:35 Writing style 00:13:40 Wisdom of crowds 00:19:55 Gathering domain expertise 00:24:20 Michael's career 00:36:00 Research process 00:38:40 Finding new things 00:41:00 Finding your edge as a writer 00:42:25 Outlining 00:45:15 Cormac McCarthy 00:51:45 World of synthesis 00:58:00 Learning by doing 01:00:25 Editing process 01:02:30 Injecting personality ABOUT THE HOST: I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible.
Segments Timeline
The Curse of Knowledge
Michael Mauboussin discusses the 'curse of knowledge' that often hinders smart individuals from writing effectively. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the reader's perspective and how ignorance can be an opportunity for writers to provide insights that enhance the reader's investment process. This segment sets the stage for Mauboussin's approach to writing, which is rooted in empathy and clarity.
"What makes smart people bad writers is this curse of knowledge. It's almost like I put my arm around the reader. Then we say, let's talk about what we see. That to me is how I think about basica..."
Writing as Understanding
In this segment, Mauboussin explains that effective writing is fundamentally about understanding. He shares his belief that writing requires a deep comprehension of the subject matter, which is built through research and learning. This foundational understanding is crucial for clear communication, especially in complex fields like investment.
"this conversation with Mr. Michael Mauboussin. The place I want to begin is you just started your 32nd year teaching security analysis at Columbia Business School. And what do you say to your stu..."
The Paradox of Skill
Mauboussin introduces the paradox of skill, illustrating how clear and simple communication can be enlightening for both writers and readers. He emphasizes the effort required to distill complex ideas into accessible formats, highlighting the importance of conveying underlying concepts rather than just technical details.
"the answer is it's research and going back and making sure I understand the foundations, poking the spots of weakness and trying to get into some depth in terms of what's going on. And by the wa..."
The Role of Storytelling
This segment focuses on the significance of storytelling in writing, particularly in the investment world. Mauboussin discusses how numbers and analyses tell a story that guides understanding and actions. He stresses the need for writers to grasp foundational principles to communicate effectively.
"that's really what we're after and we're trying to communicate and write. The history of that class goes back to writing because Ben Graham taught that class, right? It's an amazing story, yeah. H..."
Concrete Communication
Mauboussin elaborates on the importance of concrete communication in writing. He uses the iceberg analogy to explain that effective writing requires a solid foundation of knowledge that may not be visible to the reader. He advocates for clarity and empathy in writing to ensure that complex ideas are accessible to all audiences.
"to me that's a big part of it. And it's easy, I'll just say in the investment world is an example. Lots of people use things like multiples of earnings or multiples of cash flow to value things,..."
Balancing Sophistication and Simplicity
In this segment, Mauboussin discusses the challenge of writing for a diverse audience, including elite investors. He emphasizes the need to retain sophistication while simplifying complex ideas. The goal is to make writing interesting and accessible without sacrificing depth.
"empathy for a reader who doesn't have that same depth and communicate to them so that as some novice or somebody who definitely doesn't know as much about the topic as you do that they can still..."
Classic Style in Writing
Mauboussin reflects on Steven Pinker's concept of classic style in writing, which emphasizes peer-to-peer communication. He advocates for making ideas concrete and relatable, avoiding jargon and acronyms to enhance understanding. This approach aims to engage readers at all levels of expertise.
"simplicity even for the people at the top say you're writing for Jim Simons or somebody like that, that even they want that sort of simplicity? Oh yeah. I mean, that's the challenge. I mean, that..."
Integrating Sports into Writing
In this segment, Mauboussin shares how his passion for sports influences his writing. He draws parallels between skill acquisition in sports and the writing process, emphasizing the importance of practice and intuitive performance. This analogy highlights the balance between analytical thinking and creative expression.
"think the way that you transcend from the fairly sophisticated person. If it's something new that's cool for them to something that's someone that's not maybe completely sophisticated because th..."
Skill Acquisition and Writing
Mauboussin discusses the concept of skill acquisition in writing, likening it to training in sports. He emphasizes the importance of deliberate practice and feedback in developing writing skills. This segment reinforces the idea that effective writing requires both analytical preparation and intuitive execution.
"things that I've admired about your writing is you love sports. And you've been able to basically pull sports into your work. It's funny, I feel a lot of that with golf. So for example, I was wi..."
Understanding Market Efficiency
In this segment, Mauboussin delves into the concept of market efficiency, explaining its relevance to writing and communication. He discusses how understanding diverse perspectives and aggregating information can enhance clarity in writing. This exploration ties back to the broader themes of synthesis and effective communication.
"is more of a practical style. So it's almost a practical style would be teacher to student. So classic style would be, as I described, as sort of peers looking into the world, finding and descri..."
The Wisdom of Crowds Explained
Michael Mauboussin delves into the concept of the wisdom of crowds, discussing how diverse groups can often arrive at better answers than individuals. He outlines the conditions necessary for this phenomenon to occur: diversity, aggregation, and incentives. This segment highlights the relevance of these principles in understanding market efficiency and their implications for writing and communication.
"up over and over and over again. And I think it's a good testament to how deeply you can mine a worthy idea for years, for decades. For sure. And I mean, let's take those two ideas because you're..."
Market Efficiency and Writing Insights
Mauboussin connects the principles of market efficiency to the writing process, arguing that just as there are inefficiencies in markets, there are also opportunities for writers. He emphasizes that gathering domain expertise can lead to unique insights, countering the belief that everything worth saying has already been said. This segment encourages writers to explore their curiosities and share their findings.
"that's interesting to communicate to readers. The Grossman, Stiglitz thing, this is, again, we're getting into the weeds a little bit but- I actually would love for you to very briefly explain th..."
Increasing Returns in Economics and Writing
In this segment, Mauboussin discusses the concept of increasing returns in economics, illustrating how it applies to writing and the evolution of ideas. He references historical economists and highlights the importance of understanding the context and development of ideas over time. This perspective encourages writers to synthesize existing knowledge and contribute new insights based on changing circumstances.
"And I'm sure you see it over and over again in your work that you've been doing this for decades now and you still find new things to say that you hadn't seen before. And I would bet that Bezos ..."
The Role of Learning in Writing
Mauboussin emphasizes the importance of continuous learning as a foundation for effective writing. He discusses how great teachers are often great learners and how this principle applies to writing. By sharing what they've learned, writers can provide valuable insights to their audience. This segment reinforces the idea that knowledge acquisition is crucial for producing meaningful content.
"Let me ask just a super basic Joe man off the street question. I'll even do an accent for it. Michael, what is it that you really do for a living? Why do people hire you? It's a good question. I ..."
Editing and the Evolution of Ideas
In this segment, Mauboussin shares his experience with editor Lawrence Gonzalez, highlighting the transformative power of constructive feedback. He discusses the importance of understanding the evolution of ideas and words in writing. By being mindful of language and its historical context, writers can enhance their clarity and impact. This segment underscores the value of collaboration and learning in the writing process.
"you want to share it with the world. Tell me about this guy, Lawrence Gonzalez. You say he is got this old school sensibility about him. So let's start there. Well, I first met Lawrence in probabl..."
Understanding the Evolution of Words
In this segment, Mauboussin explores the etymology of words like 'innovation' and 'inspire', revealing how their meanings have shifted over time. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the historical context of language to enrich writing. By tracing the evolution of these terms, he illustrates how language reflects societal changes and encourages writers to delve into the origins of the words they use.
"I should just be more mindful. I should be more mindful of the words that I'm using. I should be more mindful of where these things came from. And I'll just say, by the way, the other thing I was ..."
The Value of Historical Context in Writing
Michael Mauboussin shares his passion for understanding the intellectual evolution of ideas and the historical context behind them. He discusses how knowledge of past thinkers, like John Burr Williams, can enhance current writing and thought processes. This segment underscores the importance of historical awareness in developing a deeper understanding of contemporary topics and enriching one's writing.
"a positive connotation? Another word is the word inspire, inspire. Okay, so what does inspire mean? In spirit, in spirit. Okay, well, the same spirit in Hebrew, ruach, wind, then Yahweh, Yahweh, w..."
Personal Connections to Writing
Mauboussin reflects on his personal journey as a writer, discussing how his reading preferences shape his writing style. He acknowledges that not all celebrated writers resonate with him, highlighting the subjective nature of literary appreciation. This segment emphasizes the importance of finding one's unique voice and style in writing, influenced by personal tastes and experiences.
"I spend a lot of time looking now at ancient Greek. Every day I'll look up something, and right now it's probably my biggest source of paradigm shifting ideas in my life. Look, when I think about..."
Navigating Research and Procrastination
In this segment, Mauboussin candidly discusses his struggles with research, noting how it can sometimes lead to procrastination. He shares insights on how to maintain integrity in research while avoiding rabbit holes, emphasizing the need for focus and direction. This segment provides valuable advice for writers on balancing thorough research with effective time management.
"it's a funny thing. So what kind of writers are the ones I click with? What kind of writers do I not click with? And of course, I'm going to naturally try to, all of us are amalgamations of diff..."
The Interconnectedness of Ideas
Mauboussin illustrates how exploring a topic in depth often leads to new questions and ideas, referencing Nassim Taleb's approach to writing. He discusses how his own work has evolved from previous projects, highlighting the importance of building on past knowledge to create new insights. This segment emphasizes the iterative nature of writing and the value of continuous exploration.
"Yeah, I wish when you say research, basically if you follow the thread of what I tend to write about or our team tends to write about, it's usually stuff that I feel like I need to know more abo..."
Finding Your Edge as a Writer
Michael Mauboussin offers advice on how writers can find their unique edge, drawing parallels between writing and investing. He stresses the importance of having interesting ideas and communicating them effectively. This segment provides practical tips for aspiring writers on how to stand out in a crowded field by focusing on originality and clarity.
""All my books were born out of the ribs of my previous book." So he's always following this same core idea of risk and how we think about risk wrong. But he starts with Fooled by Randomness, whi..."
The Role of Editors in Writing
In this segment, Mauboussin emphasizes the critical role of editors in the writing process. He advocates for seeking editorial guidance to enhance clarity and structure, especially for those new to writing. This segment highlights the collaborative nature of writing and the importance of feedback in refining one's work.
"To me, there are two key aspects. One is to do work that is interesting to whether it's research or have an observation or an insight that's interesting. And look, it is true that a lot of thing..."
Outlining for Effective Writing
Mauboussin discusses his outlining process, contrasting it with a more spontaneous writing approach. He explains how outlining helps him maintain flow and coherence in his writing, ensuring that each section builds on the previous one. This segment provides insights into the planning phase of writing and the importance of structure in effective communication.
"Tell me about your process for outlining. You do it very deliberately. I am a little bit less of a planner. For me, the way that I write is, I generally find some sort of one-liner or some story..."
Lessons from Cormac McCarthy
In this segment, Mauboussin shares his experience meeting acclaimed novelist Cormac McCarthy. He reflects on McCarthy's brilliance, extensive knowledge, and the necessity of being a voracious reader to become a great writer. This segment highlights the influence of literary giants on aspiring writers and the importance of continuous learning in the craft of writing.
"usually in the outline is where I usually do most of my killing, turns out. That I'll say, this is an idea I think is really interesting. I was actually thinking about this even today that I was..."
The Divine Gift of Writing
Mauboussin describes McCarthy's perspective on writing as a divine process, where ideas flow naturally. He contrasts this with his own experience, acknowledging the challenges of writing fiction compared to nonfiction. This segment explores the notion of writing as both a craft and an innate talent, highlighting the dedication required to excel.
"would go to a lot of the scientific meetings and he would hang out with a lot of scientists talking about science. And yet when you read the books, he would write, of course, whether that permeate..."
Crafting a Mission Statement
In this segment, Mauboussin discusses McCarthy's approach to writing a mission statement for the Santa Fe Institute, showcasing McCarthy's creative process. He shares a memorable line from the statement that reflects a welcoming attitude towards unconventional ideas, illustrating the importance of originality and creativity in writing.
"Well, you had mentioned that it was almost like he was channeling the divine or something. That would be my sense is that we had a conversation about this one time, and he sort of said, "The idea..."
The Challenge of Complex Writing
Mauboussin reflects on his own writing challenges, particularly with complex topics like market analysis. He emphasizes the need to guide readers through familiar concepts before introducing new ideas, illustrating the importance of clarity and structure in writing. This segment serves as a valuable lesson for writers tackling intricate subjects.
"this idea that we're going to be very indulgent of sort of stuff that's out there a little bit, which I love. It's great. Have you had moments in your career where you wrote something and you loo..."
Synthesis in Writing
Exploring the concept of synthesis, Mauboussin discusses how combining ideas from different sources can lead to original insights. He encourages writers to synthesize existing knowledge rather than solely seeking originality, highlighting the potential for financial and intellectual rewards in the world of business analysis.
"that are relevant to the world. So that was one. I want to just pause you there because I think that is a very good formula for thinking about writing. Which is you're going to write a piece that..."
Learning Through Experience
Mauboussin shares his journey of evolving as a writer, emphasizing the importance of learning by doing. He reflects on his past experiences of voracious reading and writing, contrasting them with his current approach of deep engagement with topics. This segment underscores the value of hard work and continuous improvement in writing.
"for me at least, very, very difficult. In the philosophical tradition. There's a long lineage of people who study other philosophers for decades at times. And they study this philosopher, maybe t..."
The Neuroscience of Learning
In this insightful segment, Mauboussin draws parallels between neurobiology and industry development, illustrating how both processes involve exploration and pruning. He explains how understanding these patterns can enhance writing and analysis, providing a framework for recognizing recurring themes in various fields.
"that comes from zero to one. Where did that come from? It really can be a systematic process of getting your name out there as a writer. 100%. And the other thing about markets, there are two asp..."
The Evolution of Reading and Writing
Mauboussin reflects on his evolution as a reader and writer, emphasizing the shift from quantity to quality in his reading habits. He discusses the importance of deep engagement with material and the desire to produce meaningful work, highlighting the transformative journey of becoming a dedicated writer.
"those synaptic connections that are not used. But it turns out that when you study this, this is one of the most efficient ways to learn about an environment. Try stuff out, use the stuff that w..."
The Grind of Writing
In this segment, Mauboussin discusses the hard work involved in writing, emphasizing the need for dedicated time blocks to achieve effective results. He shares insights into his writing process, including the importance of silence and focus, and reflects on the iterative nature of editing and refining written work.
"the future. But I wrote 50 articles in 50 days at a time where I would wake up and I'd just go, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And it's that same pruning process that you're talking. So I wanted t..."
The Editing Process
Mauboussin elaborates on his editing process, highlighting the collaborative nature of refining written work with his partner. He discusses the importance of structure, flow, and clarity in writing, and shares a memorable quote from McCarthy about knowing when a piece is finished, illustrating the high standards of elite writers.
"usual difference between draft two to draft four or five? What are the big themes in terms of how your writing evolves? Yeah, I mean, by the way, this is something where we don't really have, and..."
The Power of Personal Stories
Michael shares how personal stories can enhance writing, making complex ideas more accessible. He recounts an experience related to his faith and the importance of providing relatable examples to connect with readers, emphasizing that storytelling can bring dry topics to life.
"One of the things I've really been enjoying working on, I've needed to work on this in my own writing, is injecting my own personality into later drafts. I find that at first, my mental horsepow..."
Breaking the Mold in Finance Writing
In this segment, Mauboussin critiques the writing style prevalent in the finance industry, noting that many writers suppress their personalities. He argues that embracing one's voice and experiences can significantly enhance the quality of writing, making it more engaging and impactful.
"It is a great story. You got the Washington Redskins trashcan over there. It's probably because they only remember only read the first three pages. Anyway, that might be it. Right? But that's a gr..."