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Building an Engineering Team by Ammon Bartram and Harj Taggar
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Former YC Partner and founder of TripleByte Harj Taggar, along with his cofounder Ammon Bartram discuss a topic startups often struggle with most: finding and hiring the key engineers who will build your product. You can find the lecture transcript and slides here: https://www.startupschool.org/videos/44 Learn more at https://www.startupschool.org/
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The Importance of Building a Strong Team
Ammon Bartram and Harj Taggar introduce the critical topic of assembling a successful engineering team for startups. They emphasize that hiring the right team is paramount for the success of any company, especially in today's competitive landscape.
"as a slides of loading there there is no topic that should occupy your minds more as you build your company then bring it on the team that's going to make your company successful as you move forward H..."
Understanding the Hiring Challenge
Harj Taggar shares insights from his experience as a former YC Partner and co-founder of TripleByte, highlighting that hiring engineers is often the biggest challenge for startups. He discusses the data-driven approach they have developed to tackle this issue effectively.
"Hajin amin from triple byte YC alumnus are going to talk about building in today's day and age perhaps the key portion of that team the engineering team so please welcome harsh you're starting yeah ha..."
The Painful Reality of Hiring
Taggar warns about the difficulties of hiring, describing it as a painful and time-consuming process. He outlines the challenges founders face, including the need to prioritize hiring amidst other pressing startup tasks, and the emotional toll of rejection.
"hiring marketplace that's used by engineers to find new places to work Armen and I have gathered lots of data on what works well when it comes to hiring engineers I've personally focused a lot on spen..."
The Hiring Funnel Explained
Harj Taggar introduces the concept of the hiring funnel, which consists of three key stages: sourcing, screening, and closing. He emphasizes the importance of understanding this funnel to streamline the hiring process and improve outcomes.
"going to start with then we'll talk about evaluating technical skills which are Mons gonna cover and then I'll finish up by talking through the process of making offers and closing which is getting pe..."
Sourcing Strategies for Engineers
Taggar outlines effective strategies for sourcing engineering talent, starting with personal networks. He explains why leveraging personal connections is crucial, especially for early-stage startups, and how it can lead to better hiring outcomes.
"it's like incredibly painful process because for many reasons which I'll describe in detail the first is it takes a lot of time like it takes a lot of time just to convince someone good to eat and hav..."
The Power of Personal Networks
In this segment, Taggar emphasizes the value of personal networks in hiring. He provides actionable advice on how to effectively reach out to contacts and make the ask, highlighting the importance of persistence and thoroughness in the process.
"was giving his presentation I was talking to Jeff about this back there there's a lot of similarities between sales and hiring and actually there's a lot of similarities between sales and hiring and f..."
Creating a Sourcing Party
Taggar suggests organizing team events, known as sourcing parties, to brainstorm potential hires. He explains how to structure these events to maximize participation and generate leads for engineering positions.
"prepared for all of this and as you're thinking through building a hiring process I encourage you to think about this as a funnel that you're creating that has three parts to it the top of the funnel ..."
Utilizing Hiring Marketplaces
Harj Taggar discusses the rise of hiring marketplaces as a modern solution for finding engineering talent. He compares these platforms to dating sites, explaining how they facilitate connections between companies and candidates.
"getting the offer accepted I'm going to start by talking through some strategies for building the top of your hiring funnel these are the five places I'd recommend that you look for making engineering..."
Navigating the Competitive Landscape
In this segment, Taggar addresses the competitive nature of hiring marketplaces, where demand for engineers exceeds supply. He shares strategies for standing out and effectively attracting candidates in this crowded space.
"so we start with personal networks in my opinion personal networks are the best place to hire especially when you're early and making your first few hires by far and the reason is anytime you're decid..."
Leveraging LinkedIn and GitHub
Taggar explains how to effectively use LinkedIn and GitHub for hiring, emphasizing the importance of personalized outreach. He advises against a high-volume approach and encourages targeted messaging to improve response rates.
"you're a big company you can mostly focus on answering just the first question because they're your large enough there's enough people there's enough teams that it's likely that someone one team somew..."
Job Boards as a Resource
In this segment, Taggar discusses the role of job boards in the hiring process, specifically mentioning platforms like Stack Overflow and AngelList. He highlights their significance for startups looking to attract engineering talent.
"often founders still don't really use their personal networks effectively when they're hiring and I think there's two reasons for this the first is they don't use a process to exhaustively search thro..."
Mastering LinkedIn and GitHub for Hiring
In this segment, Harj Taggar discusses the importance of using LinkedIn and GitHub as primary resources for finding engineers. He emphasizes the need for personalized outreach rather than a high-volume approach, advising startups to research candidates thoroughly and send targeted messages that demonstrate genuine interest. Taggar also highlights the effectiveness of email communication over direct messages on these platforms.
"you have when you're thinking about hiring the third source that I recommend you go to and Mehcad is LinkedIn and github and these are effectively the biggest online directory of engineers in the worl..."
Job Boards: Quality vs. Quantity
Harj Taggar explains the pros and cons of using job boards like Stack Overflow and AngelList for hiring engineers. While job boards can save time in posting, they often attract underqualified applicants, leading to a time-consuming screening process. He advises startups to craft unique and engaging job listings that reflect their company culture and technical challenges to attract better candidates.
"in them as an individual as opposed to sending a spam message but that doesn't mean the message has to be super long I still advise keeping it short and concise just the key fact is there's proof that..."
The Role of In-Person Meetups
In this segment, Harj Taggar shares his thoughts on the effectiveness of in-person meetups for recruiting engineers. He notes that while they can be a long shot, attending technical meetups can provide opportunities to connect with potential hires. Taggar suggests hosting meetups at your office to build a network of engineers, even if it doesn't lead to immediate hires.
"the internet are written by someone in a recruiting or marketing department that's using corporate boilerplate language that isn't going to especially using an appeal to an engineering audience right ..."
When to Hire a Technical Recruiter
Harj Taggar discusses the right timing for startups to consider hiring a technical recruiter. He recommends waiting until you have at least one engineer on board and ensuring a consistent hiring cadence before bringing in external help. Taggar emphasizes the importance of founders understanding the hiring process themselves to better assess recruiters and effectively pitch their company.
"future so it's worth the definite worth considering okay now I'm going to talk about when you should think about using recruiters truth is there's there's not really any hard rule on when you should h..."
Types of Recruiters and Their Roles
In this segment, Harj Taggar outlines the different types of recruiters available to startups, including contract recruiters, in-house recruiters, and agency recruiters. He explains the roles each type plays in the hiring process and offers advice on starting with a contract recruiter focused on sourcing candidates before considering a full-time hire.
"themselves come in roughly three types you have contract recruiters who you pay by the hour and they can do anything from just : messaging on LinkedIn all the way to doing initial phone screens this i..."
Building Your Engineering Team: Key Takeaways
Harj Taggar summarizes the essential strategies for building an engineering team in a startup. He emphasizes leveraging personal networks, engaging in targeted outreach on platforms like LinkedIn and GitHub, and treating job boards and meetups as supplementary processes. This approach helps create a pipeline of potential candidates while gaining valuable experience in pitching to engineers.
"an engineering team would be start by making sure you've exhausted your personal Network spend lots of time taking people out for lunch coffee making the ask to you experiment with the hiring marketpl..."
The Interview Process Breakdown
Ammon Bartram outlines the structured interview process for hiring engineers, detailing the steps from initial candidate screening to technical phone screens and on-site interviews. He emphasizes the importance of assessing both technical skills and cultural fit, providing insights into how companies can effectively evaluate candidates.
"candidate background judge culture fit and make sure they're interested in the company then a technical phone screen and so this would be between 30 minutes and an hour with an engineer usually solvin..."
Understanding Candidate Drop-off Rates
Bartram discusses the statistics surrounding candidate drop-off rates during the hiring process, revealing that companies make offers to only 2-8% of applicants. He highlights the variability in screening processes across companies and the implications for hiring success, including the high retention rates of those hired.
"know they they as a group make a hire no hire decision some stats on this companies make offers to between two and eight percent of all of the engineers who apply but interestingly exactly where in th..."
The Noise in Interviews
Bartram addresses the inconsistency and noise present in the interview process, introducing the concept of inter-rater reliability among interviewers. He shares findings that suggest interviewers agree on candidate evaluations at a rate comparable to random chance, raising concerns about the effectiveness of traditional interview methods.
"interviewers they do and an interesting point is that no one passes all their interviews so there are not magical engineers who receive offers after every interview they do and yeah this gets at what ..."
The Case for Trial Periods
Bartram explores the idea of trial employment periods as a potential solution to improve hiring accuracy. He notes that while trial periods could provide better insights into a candidate's fit, only 20% of engineers are willing to participate, leading to a preference for traditional interviews among top talent.
"on trilobite and so what that means is this this is the statistical measure of the extent to which different interviewers tend to agree about which candidates are best and it's on a scale of zero to o..."
Reducing Interview Noise: Key Strategies
Bartram introduces seven strategies to reduce noise in the interview process, starting with the importance of defining the skills that matter for the company. He emphasizes that without clear direction, interviewers may focus on irrelevant skills, leading to inconsistent evaluations.
"trial periods atashi engineers and yeah I think this is actually a great idea it is almost certainly much more you know if you can work with someone for a week you can almost certainly get a much sens..."
The Importance of Structured Interviews
Bartram advocates for structured interviews as a means to improve hiring outcomes. He contrasts structured interviews with free-form ones, explaining how structured formats lead to better predictive accuracy and reduce biases in candidate evaluations.
"points so point one the first way to reduce the noise in an interview is to decide what skills matter for your company there are a lot of different ways that a programmer can be skilled so you know so..."
Defining Evaluation Criteria
Bartram stresses the need for interviewers to have defined criteria for evaluating candidates. He explains how structured interviews can mitigate biases and improve consistency in decision-making, ensuring that all candidates are assessed fairly based on relevant skills.
"so my first piece of advice here is that you should go through and ask yourself these questions before you start hiring us the first is I need to clarify these are these are the axes along which we se..."
Using Better Interview Questions
Bartram shares tips for crafting effective interview questions that avoid requiring leaps of insight. He suggests using multi-step problems that allow candidates to demonstrate their skills progressively, thereby reducing the likelihood of misjudgment based on a single difficult question.
"being bad in relevant areas okay point number two second way you can reduce noise in interviews is to use structured interviews so to define this a free-form unstructured interview is an interview whe..."
Avoiding Specialized Knowledge
Bartram advises against asking questions that require specialized knowledge unless it is critical for the role. He emphasizes the importance of focusing on fundamental programming concepts to ensure a fair assessment of all candidates.
"things that this is completely opposite to all of the available data on this structure knickers are simply more predictive they are better at predicting success on the job and there's no excuse not to..."
Time Management in Interviews
Bartram concludes with a guideline for interview timing, recommending that interviewers allocate three times the amount of time it takes to solve a problem for the candidate. This approach ensures that candidates have adequate time to demonstrate their abilities without feeling rushed.
"and there's actually some great research on this it ends up that a lot of the sort of worst biases that can come up in interviews are made worse when the interviewer is trying to make a global decisio..."
Multi-Step Problem Solving in Interviews
Harj Taggar discusses the importance of multi-step problems in technical interviews. He emphasizes that such problems allow candidates to demonstrate their skills progressively, making it easier for interviewers to provide hints and gauge the candidate's abilities. This approach helps avoid overwhelming candidates with single, complex questions that could lead to failure.
"kind of strangely if someone knows that obviously it's you know that's the solution if they don't know it they may well struggle then think about it and go down some some rabbit hole and so that's exa..."
Crafting Effective Interview Questions
Taggar shares insights on crafting effective interview questions, suggesting that interviewers should aim for questions that take about three times longer to solve than they would for the candidate. He highlights the importance of asking multiple questions to reduce noise and ensure a consistent signal regarding a candidate's abilities.
"the portion of the problem you know some portion of your your people your your candidates will be familiar with us others well in that will introduce noise so in general I think it's good to stick wit..."
Ignoring Credentials to Reduce Bias
In this segment, Taggar advises interviewers to ignore candidates' credentials during technical assessments. He explains that while credentials can indicate potential, they often introduce bias that can cloud the evaluation of a candidate's actual programming skills. This practice helps identify undervalued talent in the market.
"ignore credentials during your interview so by credential I mean things like I you know did someone study at a well-known school or has someone worked at a well-known company and I'm not claiming that..."
Understanding False Negatives in Hiring
Taggar discusses the concept of false negatives in the hiring process, where capable candidates fail interviews. He stresses the importance of recognizing that many who do not pass interviews can still be productive in other roles. This awareness can help startups avoid missing out on valuable talent.
"undervalued people in the market and as a start-up if you can you know get if you're good at finding those people that is a big advantage okay point five is that you want to think about the false nega..."
Maximizing Candidate Skills in Interviews
In this segment, Taggar emphasizes the need to focus on the maximum skill each candidate brings to the table rather than their average or minimum skills. He encourages interviewers to be mindful of the fact that everyone can struggle with certain questions and to avoid letting one poor performance overshadow a candidate's overall potential.
"setting studying hiring bars um one of my goals would apply to actually just get to a point where you can actually measure this rate because cuz no one knows what it is no one knows what the false neg..."
Enhancing Candidate Experience
Taggar highlights the importance of creating a positive candidate experience during interviews. He explains that a stress-free environment can lead to better performance and a higher likelihood of candidates accepting job offers. He shares tips for reducing stress, such as allowing candidates to use their own tools and providing breaks.
"just because they look stupid on one portion of the interview okay a final last point here is that you want to think about the candidate experience when designing an interview you know you want to you..."
Avoiding Hazing in Interviews
In this segment, Taggar warns against hazing practices in interviews, which can create a negative experience for candidates. He stresses the importance of maintaining a respectful and supportive interview environment to avoid damaging the company's reputation and candidate morale.
"opportunity and the final point I you want to avoid hazing so this is this is rare but results in some of the worst horror stories of interviews this is where you know I mean who takes on the role of ..."
Setting the Right Hiring Bar
Taggar concludes by emphasizing the need to set appropriate hiring standards. He advises startups to focus on the skills that matter most for their organization and to design structured interviews that accurately assess those skills, ensuring that they can still attract and hire top talent.
"better hires so just to summarize here i recommend that the first step you follow is to decide what skills matter for your organization and make sure that you're screening on things that you actually ..."
Hiring Strategies for Early-Stage Startups
Taggar discusses specific hiring strategies for early-stage startups, emphasizing the importance of productivity and ownership in initial hires. He suggests that startups may need to prioritize getting things done over code quality in their first few hires to build momentum.
"are those are my my tips so far I think this all applies to both big and small companies so I'm gonna go over a few points here that I think are specific to let's say Series A and smaller companies so..."
Hiring Without Technical Expertise
In this final segment, Taggar addresses the challenges faced by non-technical founders when hiring technical talent. He provides strategies for evaluating candidates effectively, even when the interviewer lacks technical expertise, ensuring that startups can still find the right talent.
"very CCS focus or someone who's very you know web focused and there's no crisp answer here so we have plenty of examples of you know billion-dollar companies that have taken various routes here my per..."
Hiring Outside Your Expertise
Bartram provides strategies for hiring in areas where the founder lacks technical expertise. He suggests asking candidates to explain their answers in layman's terms, which can help assess their communication skills and depth of knowledge. This technique can be particularly useful for founders who need to hire engineers in unfamiliar domains.
"so you're you're a web developer and you're you need to hire an iOS engineer what do you do so what enters you can you sure you can use a stick neutral byte I will help you do that I you can call them..."
Mock Interview Exercise for Interviewers
Bartram introduces a mock interview exercise designed to improve interviewing skills. He encourages interviewers to role-play as candidates and intentionally give bad answers to highlight their own biases and limitations. This exercise aims to foster humility and awareness of the inherent noise in interviews, ultimately leading to better hiring decisions.
"but this works more broadly and the idea is that and you know interviewers tend to sniffily underestimate how noisy interviews are they they overestimate their own ability to distinguish to engineer s..."
Best Practices for Closing Candidates
Bartram outlines five best practices for startups to enhance their chances of successfully closing candidates. He emphasizes the importance of speed in the hiring process, training interviewers to create a positive candidate experience, and being prepared to discuss company culture in detail. He also advises involving team members and investors in the decision-making process to strengthen the offer.
"hardies gonna talk about closing and then we'll both answer questions okay I'm gonna wrap up here by going through best practices and point to optimize your chances of people actually accepting the of..."
Competing with Tech Giants for Talent
Bartram discusses how startups can effectively compete with larger tech companies like Google and Facebook for engineering talent. He highlights the unique learning opportunities and career progression available in startups, emphasizing that candidates can gain real decision-making experience and advance quickly in their careers. He also addresses the opportunity cost of choosing a startup over a larger, more stable company.
"the same with investors and in particular pick any investors you have who would be particularly good at closing that candidate so if they're on the fence about whether to leave a big company for your ..."
Mentorship in Startups vs. Big Tech
Bartram addresses concerns from new graduates about mentorship in startups. He argues that while some may believe they need to work at a big company like Google for proper training, startups can offer valuable mentorship opportunities if they have experienced engineers on their teams, allowing junior hires to learn best practices in a dynamic environment.
"that they won't get again and if it doesn't work out they can always go back to generic big company and final point this one specific to hiring more junior candidates talk about mentorship so one thin..."
The Importance of Background Checks
Bartram discusses the relevance of background checks in the hiring process for startups. He notes that while many startups do not prioritize background checks, they can be easily integrated into hiring processes. He emphasizes focusing on whether a candidate is a good fit for the company culture and role rather than solely on their background.
"so that's everything I think we're gonna open up for questions I will ask the questions about the topics we've covered you wanna come up like background things are things that rule out the candidate"
Evaluating Technical Skills
In this segment, Bartram shares insights on how non-technical founders can assess the technical skills of applicants. He suggests evaluating past work and portfolios as a way to gauge a candidate's capabilities, highlighting the importance of having a technical co-founder to assist in the hiring process.
"are things that rule out the candidate background background checks frankly most startups I know don't do them they're especially easy to do now though because you can integrate Checker in with your p..."
Blind Hiring Practices
Bartram explains the concept of background blind hiring, focusing on direct skills assessment rather than personality traits. He emphasizes the importance of separating technical assessments from cultural fit evaluations to make informed hiring decisions.
"yeah probably so the thing we focus on is background blind hiring so we focus very narrowly on just direct skills assessment rather than looking at other things that that correlate in our predictive s..."
Finding a Technical Co-Founder
Bartram discusses strategies for non-technical founders to find a technical co-founder. He emphasizes the importance of leveraging personal networks and seeking recommendations from trusted engineers to ensure the technical co-founder is skilled and a good fit for the startup.
"to make a global decision yep sorry back in the sunglasses [Music] that's the extreme version and I said you probably can't so you okay so the question is if you're a non-technical founder how can you..."
Building a Talent Pipeline from Universities
Bartram addresses the challenges startups face in creating a talent pipeline from universities. He acknowledges that while career fairs and sponsored events exist, they may not be practical for startups needing immediate hires, as larger companies often secure talent well in advance.
"good or not I think sort of Arlen's advice basically applies here they the most thing is the even if you use a friend or some that you know who is an engineer to talk to them and figure out they're go..."
Role-Playing for Interview Preparation
Bartram introduces a role-playing technique for interview preparation, where candidates intentionally make mistakes to allow interviewers to provide critical feedback. This method helps engineers receive honest critiques and improve their interviewing skills, fostering a culture of constructive feedback.
"investing too much time in that as a start-up and just to clarify big companies at this point make offers a full year in advance with large signing bonuses you know you deliver it a year in advance so..."
Assessing Hiring Success Rates
In this concluding segment, Bartram discusses the metrics of hiring success rates. He clarifies the statistics regarding employee performance and retention, emphasizing the importance of understanding the true success rate of hires and the factors that contribute to long-term employee success.
"you know what will happen is that they will point out legitimate flaws you'll be trying to give your best answer and they will point out things you said that are wrong or things that could be better a..."