"pod I always say is actually fundamentally dlg data LED growth so when you give away your free product what you want to get in exchange are two things one is the broader reach because free product spr..."

"nothing welcome to Lenny's podcast where I interview world-class product leaders and growth experts to learn from their hard-won experiences building and growing today's most successful products today..."

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"thank you Lenny for having me I'm so excited I'm excited as well I don't know if you know this but you have the very unique distinction of having two posts in my top 25 most read posts of all time and..."

"didn't expect reading it reach out to me let me know hey I read that for example I think Ravi he is also on your podcast I didn't know him personally one day he's just like hila I read that that's awe..."

"actually are having both they have a plg motion they have a sales team as well plg motion is perfect for lowering the barrier for more people to try broader the reach it's a kind of a volume kind of g..."

"I think eventually you need both cool that's kind of the way I've been seeing it like I did a few series on uh product LED like traditional product like growth companies slack and figment all those gu..."

"helpful just to explain like what is product like growth just simply because that people hear this term a lot and it'd be helpful just to understand it broadly and then also just like why is it so pop..."

"and more popular to pull on that thread a little bit more even to help people like visualize a product collect growth product what makes it product LED like there's a self-serve component is there any..."

"so I think the Key Properties also plg products think about it should have a very low barrier to entry usually it has a free version free trial you don't need to get get approval from your boss to use..."

"tool can you come back to me and allow me to see a demo of your product that means the the entry point to plg is cut off instead the first step is you need to either have a free product free trial som..."

"journey is very different from the sales user Journey like those are sometimes missing in company when they just begin to doing this and in those cases I think it's super helpful to maybe either find ..."

"when red flag basically they are not thinking about the entire thing through understanding the implication not only the free product it's really just a start you need to think about how to activate ho..."

"point I thought that was really interesting we talked about how every company probably should add a product-led growth piece but I think what you're also saying is actually not every company there are..."

"just imagine you are building uh you're selling kind of something on e-commerce side you need all of this right just in order for the B2B buyer to buy or software in plg motion you need to make all th..."

"so you talked about these two funnels one question is are they basically the same for almost every product or should you try to figure out what's like really unique about my funnel and then second is ..."

"last question on this first step of mapping out the funnel do you recommend people just get in front of a whiteboard and just sit together and like here's what it would be potentially if we added a pr..."

"to the next question which is just okay mapped out the funnel what do you do next if you don't have the foundational components you need to build all of that but if you kind of have something if you a..."

"and just like finding Leverage is a is a beautiful thing in in my mind so I always want to do that so when I think about Pica starting point one thing I actually do with a lot of my advisor clients as..."

"moment is because in early days if you add these friends right you begin to form some connection you can see interesting feeds you can interact with your friends and that's social interaction it's the..."

"and I imagine the way you got to that was you looked at at what point does retention improve if they got to a certain Milestone right is that roughly yeah exactly so there are how you can get to that ..."

"like two actions right it can be any of the two high value features the next step is actually you need to launch some experiments to try to get more people to do those high value action and you then s..."

"biggest opportunity uh usually activation commercial are two of the common starting places this episode is brought to you by ahrefs you probably know ahrefs as one of the leading all-in-one SEO tools ..."

"product LED acquisition is a great place to start if you your product is a collaboration software think about airtable and and like it's club figma right I as part of my workflow so I invite my team t..."

"B2B software because usually B2B softwares are not designed uh to really get you to use quickly historically a good example there are I think all the best prg companies they do an awesome job that's a..."

"picoa part the other more complicated paths I would say that's something you want to figure out activation and self-checkout a little bit and you want to have some reasonable user number and then inve..."

"definitely and I I would talk a little bit about retention expansion if using that's helpful yeah I know I didn't talk about that in the post and there are people asking hey do you plan to write anoth..."

"them so it's a very messy part but how I think about retention there are two steps one is how to build a habit in their usage pattern so that they are using this maybe every week every day like the th..."

"different moments how I how you can do that is really understand data understand usage and trigger a lot of the right conversation at the right moment to the right person and you can again a lot of si..."

"then from there I would say we begin to add more use cases that has a higher frequency let's like I mentioned right if your only come here once per month to check our investment it's very hard to reta..."

"start with maybe what's like gila's recommendations on like an initial stack or areas to explore in terms of tooling I I say there are two piece one is infra the other piece are some tools that are ki..."

"do they take the right action in a product versus the the nurture email marketing to his do I get them to read the article open the email I had 10 points to their lead score and their next step furthe..."

"really well structured is there anything else along the data or infrastructure piece that you want to touch on before we move on to hiring in the team I just want to go back to the point as I mentione..."

"trying to channel what uh listeners might be thinking right now and I imagine some people might be like what if I picked the wrong tool like I'm kind of stressed I have to do all this research I'm kin..."

"that audit is there a thing you would Point them to or I don't know blog course something to help them understand if they're doing it right or is it like bringing Gila on and and you need someone like..."

"well and we say AWS you mean a redshift I imagine yeah cool awesome okay final area that uh we have time for which is awesome which is around building your team so maybe just two questions here what i..."

"difference between these two one is dedicated we are going to dedicate full-time people to helping us grow yeah like say we talked about earlier let's say they're going to focus on activation yeah and..."

"to potentially expand and formalize so fundamentally I think you should should not only think about a prg team you should think about the prg org because plg is a motion uh it's cross-functional by Na..."

"got it and you're sharing a lot of org design verbally in the post virtual share obviously in the show notes you can actually see a diagram of what these look like to help kind of make it super clear ..."

"PM analysts and from there definitely you need some dedicated engineer you need a designer designer can be somewhat not dedicated in early days but engineer needs to be some sort of a user research su..."

"initial growth PM higher to your starting point next if we already decided activation right he's the biggest Focus era try to find some PM gross PM with that experience and if if like the conversion i..."

"and we'll link to all these okay favorite recent movie or TV show I watched a movie it's a sci-fi movie from China it's called the wandering Earth 2. it's by the famous author the scene Leo he's the a..."