All Segments
Harvard Professor: They’re Lying To You About Running, Breathing & Sitting! - Daniel Lieberman
40 segments available
If you enjoyed this episode, I recommend you check out my first conversation with Dr. Daniel Lieberman, which you can find here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujRwf1HdNjk 00:00 Intro 02:15 What do you do, and why do you do it? 03:24 Are we actually a good species? 05:26 Do our ancestors hold the answer to all our health needs? 07:47 Have we evolved to eat meat? 10:48 How did we learn to hunt and gather? 17:18 Have we evolved to breathe wrong? 19:43 Why do we sweat? 24:38 When did our brains get so big? 30:10 Why do we struggle to diet? 38:46 Modern-day mismatched diseases 42:56 Why did you write a book about food? 45:17 Has our culture moved too fast? 46:30 We've decided to live with diseases rather than prevent them. 50:28 The modern foods we eat have affected the way we look. 53:17 Is cancer a consequence of our modern society? 58:49 How our bodies store energy 01:05:38 The keto diet and fasting 01:09:59 Are we too comfortable as a society? 01:15:14 Puberty has changed, and we’re going into it earlier than ever before. 01:16:52 The dangers of sitting down all day like we do. 01:20:23 What should people take away most from this conversation? 01:24:31 The products we put on our bodies, are they toxic? 01:30:21 The last guest's question YouTube: You can purchase Daniel’s book, ‘Exercised: The Science of Physical Activity, Rest and Health’, here: https://amzn.to/3vRfrTO Get tickets to The Business & Life Speaking Tour: https://stevenbartlett.com/tour/ Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo Shop the Conversation Cards: https://thediary.com/products/the-cards Sponsors: Huel Bundle: https://try.huel.com/steven-bartlett
Segments Timeline
Understanding Mismatch Diseases
Daniel Lieberman discusses the concept of mismatch diseases, which arise from the disparity between our evolutionary adaptations and modern lifestyles. He highlights how chronic stress, obesity, and various cancers are linked to our current way of living, which is ill-suited to our biological heritage. Lieberman emphasizes the importance of physical activity and the consequences of a sedentary lifestyle, illustrating how our comfort-driven choices lead to health issues.
"cancer violence aggression obesity stress if you want to fix all your complex problems well this is controversial but the vast majority of the evidence suggests that Daniel liberman a Harvard Professo..."
The Role of a Harvard Professor
Daniel Lieberman introduces himself as a professor of human evolutionary biology at Harvard University. He explains his focus on understanding human evolution and its relevance to contemporary health issues. By studying the human body and its evolutionary history, he aims to address significant health challenges such as obesity, heart disease, and aggression, linking them to our evolutionary past.
"deal Daniel what is your job title I am a professor of human evolutionary biology at Harvard University and what does that mean it means I get to have a lot of fun um I study uh well my department stu..."
Are We a Fragile Species?
In this segment, Lieberman challenges the notion that humans are inherently fragile compared to other species. He discusses the evolutionary strengths of humans, particularly in endurance and adaptability. While acknowledging that we may not be as physically strong as some animals, he argues that our unique capabilities, such as long-distance running and omnivorous diets, have allowed us to thrive in diverse environments.
"in the sort of starting point of our stories and how began to we I'm thinking about farming Hunter Gathering um and all those things because when I look at human beings versus a lot of animals and you..."
The Evolution of Our Diet
Lieberman explores the evolution of human diets, emphasizing that humans have been omnivores for millions of years. He discusses the significance of meat consumption in our evolutionary history and how our dietary flexibility has enabled us to adapt to various environments. This segment highlights the complexity of our dietary needs and the implications of modern eating habits on health.
"we're thinking about our sort of evolutionary history and and the hunter gatherer tribes that still exist in the world I think I've fallen into the Trap of believing that all the answers we're looking..."
Hunting and Gathering: A Turning Point
This segment delves into the transition from foraging to hunting and gathering, marking a pivotal moment in human evolution. Lieberman explains how early humans adapted their diets and lifestyles to include hunting, which played a crucial role in our development. He discusses the archaeological evidence of tool use and cooperative hunting, illustrating how these changes shaped our physical and social evolution.
"there about what they one of the big debates of I guess that's an ongoing debate is whether we are evolved to eat meet or we're meant you know we're meant to be interesting use of words vegan an or ve..."
The Impact of Bipedalism on Hunting
Lieberman discusses the implications of bipedalism on early human hunting capabilities. He explains how walking on two legs affected our speed and hunting strategies compared to our four-legged relatives. This segment highlights the challenges faced by early humans in hunting and how they adapted their techniques over time, leading to significant evolutionary changes.
"where we learn how to hunt and gather and was that the point where we started really eating more Meats yes so well first of all it probably wasn't like a you know a a day you know you know lightning b..."
The Evolution of Human Anatomy
In this segment, Lieberman describes the anatomical changes that occurred as humans evolved into effective hunters and gatherers. He highlights the development of physical traits that facilitated our survival and adaptability. By examining fossil evidence, he illustrates how our bodies transformed over millions of years, emphasizing the connection between our evolutionary history and our current physical form.
"they're probably eating a wide range of foods including including what we call extractive foraging so they're they're eating tubers underground storage organs right so instead of just plucking berries..."
The Significance of Our Nose
In this segment, Lieberman elaborates on the evolutionary significance of the human nose, explaining how its structure aids in breathing and thermoregulation. He contrasts the human nose with that of other primates, emphasizing its role in our ability to cool down during physical activity. This adaptation is linked to our ancestors' hunting strategies and their need to manage body heat effectively.
"allowed us to to become good hunter gatherers so we have this nose that sticks out of our face whereas like a lot of our cousins look more like Voldemort like they kind of have the invert and that's a..."
Breathing: Myths and Realities
Dr. Lieberman addresses common misconceptions about breathing, particularly the debate surrounding nasal versus mouth breathing during physical exertion. He critiques the notion that breathing through the nose is the only healthy way to breathe while running, arguing that mouth breathing serves a critical function in regulating body temperature during intense activities. This segment challenges popular beliefs and emphasizes the complexity of our respiratory adaptations.
"external nose so so that happens around 2 million years ago or so um we can see that cuz on the in the fossils we can see the the margin of the nose and you can see that it's lipped out it's what we c..."
Sweating: A Unique Human Adaptation
This segment focuses on the evolution of sweating as a thermoregulatory mechanism unique to humans. Lieberman explains how our ability to sweat efficiently allows us to maintain body temperature during physical activity, giving us an advantage over other animals. He discusses the evolutionary implications of this adaptation and how it relates to our ancestors' hunting practices.
"who have sleep apnea which is a serious issue um uh that's usually caused by well it's caused by a variety of things of course a deviated septum might be one of them obesity can cause it there's a num..."
The Role of Energy in Brain Development
Lieberman explores the relationship between energy availability and brain size in human evolution. He explains how the shift to a hunting and gathering lifestyle provided more energy, which in turn allowed for the development of larger brains. This segment highlights the interconnectedness of energy, diet, and cognitive evolution, emphasizing the importance of food processing and cooperation in our ancestors' survival.
"that's so panting is how animals cool or you can even watch a lizard a lizzard also does what's called G pumping it'll it'll actually you know that's how it cools itself down watch a a lizard will run..."
Fat and Brain Growth: An Evolutionary Perspective
In this insightful segment, Lieberman discusses the critical role of body fat in supporting brain growth and development in humans. He explains how infants are born with higher body fat percentages compared to other species, which is essential for providing energy to their developing brains. This segment connects the dots between energy storage, brain function, and the evolutionary advantages of having a fat-rich diet.
"know when that happened and it's possible that um that our stopi ancestors before before hunting started because remember they're two-legged creatures right and they're not um they're not very fast so..."
Why Dieting is So Challenging
In this segment, Lieberman elaborates on the evolutionary challenges of dieting. He explains that humans have evolved to store fat rather than lose it, making modern dieting efforts feel counterintuitive to our biology. The discussion includes insights on how the body's starvation response complicates weight loss efforts, emphasizing the physiological mechanisms that defend against fat loss.
"this is why dieting is so hard right because well we never evolved to diet we evolved to put that fat on we did evolve of course to use it when we needed it right but we never evolved um to to to get ..."
Cortisol and Its Impact on Health
Lieberman explains the role of cortisol, the stress hormone, in weight management and health. He discusses how chronic stress elevates cortisol levels, leading to increased hunger and fat storage, particularly in the abdominal area. This segment connects stress to various health issues, including inflammation and chronic diseases, highlighting the importance of managing stress for overall well-being.
"vessels so that fat is a great energy Supply when you're you know you're physically active right when I when I want run running around Central Park this morning right I was burning some of my belly fa..."
Energy Availability and Reproductive Health
This segment focuses on how energy availability affects reproductive health, particularly in women. Lieberman discusses how low body fat and dieting can disrupt hormonal balance, leading to issues like amenorrhea. He emphasizes the evolutionary perspective that the body conserves energy during times of scarcity, impacting fertility and reproductive choices.
"that's why you know racism discrimination all those all those factors that can Elevate stress commuting um um have negative Health consequences because it it causes us to our cortisol levels to go up ..."
The Mismatch Between Modern Stressors and Our Biology
Lieberman discusses the concept of 'mismatch diseases,' which arise from the disparity between our evolved biology and modern environmental stressors. He explains how chronic stress from contemporary life can lead to health issues that our ancestors did not face, emphasizing the need to understand these mismatches to improve health outcomes.
"former professor of mine Peter Ellison and there other researchers around the world a woman named GNA jensa and Poland others have shown that you know our bodies are Inc incredibly sensitive to energy..."
The Rise of Mismatch Diseases
In this segment, Lieberman highlights the prevalence of mismatch diseases in modern society, such as heart disease and diabetes. He explains how lifestyle changes, including diet and physical activity, play a crucial role in the emergence of these diseases. The discussion underscores the importance of understanding our evolutionary past to combat these health challenges effectively.
"not a time to do all kinds of stuff right just run right make energy available but situations where you have persistently high levels of cortisol chronic stress chronic stress that's what we call a mi..."
Dietary Choices and Evolutionary Insights
Lieberman concludes by discussing the significance of dietary choices in light of our evolutionary history. He emphasizes that understanding the foods our ancestors consumed can guide modern dietary practices. This segment encourages viewers to consider how evolutionary insights can lead to healthier eating habits and improved health outcomes.
"surprising because diabetes in places like the United States and England are incredibly common about something like 12% of Americans have diabetes now you said that this mismatch is responsible for mo..."
The Evolution of Diet Choices
Lieberman explains the fascinating story of how our dietary choices have evolved. He contrasts the abundance of food choices available today with the limited options faced by our ancestors, arguing that this abundance often leads to poor dietary decisions and health consequences. He advocates for an evolutionary approach to diet to help people make better choices.
"writing a book about diet and food yes why the story of how the diets that we eat today and and uh is is actually a really fascinating story but also um because I think that we um if we take a more ev..."
Cultural Evolution vs. Biological Evolution
In this segment, Lieberman discusses the rapid pace of cultural evolution compared to the slow process of biological evolution. He highlights how modern lifestyles, characterized by sedentary behavior and processed foods, create mismatches that our bodies are not equipped to handle, leading to various health issues.
"complexities are of of them because there are no there there's no such thing as a free lunch right every every choice that you make has Alternatives and alternative consequences and and I think people..."
The Rise of Myopia and Modern Living
Dr. Lieberman addresses the increase in myopia (nearsightedness) as a consequence of modern living, particularly the time spent indoors and the prevalence of screen use. He explains how this condition exemplifies the mismatch between our evolutionary adaptations and contemporary lifestyles.
"and then guess what we do right so we let's say we I'll give a very simple example right until recently nobody read right and nobody spent a lot of time indoors and so myopia used to be extremely unus..."
Treating Symptoms vs. Causes
Lieberman critiques the modern medical approach of treating symptoms rather than addressing the root causes of diseases. He argues that this leads to a cycle of dis-evolution, where society becomes reliant on medications instead of focusing on prevention and healthier lifestyles.
"Etc we all do just fine can we undo it well here's the thing I mean we're what we're doing in no myopia you you can get lasic surgery and there are some things you can do very expensive most people ca..."
The Cost of Mismatch Diseases
In this segment, Lieberman discusses the financial and social implications of mismatch diseases, emphasizing that a significant portion of healthcare costs is spent on preventable diseases. He highlights the disparities in access to healthy food and exercise opportunities, particularly for low-income populations.
"actually oh really I think you cited you um yeah so so how you your chewing affects the the shape of your you know how your your jaw grows um and so it is true that we have smaller Jaws today than we ..."
Cancer: An Evolutionary Perspective
Dr. Lieberman explores the complexities of cancer as both an evolutionary disease and a mismatch disease. He explains how lifestyle factors, such as diet and physical activity, significantly influence cancer rates, and discusses the implications of energy consumption on cancer development.
"um it differentially affects people of of low income and people who are of suffer from discrimination um I mean look in the United States right who gets the chance to exercise and eat you know fresh v..."
Menstrual Cycles and Cancer Rates
In this insightful segment, Lieberman examines the relationship between menstrual cycles and cancer rates, particularly in women. He discusses how the frequency of menstrual cycles in modern society compared to hunter-gatherer populations may contribute to higher cancer rates, shedding light on the evolutionary factors at play.
"cause cancer but also having lots of energy so we talked earlier about when women are physically inactive their their their hormone levels shoot up right because the body says ha more energy let's spe..."
Energy Storage in the Body
In this segment, Lieberman elaborates on how the human body stores energy, focusing on fat storage and the role of adipocytes. He explains the biochemical processes involved in fat storage and the implications of excess fat on health, including chronic inflammation and related diseases.
"well that's yeah it's you know you any any any cells that are sensitive to estrogen and progesterone those those are the cancer those those particular kinds of so often when you you you you U measure ..."
The Dangers of Excess Fat
Dr. Lieberman discusses the health risks associated with excessive fat storage, including the impact on organs and the immune system. He explains how overfilled fat cells can lead to inflammation and various health issues, including cardiovascular diseases and diabetes.
"as I as we talked about earlier in this conversation humans evolved to have an unusually high level of fat so a typical Hunter gather male will have about 10 to 15% body fat typical Hunter female will..."
Keto Diet and Fasting Explained
This segment covers the ketogenic diet and fasting, with Lieberman explaining how these practices affect energy balance in the body. He discusses the potential benefits and drawbacks of both approaches, emphasizing the importance of understanding energy dynamics for weight management.
"problems the keto diet and fasting they someone said to me the other day that keto is basically a form of fasting in a way um and are they how do they help the body because people are pretty crazy and..."
The Role of Exercise in Health
Lieberman argues that exercise plays a crucial role in maintaining health and managing weight. He contrasts the effects of intermittent fasting with those of regular physical activity, suggesting that exercise may provide more significant health benefits than fasting alone.
"miraculous things um for weight loss if you look at the data yes it does tend to uh lead to Rapid short-term weight loss but the data don't s don't show it is very effective as a a long-term weight lo..."
The Importance of Bone Loading
In this segment, Lieberman explains how physical activity, particularly weight-bearing exercises, is crucial for bone health. He discusses how the lack of exercise during youth leads to lower peak bone mass and increased risk of osteoporosis later in life. The conversation also touches on how different activities, like tennis, can lead to asymmetrical bone growth.
"world exercise also helps prevent uh bone loss because it it it suppresses the cells that that essentially cause our bones to start being resorbed so so it's a it's kind of a double whammy you're not ..."
The Consequences of Modern Diets on Jaw Development
Lieberman discusses the impact of modern diets on jaw development, noting that processed foods contribute to smaller jaws and increased rates of malocclusion. He suggests that encouraging children to chew harder foods could promote healthier jaw growth, potentially reducing the need for orthodontic interventions.
"of my bones absolutely yeah loading your bones is is is is is one of the factors that just we talked about it earlier that's why people who eat harder food you know that's less processed grow larger J..."
Changing Puberty Trends and Energy Availability
This segment explores how the age of puberty has shifted over the years, with girls now entering menarche earlier due to increased energy availability. Lieberman provides historical data from France and contrasts it with findings from rural Kenya, illustrating how environmental factors influence reproductive timing.
"jaw growth puberty puberty um the age in which women go through puberty has changed quite significantly yeah and I couldn't figure out why it's it's energy again right it's always it's about energy re..."
The Dangers of Sedentary Lifestyles
Lieberman addresses the health risks associated with prolonged sitting, emphasizing the importance of breaking up sitting time with movement. He compares sedentary behaviors in modern society with more active lifestyles of traditional cultures, highlighting the metabolic benefits of regular movement.
"so if you have more energy we're we're evolved to to to do it earlier every time I have these conversations I realized that I'm sat in a chair for a living for sometimes 3 hours at a time today I've b..."
Back Pain and Muscle Endurance
In this segment, Lieberman discusses the prevalence of back pain and its connection to weak back muscles. He explains that endurance in back muscles is crucial for preventing pain and emphasizes that many people mistakenly attribute back pain to specific movements rather than underlying muscle weakness.
"a lot I'll be right back and of course if you're going to sit at work make sure that you're not spending you know sitting in your car to get to work isn't good and then you go home and you sit on the ..."
Addressing Mismatch Diseases
Lieberman concludes with actionable insights on how to combat mismatch diseases prevalent in modern society. He stresses the importance of understanding our evolutionary history to make better lifestyle choices, such as increasing physical activity and reducing processed food intake, to mitigate health risks.
"if someone's just heard everything you've said about these mismatch diseases there's a lot to take in you know there's a lot of different mismatch diseases you said that if you're going to die from an..."
Rethinking Cosmetic Products
The conversation shifts to the impact of cosmetic products on health. Lieberman and the host discuss the chemicals in everyday products and the need for greater awareness about their potential effects on health. This segment encourages listeners to reconsider their use of various personal care items.
"cycle as you'll know if you've listened to this podcast before I'm an investor in a company called hu I'm on their board and they sponsor this podcast Daily Greens which is this powder I have in front..."
The Hygiene Hypothesis Explained
Lieberman explains the hygiene hypothesis, discussing how overly sanitized environments can lead to an increase in allergies and autoimmune diseases. He draws parallels between our immune systems and teenagers with nothing to do, emphasizing the need for exposure to natural pathogens to maintain a healthy immune response.
"stuff just be skeptical skeptical I mean look there's an entire world of people out there who's trying who are trying to sell us stuff right and and if you're particularly like you you're you're you'r..."
The Impact of Sanitization on Health
The discussion continues on the effects of excessive sanitization, particularly during the pandemic. Lieberman raises concerns about children growing up in overly sterile environments and the potential long-term health consequences, including autoimmune diseases, due to lack of exposure to germs.
"children's hands and this fear of bugs my girlfriend comes back from the gym and she rushes into the house and lathers on all this antibiotic CU she's been touching things other people have been touch..."
Reflections on Sacrifice and Values
In a thought-provoking exchange, Lieberman reflects on the concept of sacrifice, discussing what he would be willing to die for. He contemplates the value of life, love for family, and the significance of ideas that could benefit humanity, highlighting the complexity of such decisions.
"nothing to do and they're M that increases the probability that they start to attack us so that's why peanut allergies and various kinds of allergies and milk allergies and what all these allergies ar..."
The Weight of Ideals
The conversation wraps up with a deeper exploration of the weight of ideals and the abstract nature of sacrifice. Lieberman and the host discuss the difficulty of answering questions about dying for one's country or ideas, emphasizing the respect owed to those who have made such sacrifices.
"them Daniel thank you so much all of your books are absolutely fascinating it's so bloody annoying because I could just talk to you forever they're so brilliant all of the books absolutely brilliant a..."