"Robert Mack is on the show today to teach us what he's learned from great comics like Jerry Seinfeld and Mitch Hedber. And I said, "Robert, you got to come on the show. You've been doing standup for m..."

"You wouldn't believe it, but how I write costs a fortune to run. And it's thanks to Mercury, but I can even do it. They're the sponsor of this episode and a banking platform that I've been using for t..."

"All right, back to the episode. Uh, I want to start with a a joke by a comedian that I'm lucky to have met before he passed away. He's kind of famous. He's very famous. It's um it's Mitch Hedber. >> I..."

"Well, the thing about that too is it's takes two sentences to do that. >> It takes two sentences. Yeah. It's not like a whole story that you >> No, you don't need you don't need a background. You don'..."

"His vibe, he's this shaggy guy. Um he gets introduced. He's like, "Ladies and gentlemen, Stephen, right?" And you're expecting this guy to run out on stage and he slumps along and uh you know uh nothi..."

"Inongruity is probably the second most common trigger of laughter. It's when something doesn't fit. And when you lo like, I lost a button hole. That doesn't make sense. And when you realize, oh, I get..."

"And that dissonance, having both ideas at once, the body reacted with a laugh. And they say that laughter comes from having these two inongruous thoughts at the same time and then realizing that every..."

"That's a perfect example of what he does. He's changing the scale. Again, like some of those first jokes, he's changing the scale. That misplaced focus. If Yeah. If you have the time, you could walk a..."

"Uh a minute ago I said I I am a big fan of science. I follow it religiously. Those are two thoughts that sometimes don't go together. And uh some people would call it irony when you have um fighting o..."

"This has a little bit of a that place is too crowded, nobody goes there anymore vibe. I said it the opposite. It is nobody goes there anymore, that place is too crowded. Exactly. Yogi Barra, >> right?..."

"There's always an element of truth that is the starting point and you zoom out or you tweak it or you look at it from another point of view or you exaggerate it or you make it a character or you make ..."

"Well, you know, something about that one kind of works because vivid like vivid seems like it's important in hyperbole. If you can make a picture in someone's head that they're more more likely to rem..."

"Right. Right. No, you're exactly right. There's so many jokes that people don't don't make it vivid. So, it's it it doesn't stay with them. But but I I have a joke about the truth. >> Bring it on. >> ..."

"That's a name that's not like >> That's a real name. Uh it's a comedian who was very old when I was very young. And so I I don't know. Um he's like an old vaudeville guy. Um what I love about this is ..."

"Because when I say never raise your hands to your kids, your brain, our brains are thinking of a certain thing. Oh, the kids the future. You got to protect kids because that is the pattern that we're ..."

"Because our brains were so conditioned to think in certain ways that uh a good joke writer is able to manipulate how our brains work. and they set up a couple clues to go one way and then the punchlin..."

"and you have to have a sense of where they're going now what is the context so that then you can shift it and so I think part of the reason that com comedians have such connections with their audience..."

"You don't have to prove yourself. You don't have to explain the background of this story. If once you're connected, you can take them you can take them anywhere. You reminded me of a of a funny story...."

"And I have a joke about being um in Bryce Canyon in southern Utah. >> Love that place. >> It's beautiful. And if you don't know, it's these red sandstone arches and towers. It's where they film the Ro..."

"When we were sharing some comedy quotes before this and one of the ones you sent me is that winning isn't funny. >> Charles Schultz >> winning isn't funny. >> Right. And that's that's totally Charlie ..."

"Um Chris Rock had a recent special. He used to be the guy on stage who would talk about what it's like to be, you know, a a normal guy, an average guy. But his last special, he's talking about his kid..."

"Yeah. It's funny because you talk about winning isn't funny. And it's amazing how many comedians who instantly hit it off with an audience. I'm not saying they're the funniest ones, but I'm saying the..."

"Like, I know I need to lay off the carbs. I know. And all of a sudden, everyone starts laughing. It's boom, like instant connection. Whereas a lot of times when I'll go to a comedy show, it's just str..."

"he has a joke about being seven feet tall. He doesn't have to say, "Hey, everybody in the audience who's looking at me, I'm I'm a taller than the He can automatically do the punchline because the setu..."

"So that is why sometimes people talk about their outfit, they talk about their hair, they talk about their looks. When I started, it was a common kind of trope. If somebody looked like a couple of cel..."

"Let's do another one. This one's a long one. I read an article that said the Bible was the most bought and sold book last year. Harry Potter was number two. That means a book where a boy magician defe..."

">> And why is this one funny to you? >> Well, it's got this misdirection, right? It's like uh first of all, the Bible pops up. So instantly people kind of tense up when they hear the Bible >> and tens..."

"We have a curious setup. We have two different things. >> And then that means a book where the boy magician defeats the evil lord of the underworld. We're obviously talking about Harry Potter, >> of c..."

"You could see that. >> Exactly. Sold better than Harry Potter. Wait, what? Surprise. The jig makes it funny. >> Yes. And we call this particular type. I call it I mean there are a million different pe..."

"Oh, he's talking about the Bible. No, he's talking about Harry Potter. And we switch them. So, when you have two very specific things you're talking about and you imply that you're talking about one, ..."

"That one's great. Steve Hosteder is a is a very uh famous guy uh is a great jokemith and um >> a jokeith What is a jokemith relative to other kinds of comedians? >> Um really crafts a good joke. Some ..."

"What are what are the smallest tweaks that you could make to where the joke just doesn't work now? >> Well, I mean, it's obvious that um he's talking about in the second part, he's talking about the B..."

"So the um he's he's worded it in such a way that it can only be this. And so it'd be very easy to to switch it. If he changed Harry Potter to the the Bible at the end, that wouldn't be a surprise beca..."

"Base Camp is a project management tool and it's different from the other ones which are loud and noisy and cluttered. They have feature bloat. Base Camp says, "No, no, no, no, no. We're going to keep ..."

"And I had the founder of Base Camp, Jason Freed, he came on the show and I noticed that he really cares about writing. He cares about manifestos. He cares about great copy. He cares about telling a gr..."

"My favorite thing in the bedroom is when she puts on her nurse outfit and leaves for work without waking me up. It's a kind of a bait and switch. you're thinking maybe one thing, but it turns out uh t..."

"He was retiring from the military. He was 75. His family is in the audience. They're well-dressed. It's a very formal event, very conservative, grandparents, kids. and I do a joke that mentions the be..."

"good joke is it releases this builtup tension and right >> I think Freud is the one who was one of the first to to discuss that. >> Well, let me read it. Let's just go through it. My favorite thing in..."

"What was so bad? What were you guys freaking out about? >> Yes. It's like the monster at the end of the book. It was me the whole time. >> Exactly. >> Now, if you were to talk about changing one word,..."

"Too serious. There's no there's none of the roleplaying. >> Yeah. >> And so, I had to pick a word that implied both uh dressing up for a bedroom activity and dressing up for work. and outfit was the o..."

"So I want to show you this from uh from a wedding speech. Okay. So here we go. So husband here and then wife to his right. >> Last thing I'm going to say is that uh we're expecting >> everyone here to..."

"His the timing of that was perfect because what he says we're expecting our pattern recognition tells us we're expecting to have a child. We just got married. Um but no the actual the truth of the mat..."

"You know what word just came to mind? plausible deniability. >> Mhm. >> You know what I mean? It's like we're expecting >> all of you to have a great time tonight. Like the transcript is totally koshe..."

"I knew a guy who was dating in San Francisco was dating a fireman and he said, "I like how he puts out fires." And it was just putting out and putting out fires are two completely different things tha..."

"And I was also thinking of I watched this uh it was this speech one time >> and this was 50th anniversary of marriage and once again context right context. So, night of celebration. I love I love my w..."

"Yeah. playing playing. There's there's so many different ways that that that people will laugh. And when you when you're admitting in front of your loved ones that three of these years weren't the bes..."

"It's called the laugh of uh the laugh of victory if you're familiar with the Simpsons. >> Yeah. >> Nelson laughing down at others. >> Punching down. It's it's not in favor these days as much. But maki..."

"We had 40 We had three bad years, but 47 great ones. So, come on, folks. >> It's funny. It's kind of mean and it's kind of sweet at the same time. >> That's comedy. Sometimes it is a little mean. John..."

"For me, it's about writing because if you write a joke well enough, the audience can get it in their head without you having to tell them what the punchline is. Like this one, I got a box of animal cr..."

"And uh if you've ever seen the seals, they're the cute ones. Um, this guy uh is a great he's also a jokemith. Writes these great oneliners. Used to write for Conan O'Brien. The point is if you write w..."

"I'm not one of the people who didn't get the joke because there's always those on the outside who try to I didn't get that. Explain that one to me. And when an audience because of good writing, when a..."

"Okay. Animal Crackers. What I like about Animal Crackers is that it takes us back to something playful. And it seems to me like a lot of what you're doing as a comic is getting people into a state of ..."

"Yes. And there's like a seriousness about like I could die if I have bad milk. >> Bad milk, right? There's there's that. The thing about animal crackers though is the without if it was a different typ..."

"That's why sex jokes work and fart jokes work and bathroom jokes work because there's something taboo almost about that or or sickening or gross. >> Okay, let's talk about Seinfeld. >> Sure. So, um, I..."

"And so now the thing that we've thought about but never even thought to put into words now has a name and has become a thing and then it gets exaggerated. And that that move Larry David has done 150 t..."

">> She wants to say hi. She's with her new boyfriend. >> What's he like? >> He's nice. Bit of a close talker. >> A what? >> You'll see. This is Aaron. Hello, Aaron. >> Hello, Aaron. >> So, how long ar..."

"How'd you like a behind-the-scenes tour? >> Really, you could do that? >> Easily. >> It wouldn't be any trouble? >> Of course not. >> Where could we go? >> HOW ABOUT RIGHT NOW? I'M READY. How about yo..."

"Yeah. >> But but though that is exactly what what that show is about. It's about nothing and making it big. And you said you said exaggeration and and hyperbole, and that's exactly what it is. It gets..."

"Everybody goes, "Oh, I know somebody like that." Which [laughter] >> cut to Jerry wearing a pirate shirt. Uh because he agreed to wear the pirate shirt. But um one of uh again one of the the goals of ..."

"Exactly. And uh I think it was an interview that Seinfeld did with Howard Stern, I think. But he just talks about how a lot of good comedy just comes from being a bit irritable, kind of constantly irr..."

"and then you're just way more irritable than the average person. But then you kind of play with that and then that leads to the joke cuz it is like universally funny when someone's like, "Hey, you kno..."

"If I said, "Who here remembers dial-up modems?" And people in the audience go, "Yeah, yeah, I remember that." They laugh. It's not funny, but that recognition starts the joke, starts the laugh uh proc..."

"And if you're sensitive, you said sensitive. If you're a sensitive observer, you're maybe you get annoyed easily and you twist that truth that you've recognized and make it exaggerated. You somehow tw..."

"You notice it, you exaggerate it, you represent it to the audience in a way that makes it entertaining. >> Yeah. And uh a bit of a close talker, huh? You're like, "Wait, I know what that is, but I'm n..."

">> and uh then it comes to life, >> right? >> And then also like a good >> No, it comes to life is exactly it. You say something and now we demonstrate it. Here's the theory. Here's the proof. >> Yeah..."

"How can you not? >> Yeah. >> He's demonstrated it and and identified it with the name and so now that will always have that name because he was the first one to put a title to it."

"And yeah, usually the third one does break things. um break the mold of the first two. The first two were what? Physical trips or something. What was the >> It was uh running a marathon. >> Running a ..."

"Well, it works in writing too, right? wouldn't work to say the pursuit of happiness, life, and liberty. It has to be life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. >> Yeah. The third one is has to be a ..."

"Yeah, that one. You don't need more. And it it doesn't it ends right there. You can put it in other bits about drinking or it can just stand alone by itself. One more. I have one more. Should we do it..."

"If he did it as himself, if you're the bad guy, >> people might not like you, but if you put it in somebody else, I don't know if you've ever seen a ventriloquist, >> okay, >> the the puppet guy >> Ye..."

"And I'm always like, you just don't need all this setup. Like you could have 10% and it' be fine, but you need buy in >> when you're telling a story. Like you can sort of tell when you're telling a st..."

"I know another guy who is a a horrible storyteller and he had a great story. He he drove Bob Dylan around in a limo for a day. But the way he tells the story is he delivers that part first and then it..."

">> My family had holiday celebrations and I was just interested in watching them tell stories and I would notice there was a distinct difference between my aunts and my uncles. My aunts would get caug..."

">> Well, I would I would argue a little bit with that. >> Oh, tell me. Good. >> I would say good >> um if somebody said the year was 1945, blah blah blah, the kid was born. But the ants are the year w..."

"Um, show me what you got. >> It has some specifics. It requires some cultural knowledge as well. Um, pop culture stuff. The notorious B.I. once wrote a song where he predicted his own death. Do you un..."

"Or maybe earlier in the set you could talk about, you guys know Notorious B.I. is also known as Biggie Smalls and kind of plant that seed so the information is in the audience's head so that later whe..."

"It's giving your best material and when a joke doesn't work, you start doing all of your stuff, the hits, the things that will work. And when those don't work, you just feel like that you don't exist...."

"I just wanted to to nose dive out of there >> bombing bombing is brutal and sadly um for me and I'm sure it's the same for many performers the last show you have in your head is the one that you remem..."

"And I agree with that in part. But if I'm doing the same jokes that have worked thousands of times before and they're not getting it, it might be it might be on them. But there are so many things that..."

"And um I would say it's half on me. I should I should connect better. First thing to do is connect to that audience. But if I don't know them, how do I connect? And then walk me through you kind of ha..."

"Um, sometimes I'm just walking down the street and there's a a sign or I see a guy or I see a dog who's wearing a a prettier sweater than the person who's walking the dog and I see there's something o..."

"So, I look at my notes and I see, oh, there's a dog wearing a sweater, and I just I free I freewrite whatever comes to my mind, everything about dogs and sweaters. And and sometimes things connect and..."

"It's making a collage. It's putting a bunch of ideas together and see which ones bounce off each other and which ones rub against each other. You wouldn't see somebody dressing up a cat. Cats don't. >..."

"Yeah. The the other thing was out of battery and so I was using the scroller thing on the mouse which required a thumb and I'm like h I'm glad I have a thumb. Dogs don't have a thumb. And then I got t..."

"Last question. So you teach comedy and so as you sit down to sort of structure the curriculum and saying hey these are the things that I want to teach people about comedy like what are the core princi..."

"And we've talked about some of those. Hyperbole, >> misdirection, >> misdirection, this misplaced focus, um taboo. Uh there's a guy I mentioned, his name is Scott Dickers. He's the one who founded The..."

"They observe something, they process it, they write it down, they rebuild it in a way that has an element of truth, but also an element that makes it interesting or exciting so that somebody else will..."

"My my mother-in-law, she weighs 1,000 pounds. Um, she weighs as much as two 500 lb sofas. That's not funny. But if I if I found another way of saying it that was interesting or exciting or push some l..."

"So, those are the things I would focus on and try to do that in in an hour or over a course of five weeks depending on how much time I have for the class. >> Hopefully, I'm a little bit funnier now. >..."

">> Yeah. >> And hit me up and we can bounce ideas. >> Okay. >> It's about a different perspective. So, another set of eyeballs is very helpful when you're starting a comedy career because there's you ..."