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Startup Hiring Advice from Lever CEO Sarah Nahm with Holly Liu
25 segments available
Sarah Nahm is the CEO and cofounder of Lever. Lever builds modern recruiting software for teams to source, interview, and hire top talent. They were in the Summer 2012 batch of YC. You can try Lever out at Lever.co. https://twitter.com/srhnhm http://lever.co/ Holly Liu is a Visiting Partner at YC. Before that she cofounded the gaming company Kabam. https://twitter.com/hollyhliu The YC podcast is hosted by Craig Cannon. https://twitter.com/craigcannon Y Combinator invests a small amount of money ($150k) in a large number of startups (recently 200), twice a year. Learn more about YC and apply for funding here: https://www.ycombinator.com/apply/ *** Topics 00:05 - Did Sarah grow up thinking she'd be a founder? 7:25 - Why did she decide to leave Google and start Lever? 13:20 - Thinking about product in the early days of Lever 15:15 - Fundraising and figuring out the team 23:30 - How do you figure out someone's career motivations? 26:50 - Getting concrete when interviewing 28:45 - Hiring remote employees 31:35 - Writing job descriptions around impact 37:05 - Eva Zhang asks - What's the biggest roadblock you faced in trying to make hiring more inclusive to diverse candidates? 41:30 - What does thinking about inclusion mean at a small company? 46:45 - Not buying into technical and nontechnical people 49:50 - Setting up a culture that allows for conversations about diversity and inclusion
Segments Timeline
From Alabama to Silicon Valley
Sarah Nahm shares her unexpected journey from growing up in Birmingham, Alabama, to becoming a founder in Silicon Valley. She reflects on her early interests in social justice and design, and how her experiences at Stanford influenced her path. Despite not initially seeing herself as a founder, she discusses the impact of her peers and the changing landscape of entrepreneurship.
"thanks for having us yeah pumped so Holly you have a question to start it off yeah I'm super curious did you ever see yourself becoming a founder a founding CEO oh my gosh I have to honestly say no so..."
Leaving Google: A Leap of Faith
Sarah discusses her decision to leave Google, emphasizing that it wasn't a direct path to founding Lever. She reflects on the privilege of her background and the opportunities that allowed her to explore various experiences. The conversation highlights the importance of finding the right co-founders and the nonlinear journey many founders face.
"because had to kind of create something nothing and figure out what I was doing and be really bad at it for a while and I think also in hindsight so many lessons learned about leadership and strategy ..."
Identifying Talent as a Competitive Edge
In this segment, Sarah explains the pivotal realization that talent is the key driver of innovation and competitive differentiation in businesses. She discusses how the landscape of work has changed, with a focus on the need for skilled individuals in various industries, and how this insight shaped the foundation of Lever.
"easy I think in a way it always kind of like felt like there was just more to experience starting lever was harder and that's because yeah I mean you know so for one he just didn't know exactly what w..."
Defining Problems Before Solutions
Sarah shares her approach to product development in the early days of Lever, emphasizing the importance of understanding customer needs before rushing to solutions. She reflects on the two-and-a-half-year period of defining the problem and how user feedback has always driven their product strategy.
"it was really transforming how organizations had to think about people an HR and hiring because kind of gone were the days of you know my parents generation where you like join a company and you work ..."
The Journey to CEO
Sarah recounts her personal journey from being a designer to becoming the CEO of Lever. She discusses the challenges and revelations faced during the fundraising process and how these experiences shaped her leadership style and the company's direction. This segment highlights the importance of confronting difficult questions about identity and purpose in a startup environment.
"to the core fundamentals so you know you kind of asked like did we know we were building I think that while we didn't know literally what product or what solution we were going to bring to market from..."
Competing for Talent Against Giants
Sarah addresses the competitive landscape for startups trying to attract top talent amidst tech giants like Google and Facebook. She emphasizes the unique advantages that startups have in offering a compelling company culture and the importance of clearly defining their value proposition to stand out in a global talent market.
"so you know when I think of those early days yeah like all fronts we are figuring out who we were and it's some of the most fun and terrifying you know chapters you ever had it loved her so yeah those..."
Proactive Recruitment Strategies
In this segment, Sarah shares actionable advice on proactive recruitment strategies for startups. She stresses the importance of reaching out to potential candidates rather than waiting for applications, and discusses various creative sourcing methods, including leveraging personal networks and engaging with communities on platforms like GitHub.
"have this like experience of like there's well-resourced recruiting machines that are kind of out there and on the flip side early-stage startups have such a unique opportunity to offer and so I think..."
Building Relationships for Future Hiring
Sarah highlights the significance of nurturing relationships with potential hires over time. She explains how investing in these connections can lead to faster hiring processes and better cultural fit, as candidates who are familiar with the company are more likely to join when the time is right.
"recruiting the most talented people than these sort of large environments can give us an example that you guys did that lover oh my gosh yeah hundred percent I think the first thing is you know proact..."
The Importance of Authentic Storytelling
Sarah discusses the power of authentic storytelling in recruitment. She encourages founders to help their teams articulate their personal journeys and motivations for joining the company, which can significantly enhance the effectiveness of recruitment efforts and attract like-minded talent.
"can we swear on this podcast like how did you guys proactively do I mean yeah you're usually so stretched then they are starting out yeah no this is actually like a concrete thing proactive recruitmen..."
Understanding Motivation Fit
In this segment, Sarah explains the concept of 'motivation fit' in the hiring process. She shares strategies for assessing candidates' motivations and how their career goals align with the company's mission, emphasizing the importance of listening and asking the right questions during interviews.
"you just didn't expect you're like wow I would not have expected to find a great candidate here that's cool honestly we have so many amazing and unique hiring stories in our company our team so my you..."
Unpacking Career Motivations
Sarah Nahm shares insights on how to effectively understand a candidate's career motivations during the hiring process. She emphasizes the importance of asking direct questions and listening carefully to responses, highlighting that motivation fit is crucial for successful hires in early-stage startups.
"question um you know I think the simple answer is really just ask and the more complex answer is of course get really good at listening so the simple kind of way it's you know I think if you ask peopl..."
The Power of Behavioral Interviewing
In this segment, Sarah discusses the effectiveness of behavioral interviewing for early-stage startups. She explains how asking candidates about their career trajectories can reveal patterns of success and failure, helping founders make informed hiring decisions even for roles they haven't personally experienced.
"certainly have a tactical question yeah they used to train a lot of interviewing around like tell me about a time when XY and Z oh yeah how do you like do you still feel like those can helps us out to..."
Navigating Remote Hiring Challenges
Sarah Nahm addresses the complexities of hiring remote employees, emphasizing the need for a supportive culture that accommodates remote work. She discusses the benefits and challenges of tapping into a global hiring market and the importance of preparing company culture for remote work dynamics.
"trajectory and it's basically a behavioral interviewing interview where you go in and you just kind of start at you know college and then go step by step by step through people's career and allow them..."
Crafting Impactful Job Descriptions
Sarah shares her approach to writing job descriptions that focus on the impact of the role rather than just listing tasks. She recounts how her team shifted from traditional job descriptions to impact descriptions, which not only attracted top talent but also fostered a more inclusive hiring process.
"long as possible and I think that was pretty intentional and I think it I will say connected to us being able to build a really strong culture together it allowed us to I think really quickly you know..."
Overcoming Roadblocks to Inclusive Hiring
In response to a question from Eva Zhang, Sarah discusses the challenges of making hiring more inclusive for diverse candidates. She reflects on the broader industry efforts and the internal cultural shifts necessary for fostering inclusivity within her own company.
"yeah yeah and so do you find yourself do you still list required skills for instance so say you know I'm looking at to apply for a job at lever and it's like you're gonna you know increase X Y & Z and..."
Roadblocks to Inclusive Hiring
In response to a question from Eva Zhang, Sarah Nahm identifies the biggest roadblocks to making hiring more inclusive. She emphasizes the tension between relying on software solutions and the need for individuals and companies to confront their own biases and practices. Sarah highlights the importance of fostering a culture of awareness and dialogue around diversity and inclusion, rather than expecting software to solve these complex issues.
"the YC application it's not a bad angle um so related to inclusion Ava Zhuang sent you in a question she writes what's the biggest roadblock you faced and trying to make hiring more inclusive to diver..."
Building an Inclusive Culture
Sarah shares her insights on the significance of creating an inclusive culture before hiring diverse talent. She argues that companies should focus on making their culture welcoming and supportive to ensure that new hires can thrive. Sarah reflects on her own experiences at Lever, where the team has prioritized diversity and inclusion from the start, despite initial challenges in achieving demographic diversity.
"if anything you know this isn't a roadblock but maybe something that would remove roadblocks I think people need more success stories out there because they're happening and I think we see a lot of ne..."
Cultural Surface Area and Inclusion
Sarah discusses how cultural decisions, such as holiday recognition and office chores, reflect a company's values and inclusivity. She recounts a specific instance at Lever where they addressed the disproportionate burden of office chores on women by implementing a rotational dish duty system. This example illustrates how small changes can contribute to a more equitable workplace culture.
"when founders think that because maybe they're like in a majority they don't have a credible ability to lead their company to you know have a strong DNI culture like well I mean it's what we were talk..."
Challenging Technical vs. Non-Technical Stereotypes
Sarah Nahm addresses the stereotypes surrounding technical and non-technical roles in Silicon Valley. She explains how these stereotypes can create a culture of privilege and self-handicapping among non-technical employees. By encouraging all team members to embrace a technical mindset and understand the broader business context, Lever aims to break down these barriers and foster a more collaborative environment.
"just like made it completely equitable and it'll didn't shirk their duties wow that's a whole other question actually a long time even when like you know I think it was until like we were like actuall..."
Breaking Stereotypes in Tech Hiring
Sarah Nahm discusses the stereotypes that often undervalue non-technical employees in tech companies. She emphasizes the need for all team members, regardless of their technical background, to adopt an engineering mindset and understand customer needs. This segment highlights the importance of dismantling self-handicapping beliefs and fostering a culture where both technical and non-technical employees can thrive.
"there's all these kind of attributes about you maybe being like a more worthy or valuable or like higher potential founder right or employee right like I think there is even some companies were like t..."
Creating a Culture of Open Conversations
In this segment, Sarah Nahm addresses the challenges of fostering open conversations about diversity and inclusion in the workplace. She shares insights on how to create a culture that encourages dialogue, allowing employees to express their thoughts and feelings without fear. The discussion includes practical steps Lever takes to facilitate these conversations and promote inclusivity.
"yeah it's like yeah I've met many technical people with no product sense yeah yeah no I mean I'm guilty of it too right like I sort of embraced the idea in hindsight in a weird way that I was like pro..."
Onboarding for Inclusivity
Sarah Nahm explains Lever's innovative onboarding process, known as 'Ramp Camp,' which introduces new hires to the company's culture, including its commitment to diversity and inclusion. She discusses the importance of integrating these values from day one and how employee resource groups contribute to shaping company policies. This segment highlights the significance of structural and human elements in fostering an inclusive workplace.
"layers of an onion yeah you know I wouldn't even say lever solve this problem but I'll just enumerate some of the things that we do to help we do everything from the superstructure to you know the sup..."
Empowering Employees Through Shared Language
In this segment, Sarah shares how Lever uses assessments to create a common language among employees, helping them navigate differences in perspectives and backgrounds. She describes the fun and engaging ways the company celebrates diversity, including a unique color-coding system during onboarding. This approach not only empowers employees but also fosters a sense of belonging and community.
"then some of the things that are just more human oh gosh well here's a funny example so we really encourage people to engage with each other solve problems like with each other but you know sometimes ..."
The Collective Ownership of Culture
Sarah Nahm emphasizes the importance of collective ownership in building a strong company culture, particularly regarding diversity and inclusion. She shares how early-stage founders can embed these values into their organizations to create a self-reinforcing culture. This segment highlights the long-term benefits of prioritizing inclusivity and how it contributes to a thriving workplace.
"reveal is it the happier and so all the new hires are wearing leis that correspond to their color stories like green you're like right so you know I think that you know whether you're doing it kind of..."
The Founder's Role in Recruiting
In the concluding segment, Sarah offers valuable advice to early-stage founders about the critical role of recruiting in shaping company culture. She stresses that a founder's primary job is to build a great team, which is essential for achieving business success. This insight serves as a reminder of the importance of talent acquisition in driving results and fostering a positive work environment.
"amazing okay so just wrapping up up YC we have a batch going on right now all most of these companies are quite early what's your advice to the companies in the batch to make the most out of it mmm yo..."