"When we look at the skills required to do your job, by 2030 it will change by 70%. So whether or not you're looking to change your job, your job is changing. In order to stay competitive, you actually..."

">> We call it the full stack [music] builder model. The goal itself is to empower great builders to take their idea and to take it to market regardless of their role in the stack and which team they'r..."

"build the incentives programs, the motivation, the examples to how you do it. I see a lot of companies roll out their agents and just expecting companies to adopt. It doesn't work this way. >> There's..."

">> Top talent has this tendency of continuously trying to get better at their craft. The key trait that I'm emphasizing for builders is today. My guest is Tor Cohen, longtime chief product officer at ..."

"chief product officer at LinkedIn, who is piloting a new way of building that I think will become a model for how companies operate in the future. It's called the full stack builder program and essent..."

"program. They've introduced a new career path with the title full stack builder that anyone from any function can become. And as you'll hear in the conversation, they've built a bunch of internal tool..."

"you. A huge thank you to Shira Gestarch for suggesting topics for this conversation. If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube. It h..."

"this is the fastest growing job on the list were not there a year ago and then uh many of them not even exist uh you know a decade or two ago. There's actually some pretty amazing stats across the boa..."

">> Yeah. So we uh call it the full stack builder model and the goal uh always start with the goal. The goal itself is to empower great builders to take their idea and to take it to market regardless o..."

"product development life cycle from you know the the idea the insight all the way to launch the key trait that I'm emphasizing for for builders is where I want them to spend their time is where I thin..."

"you to align and rally others others around an idea creativity which for me is about coming up with possibilities beyond the obvious for example I don't think AI yet is great at creativity I think it'..."

"Everything else I'm working really hard to automate really, really hard. And then when you think about the outcome, it's not just about having more shots of the goal, which I think people go like, oh,..."

"response. And an analogy I have in mind is kind of Navy Seals. You know, you come to training, you they're all kind of learning. They're cross-trained across multiple areas. What they specialize in is..."

">> smaller teams and much more focused on the problem the mission per se >> versus actually one of the things we've done as an example we kind of uh started to do the idea of pods we're no longer larg..."

"success in both in terms of velocity but also in terms of that focus and nimleness of that team. And it feels like the goal here what you're trying to adjust and that broke as teams bloated is speed a..."

">> Okay. So then going back to the things that these builders still do versus what you want to automate. So the list you shared is uh they're responsible for the vision empathy communication creativit..."

"know in many ways you can start this way right you can uh there's no legacy code there's no legacy structure you run and in fact a lot of the startups I talk to uh that are build AI natively they're t..."

"components that we're working on. One is platform. The second one is the tools and the agents. And lastly is the culture. The platform one this is the kind of level of investment you have to do before..."

"fact that's one of our biggest learnings. It never works. Never works. You have to bring it in and customize a lot of it. Working almost in alpha mode with those companies to make it work internally. ..."

"well. So allow >> When you say those companies meaning like the development agents like cursors and devons and such. >> Yes. and like or Figma on design. You can think about the design system is anoth..."

"the goal for us in the next couple of months to basically roll them out externally. >> So >> externally I mean internally at LinkedIn >> okay not as the new product lines. >> Uh okay so many questions..."

"some cases, you know, let's talk about, you know, the design agent that we're working with. We're working with multiple companies to try and understand which product works best for us. Uh and interest..."

"I eight design agents in the company so we have to like you know converge into at least a few and I think it's similar across many areas because the appeal of those a lot of those agents are trying to..."

"that there's a trust agent. You know, you might have we call we call this internally the product jammer agent that basically does your product jam. Uh which is a process we do internally. you might ju..."

"some big inroads there. everything from the coding agent to what we call the maintenance agent when you have you know a failed build uh it will do it for you. In fact, I think we're close to 50% of al..."

"work. A lot of it has been getting all the corpus of data together, cleaning it up. That's actually a good learning as well. Like it's not great to just give it access to your drive and say reason all..."

"have to actually build. This is a really interesting way when you think about how you bring those tools in. You can't just bring them in. You have to know what you feed them with. >> And what you feed..."

"time. This episode is brought to you by Miro. Every day, new headlines are scaring us about all the ways that AI is coming for our jobs, creating a lot of anxiety and fear. But a recent survey from Mi..."

"Guests of this podcast often share Miro templates. I use it all the time to brainstorm ideas with my team. Teams especially can work with Miro AI to turn [music] unstructured data like sticky notes or..."

">> So how is it that you're piling it? Is it there's a some number of people have access to these agents and they just work the way they've worked with access to these tools or is there like a team de..."

">> Wow. So this might be the future of the APM program is this full stack builder APMish program. >> In many ways we're taking we've built some pretty amazing I'm really excited for that group. I wish..."

">> divided by time. >> Divided by time. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Got it. And I guess I know it's early but just you said it's you're seeing that it's saving teams a few hours a week at this point. Something ..."

"they're using it and the quality we've seen there. I would say in six months or so, we'll be able to see a lot more of the organization use it and you'll start seeing kind of those topline numbers wil..."

"vast majority needs to work for change management in how they do it. And that requires being a lot more thoughtful about the cultural aspect of it, which is by far for me the biggest and most importan..."

"one might feel slow at first, but I've seen this before with our transformation from desktop to mobile and and once it picks up, it actually maintains very high velocity. >> One, you know, people are ..."

"uh that movement but celebrating wins in all hands highlighting people and showing those examples you know one example we've seen recently really looked at it in a surprise lens, but then it kind of I..."

"kind of comparison to the shift to mobile. That's ex like we all went through that and there's all these stories of companies requiring you to show mobile mocks. That's like the only way we're going t..."

"seen some of our best talent just goes and leans a lot into. I love that. Uh I was going to actually mention that quote someone you shared you work with told me exactly that quote you just shared. So ..."

"getting people to more try this on their own without joining this program? A lot of the tools we've made, we've been sharing them regularly. We've done all like a few of my all hands have been all abo..."

"invitation to go and explore and and go and bring in stuff that you think are great and in many ways like you know bring others along on the journey. It's it's one of one good way to kind of make the ..."

"if you know uh a lot of the companies we work with are seeing this as a great growth opportunity for them as well to invest. But I do think it's it's a big area of investment as well. We talked about ..."

"quality but I think it's because again where we are in the stage is still the early adopters and they're doing a few iterations in terms of how to do it, but I would say like the tooling adoption is h..."

"are gradually >> putting people in that bucket. >> So there's a whole career ladder that's forming. There's a whole Okay, that's a that's a bigger deal than I even thought. So, where are you finding t..."

"specific. >> No, I I think it's like I think it's a mental model of how you do it. I think, you know, if I were to play like what's the hardest craft to potentially learn, I think design has a lot mor..."

"get better. So they're >> it doesn't matter what they learn at school or what's their what label somebody put on them when they join the company. What I love about a lot of this is this is the it's th..."

"you build. So the incentives are really aligned between what you need for your own career and what the organization needs you to to do. So there's that that permission to go and do it for me is uh ide..."

"really important I would think a lot about how you bring people along so for one of the learnings we had that probably I will do differently right now if I were to redo this program was for a while I ..."

"see it with some people. Uh but starting to collect those examples and starting to really think about the transformation is really key. >> This is so incredibly cool. I know that a lot of CPOs and hea..."

"explanations we go for which is oh it's culture, it's natural resources, it's the uh it's the kind of religion. This is you know a lot of those kind of tends to be the kind of immediate excuse that pe..."

"called outlive uh it's really about kind of the idea it's kind of like you know the author Peter talks about the idea of medicine 3 which is really uh the notion of like building personalized medicine..."

">> In my bookshelf behind me. >> Here you go. >> It's up top. You can't actually see it, I think. >> And then lastly, uh it's a book that also came out many years ago, but it's called The Beginning of..."

"movie or TV show you really enjoyed? >> Can I do a podcast? >> Absolutely. >> Uh so there's a podcast in it's in Hebrew. Uh it's called one song and it takes a song that you know generally is ideally ..."

"recently discovered that you really love? Could be an app, could be some clothing, could be a kitchen gadget, tech gadget. >> Uh, can it can it be an can be a a product I want to have, which I think i..."

">> On that note I recently discovered Teslas actually do this now. If you hold the right wheel Grock appears and you could talk to Grock. >> Huh. >> So it's here. The AI has arrived. Yeah. I was just ..."

"two more questions. Do you have a life motto that you often find useful in work or in life? I >> think last time I talked about that I most associated here with I might be wrong, but I'm not confused...."

"the time this episode comes out uh it won't be a secret that you're leaving LinkedIn after 14 years a legendary run you joined way before the acquisition. You help them integrate. You just like the wa..."

">> I think it's going to take a long time for you to not feel like you're working at LinkedIn and to like forget about all the things that you have been worrying about for so many years. you know, aft..."