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Why You Should Write Less Dialogue — Clint Bentley and Greg Kwedar

Why You Should Write Less Dialogue — Clint Bentley and Greg Kwedar

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This episode is brought to you by Basecamp, the world’s simplest, most effective project management platform. Check them out at https://basecamp.com and tell them David Perell sent you. Clint Bentley and Greg Kwedar are the two brilliant minds behind Train Dreams, the Oscar-nominated adaptation of Denis Johnson’s novella. Their film is emotionally devastating in ways that stay with you long after the credits roll. In this interview, I wanted to understand how that kind of film actually gets made. We talk about how they taught themselves filmmaking by building a mental archive of references, how a single frame can unlock an entire scene, and why adapting a book often requires stepping away from its words. This episode is an exploration into how two directors think together, and how a deeply human story becomes something monumental. 00:00:00 Building a reference bank 00:05:10 Borrowing ideas from other films 00:08:32 Why write a mission statement 00:13:14 Adapting a book for film 00:20:19 Bringing a place to life 00:30:22 Editing a screenplay 00:38:44 Real life, but cinematic 00:45:46 How filmmakers think 00:52:07 How to get feedback 00:56:02 Beware of too much dialogue 01:00:23 Let the story guide you 01:09:13 What makes a great soundtrack 01:12:13 Mantras they return to *About the host* Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. *Follow me* Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell

Segments Timeline

1
0:00 - 4:15
4:15 duration741 words

The Journey of Consumption

Exploration of how film consumption shapes creative perspectives and storytelling in filmmaking.

"Tell me about the process of consumption over the years, watching films, watching movies, and how that builds a kind of mental bank that you can pull from as you're writing, as you're shooting films. ..."

2
4:15 - 9:08
4:53 duration850 words

Collaboration and Learning

A discussion on the influence of collaborative relationships in shaping one's understanding of cinema.

"Yeah. And it even goes back to like how are you to your first question about like what are you consuming and all that. It's like how do you remain a student? And we were talking before we started reco..."

3
9:08 - 13:42
4:34 duration864 words

Mission Statement in Filmmaking

Exploring the importance of having a guiding principle in the creative process.

"Tell me about your guys work together and we'll talk about the mission statement that you guys wrote early on. And you know what? Let's start there. Let's talk about the mission statement. I never hea..."

4
13:42 - 19:46
6:04 duration863 words

Adapting Literature to Film

Insights on the challenges and considerations when transforming a novella into a screenplay.

"So as you're thinking through what the film's going to be, you read the book, how do you go from I found this novella to a script, choosing what to include, choosing what not to include? Cuz >> I watc..."

5
19:46 - 25:11
5:25 duration864 words

Grounding Stories in Their Sources

The importance of authenticity and roots in the creative process when adapting stories.

"It's happened like four times already. These little nuggets are like I want to throw that right back in. It's a good catchphrase and I think that's outside of like getting deeper into that one thing i..."

6
25:11 - 28:49
3:38 duration1244 words

Experiencing the Environment

The necessity of being deeply embedded in the locations that inspire storytelling.

"Given that we were adapting this work, you know, anytime we were in the car out in that world, we were listening to the audio book of Train Dreams narrated by Will Patton, who now narrates the film, a..."

7
28:49 - 30:21
1:32 duration426 words

Crafting the Script with Patience

Understanding the refinement process in writing and the importance of collaboration in film creation.

"Um, and this very like this more structural thing that now I think is like actually the foundational element and the rest is is how how you're getting that out there. Um, but that thing that just like..."

8
30:21 - 39:36
9:15 duration1602 words

Emotional Impact through Narrative

Discussions on conveying subtle emotions and building characters that resonate with authenticity.

"You know, my sense is if you looked at the number of words in various screenplays, train Dreams would be all the way to the left side in terms of there's not that many words in the film, but then ther..."

9
39:36 - 0:00
-40:-36 duration1158 words

The Subtlety of Emotion in Film

Insights into capturing subtle emotional tones and avoiding melodrama in storytelling.

"You talk about the spirit. So I uh you know, pretty outgoing guy, outgoing enough. And uh I uh had just left the theater and I walk over to a bar down the street. It was a sort of bar, coffee shop typ..."

10
0:00 - 47:13
47:13 duration219 words

The Power of Artistic Collaboration

Exploring the synergy of various art forms in storytelling and the true definition of success in directing.

"writing, you got the visuals, you got the sound, you got 363 other things and it is this sort of consilience of different art forms that that that comes together. >> Yeah. No, I do think it is the gre..."

11
47:13 - 48:44
1:31 duration252 words

Ambition in Filmmaking

Discussing the balance between ambition and feasibility in the context of first films.

">> Does the word ambition ring a bell in what you're saying or is it something different? >> Sure. I mean, just because I'm a very ambitious person. >> Well, I thought I saw something. I thought I saw..."

12
48:44 - 50:15
1:31 duration292 words

Crafting Authentic Love Stories

Delving into what makes a love story feel real and the dynamics of relationships on screen.

"When you're writing, thinking through the early stages of a love story, >> what matters in order to make that story feel real? Because this comes back to that theme of not having it be so over the top..."

13
50:15 - 51:47
1:32 duration229 words

Balancing Relationship Dynamics

Examining how to portray the complexities of love and conflict in relationships on screen.

">> But even that, I I watched that last night. I thought about that that had this sort of loving sharpness, >> of course, because like they're not like And that's the thing I think it's kind of like a..."

14
51:47 - 56:18
4:31 duration208 words

Receiving Feedback in Filmmaking

The importance of feedback in the creative process and how to manage it effectively.

">> Feedback. How do you go about getting feedback at different stages of making a film? like feedback in the scripting. >> We have different answers on this. >> I've evolved >> at the beginning. I adm..."

15
56:18 - 58:31
2:13 duration260 words

The Role of Dialogue in Film

Advice on using dialogue effectively and how it evolves through the filmmaking process.

"Tell me about the piece of advice you guys got early on to beware of having too much dialogue and not to lean on that. What was the thinking behind that? >> Oh, it's a it was a mentor of ours and a go..."

16
58:31 - 1:00:54
2:23 duration230 words

Finding Rhythm in Editing

The significance of rhythm in film editing and how soundtracks contribute to that rhythm.

"There was a great like great piece of voiceover that we wrote uh like that was like there's a scene where he's sitting by a lakeside or Grineer sitting by a lakeside after he's like left logging and I..."

17
1:00:54 - 1:02:26
1:32 duration192 words

Evolving Your Story

The necessity of allowing stories to evolve organically during the filmmaking process.

"Well, tell me about how you let the story guide you. You know, like at what point, I would imagine you start off this idea of a story and then at some point we're talking about a little bit earlier wh..."

18
1:02:26 - 1:08:31
6:05 duration172 words

The Creative Process: Finding Endings

The importance of discovering the right ending for a film and how it can differ from initial ideas.

"One interesting uh data point is that of the four films we've released, all four have a different ending than what we started shooting. Huh. I don't know what to make of that. But I think that I think..."

19
1:08:31 - 1:13:03
4:32 duration162 words

Music and Sound in Film

Discussing the challenges of matching music to film and the emotional impact of soundtracks.

"I think that thing of just like making it all going back to that what we were saying about like not wanting the viewer or the audience to know what is improv and what is written. It's all of a piece a..."

20
1:13:03 - 1:13:13
0:10 duration184 words

Maxims for Collaboration

Sharing valuable maxims and lessons learned from experience in filmmaking.

"Let's close here. as you guys think of maxims, mantras that you come back to in your work together, have you developed some or I think that my dad used to always uh which is very annoying when I was a..."