"I think that animals are a really great thought experiment when we're thinking about Ai and Robotics because again this comparing them to humans that leads us down the wrong path both because it's not..."

"The New Breed what our history with animals reveals about our future with robots Kate is one of my favorite people at MIT she was a courageous voice of reason and compassion through the time of the Je..."

"moments of your life uh proudest decisions you've ever made definitely you handled it really well though it was cool because I walked in I didn't know you were going to be filming I walked in and you'..."

"you open the book with the surprisingly tricky question what is a robot so let me ask you let's try to sneak up to this question what's a robot that's not really sneaking up it's just asking it yeah a..."

"autonomously and then act on its environment again I think that's a pretty good technical definition even though it really breaks down when you come to things like the smartphone because the smartphon..."

"because you still want to have a connection which is why the similarity might be necessary that's what people argue yes and I think that's true so the two arguments for humanoid robots are people need..."

"cues that can be used to anthropomorphize the thing like a glowing orb or something like that yeah just just a voice just uh just subtle basic interaction I think people sometimes over engineer these ..."

"so right and and and what a time to be alive because for me I just we've had robots for so long and they've just been behind the scenes and now finally robots are getting deployed into the world they'..."

"HRI they like the have you seen the grocery store robot in the Stop and Shop yes yeah the Marty it looks like a giant penis it's like six feet tall it roams the aisles I will never see marketing the s..."

"and so we were like that's interesting and then we did this like online poll we used Mechanical Turk and we tried to get at what people don't like about Marty and a lot of it wasn't oh Marty's taking ..."

"artificial agents I think people hate them more than they would some other machine or device or object and it might and it might be that thing it might be combined with love or like whatever it is it'..."

"and it has its own personality the more personality you give it the more it feels like it's not sharing data with anybody else like when we see other human beings our basic assumption is whatever I sa..."

"connection is right I haven't looked into I mean I've seen people joking about it on Twitter and like posting like that whatever yeah but I mean have you seen it because it there's something you can't..."

"well I talked to Carmack about this uh John Carmack who's a part-time um Oculus CTO I think uh there's several things to say one is as you probably know that I mean there's bureaucracy there's large c..."

"human connection is taking risks of making a risky joke of of of like with people you like who are not assholes good people like some of the fun some of the fun in the metaverse OR in video games is y..."

"and large companies tend to suffocate that so I but in general if you get all that just the ability to come up really cool beautiful ideas if you look at uh I think Grimes tweeted about this she's ver..."

"work to some degree but they kill the creativity I think the killing of the creativity is in the whole like Okay so some social robotics is like obviously if you create agents that okay so take for an..."

"why aren't we doing that the problem is there's departments that look for harm and things yeah and so they will find harm in things that have no harm okay that's the big problem because their whole jo..."

"what's the way to solve that in large organizations is to have Steve Jobs types of characters unfortunately you do need to have I think um from a designer or maybe like a Johnny Ive that is almost lik..."

"time I agree PR people ruin everything yeah all the fun uh in the uh in the book you have a picture this I just have a lot of ridiculous questions you have a picture of two Hospital delivery robots wi..."

"right you're opening a can of worms for no reason for no reason you can avoid this whole camera yeah just give it a different name like why Roxy it's because people aren't even thinking so to some ext..."

"they did marketing research and nobody wanted the male voice everyone wanted it to be female what do you what do you think about that like what I mean if I if I were to say I think the role of a great..."

"going to be but do you think it's still useful to gender and to name the robots yes I mean gender is the minefields but people I it's really hard to get people to not gender a robot in some way so if ..."

"that's a good point and so like you want to be able to like they're going to do it you have to start to think about how they're going to do it even if the robot is like a Boston Dynamics robot that's ..."

"them in factories and so they they have fun with it if you watch Boston Dynamics videos yeah they're aware of it oh yeah they're I mean the videos for sure that they put out it's almost like an unspok..."

"wearing he or she I don't know was wearing a cowboy hat it just it was just walking down the hall and nobody paying attention and it's just like walking down this long Hall and I'm like looking around..."

"things that I think companies are underestimating that people will either love a robot or hate a robot and nothing in between so it's just again an exciting time to be alive yeah I think kids almost u..."

"robots yeah physical robots well like what are you impressed by so I think a lot of people I mean that's what your book is about is have maybe a not a perfectly calibrated understanding of where we ar..."

"that's what people don't realize sort of the physical manipulation tasks with humans it's not that the robots want to hurt you I think that's what people are worried about like this malevolent robot g..."

"different skill sets so while a robot might take over a task it's not going to take over most jobs um I think just things will change a lot like I know one of the examples I have in the book is mining..."

"um but it's really easy to say that from a bird's eye perspective and um ignore kind of the the rubble on the ground as we go through these transitions because of course specific jobs are going to get..."

"humans with animals together yeah you can't just have that's true dog with a hat that's fair but yes and but figuring out also how to uh disable the mine obviously the easy thing the thing a robot can..."

"do a lot of the driving and then the reason that we still don't have autonomous vehicles on all the roads yet is because of this long tail of just unexpected occurrences where a human immediately unde..."

"incredible progress has been made in that direction I think most of the robotics Community wouldn't have guessed how much you can do on Vision alone it's kind of incredible um because we would be I th..."

"artificial intelligence not just uh not just perception yeah like you have to have a deep understanding of the world it's always my sense but now I'm starting to like well this I mean I'm continuously..."

"driver it feels like shit I don't know are you right to drive bro you know that kind of feeling good but but then you kind of that experience that nervousness um and the excitement of trusting another..."

"about any kind of surveillance but the thing that I've had to learn is that Twitter is not the modern world like when I go you know Inland to visit my relatives like they don't that's a different disc..."

"I don't is that is that a website I hate to check it out um and that's an interesting one because China is behind that one exactly uh so it's compelling enough maybe people would be able to uh give up..."

"and one of the things that I'm trying to be cynical about is that I think they're gonna have a big impact on privacy and data security and like manipulating consumers and manipulating people because s..."

"her she's amazing she's hilarious and Brilliant and just a great summarizer of the state of AI but she has um I think that was from her where I was looking at uh AI explaining that it's a squirrel oh ..."

"squirrel would would say are you excited like what's it like being a squirrel that's fun okay I get to eat nuts and run around all day uh like how do you think people feel like when you tell them that..."

"able to do with this and and that my kids are not going to remember a time before they could have conversations with artificial agents do you think they would because to me this is uh the focus in the..."

"yeah I think I think that's true and I think that one of the things that bothered me about all of the coverage in the tech press about this incident like obviously I don't believe the system is sentie..."

"and be very aware of so one of the really interesting perspectives that your book takes on a system like this is to see them not to compare something like this to humans but to compare it to animals o..."

"there like you can't you can't have a conversation with a squirrel right but the the point you do it all the time oh really by the way squirrels are the cutest I project so much on squirrels I wonder ..."

"similar things with robots so I think it's a useful analogy it's not a perfect one but I think it's it helps us get away from this idea that robots can shoot or will replace people if you remember wha..."

"also pigeons of course oh yeah pigeons oh my gosh there's so many examples the pitch I mean the pigeons were the original hobby photography drone they also carried mail for thousands of years letting ..."

"that's different across cultures and I'm convinced that we're going to see the same thing with robots um where people are going to develop strong emotional connections to certain robots that they rela..."

"elements that play in I wonder if there's good because I understand dogs because they use their eyes they're able to communicate affection all those kinds of things it's really interesting what dogs d..."

"kind of beautiful I think robots are uh beautiful in the same way that pets are even children in that like they capture some kind of magic of uh social robots they have the capacity to have the same k..."

"know and that like where you wake up to like uh that excitement of seeing somebody you know and saying hello and all that kind of stuff that's a magical moment like uh I think especially with the dog ..."

"think you're right and I think that that's that's the game changing changing nature of things like these large language learning models and the fact that these companies are investing in embodied vers..."

"imagine PR and marketing people they're gonna freak out they don't have the guts it's going to have to come from somebody from a new Apple from those kinds of folks like it's a small startup and it mi..."

"using the business model that you've used in other domains then you're going to have to collect data from people which you will anyway to personalize the thing and you're going to be somehow monetizin..."

"people will trust you to give to if for you to use that data but then how are companies gonna I mean a lot of these applications rely on massive throws of data to train the AI system right so you have..."

"give you a hundred dollars I'd tell you a secret no not a hundred dollars uh first of all you wouldn't uh you wouldn't trust like why are you giving me a hundred dollars it's a bad example but but lik..."

"it could and the harm that I'm concerned about is not that the system is going to then suggest a dress for me that is based on my preferences so I I went to this conference once where I was talking to..."

"it's not really clear that that came from that person's data it came from all of us all of us opting into this but there there's a bunch of sneaky decisions along the way that could be avoided if ther..."

"good at Learning so not the kind of things that the category of people it thinks you belong to would do but more you specifically what makes you happy what is helping you grow but you're assuming that..."

"though they know that you're being paid they trust you yeah it's different with podcasts because uh well my particular situation but it's true for a lot of pockets especially big ones is you know I ha..."

"distinguish that from entertainment I know it's trying to sell me something now it's getting really really murky with influencers and then if you have like a bot that that a kid has developed a relati..."

"what about Elon musk's humanoid is he gonna execute on that there might be a lot to say so for people who are not aware there's an Optimus Tesla's Optimus robot that's um I guess the stated reason for..."

"that's true because we're much this we're I I think being shitty as stuff is kind of uh what makes relationships great like you want to be flawed and be able to communicate your flaws and be unpredict..."

"Robotics in the physical Space is really difficult so um I think I've learned to not discount the the efforts that Elon does there's a few things that are really interesting there one because he's tak..."

"principles what is the minimum amount of uh degrees of freedom we need what are the joints where's the control set like how many how do we act like where are the activators uh what's the way to power ..."

"they might it's like similar with Boston Dynamics like why like if I were to you can be a hater and be and you go go up to Mark Robert and just like how are you gonna make money with these like super ..."

"to just like make a humanoid robot to go in there I I just get really tripped up on I think that people want humanoids I think people are fascinated by them I think it's a little over hyped well most ..."

"or so on right as we've talked about and I think that's probably where a lot of the meaningful impact that's going to be happening yeah I think just we could get so creative with the design like why n..."

"can enhance people's engagement with a device but can embodiment be a virtual thing also meaning like it has a body in the virtual world like maybe makes you feel like because what makes a body a body..."

"depends what's shown on on the 2D screen yeah yeah I think there's a ton of different factors and there's different types of embodiment like you can have embodiment in a virtual world you can have an ..."

"was wonderful I think that's true and I think that's what happened with the Lambda thing not that I don't none of the transcript was about suffering but it was about having the capacity for suffering ..."

"was um my experience with it was that it's it's like um they quickly become like you remember them uh you you um you you miss them like they're real living beings so the capacity of yourself or is is ..."

"so I was uh the sensors don't it doesn't know about pain see what I'm sorry to say Roomba doesn't understand pain uh so you have to correctly map the the sensors the timing to the production of the so..."

"what I say the chatbot being subtly racist and the question whether it's ethical for companies to charge for software upgrades yeah so uh can we break that down uh what do you mean by that yeah obviou..."

"really tricky one with these voice voice agents that companies are going to have to figure out and that's why it's subtly racist and not overtly because I think they're going to be able to solve the o..."

"we're talking about robot dogs robot dogs the IBO yeah the the original like famous robot dog that Sony made came out in the 90s got discontinued having funerals for them in Japan now they have a new ..."

"want that's that's the question uh back to marriage what about all the money that it costs to get married and then all the money that it costs to get a divorce that feels like a very like uh that's li..."

"yeah it is a serious question of sort of like um like it's such a difficult problem to solve now of course like bias and so on like there's a little hanging fruit which I think was a lot of people are..."

"I think there's a difficult challenge here is because even the premise you started with that essentially racism is bad um I think we live in a society today where the definition of racism is different..."

"and one you know one group of people starts yelling at me and then I change it the way that they said and then another group of people starts yelling at me which has happened this this happened to me ..."

"I don't know if that makes sense like it's a responsibility thing and I'm I can be as well intentioned as I want and I'm still going to make mistakes and that is part of the existing power structures ..."

"I didn't I mean it's happened to me and that's what I did was I listened to those sides and I chose I tried to get information and then I I decided that I was going to use autistic children and now mo..."

"they'll say the brand word they'll be uh you know if you look at different demographics that are inspired by your work I think it's insensitive to them let's not mention this anymore like there's this..."

"they had integrity and they didn't put you know the survival of the institution first but I feel like you have to I just to be a good leader you have to be responsible and understand that with great p..."

"based on the things you've like based on learning from like listening to people and learning from what they what they feel and the same goes from the institution yeah yeah but I ultimately actually be..."

"um from the fact that somebody like Jeffrey Epstein found his way inside MIT it's a really good question what have I learned about human nature I think well there's there's how did this problem come a..."

"they have integrity in a way they're just living out their asshole values yeah and the cowards are the ones that you have to watch out for and this comes back to people protecting themselves over doin..."

"environment was so misogynist like and so personally because Joey like was a great boss and a great friend it I was really disappointed that he ignored that in favor of raising money um and I think th..."

"the entire bathroom like rip things out of the walls like toilet paper on the ground and he asked someone who had been there longer like why do they do this why do the homeless people come in and tras..."

"have no other power you're going to focus all of your energy on someone who's so far removed from the problem that that's not even an efficient solution and the problem is often the the first person y..."

"picture of human nature versus like specific situation but also take some responsibility and um but also defend the people involved as flawed not you know like no no nothing like like this people fuck..."

"again because when you are at the top of an institution that much power and you were complicit in what happened which they were like come on there's no way that they didn't know that this was happenin..."

"with them what do you understand about human nature from that well so I never met Epstein or I mean I've met some of the people who interacted with him but I was never like I never saw him in action I..."

"and most people probably don't check yeah and most people don't check like you're on an event you meet this guy I don't know maybe people do check when they're that powerful and wealthy or maybe they ..."

"to infiltrate yeah just being just saying the right way of people vouching for you within that type of network like once you yeah once you have someone powerful vouching for you who someone else trust..."

"can genuinely regret and like learn and and move on and he was a big believer in that so I could totally see him being like well I'm not gonna exclude him because of this thing and because other peopl..."

"the problem go away yeah so that it was it was about yeah exactly making the conversation I think he should have left the mailing they shouldn't have he shouldn't have been part of the mailing well th..."

"see from people and people like stallman do not respond that way they just like go into battle right like where it's obvious you you didn't listen yeah no not just in listening honestly that's to me a..."

"doesn't mean that they're aren't like deeply hurtful to others and I don't mean that in the social justice Warrior way but in a in a in a real world like people really have different experiences so I ..."

"reason and try to understand it yeah there's a deep truth there uh and an opportunity for you to become a better person can I ask you a question why haven't you been doing that for two hours three hou..."

"family is saying that she's a good she's a really good human being well I think everyone is a good human being I know it's a controversial opinion but I think everyone is a good human being there's no..."

"was a victim but I don't know I wish I have met Epstein because something tells me he would just be a regular person a charismatic person like anybody else and that's a very dark reality that we don't..."

"I'm gonna talk I talked to a priest I'll talk to her again she's great love her yeah she's great I don't know if she knew the whole situation when she started because the situation went beyond just th..."

"learned a lot about how institutions really handle those things internally um particularly situations where I couldn't provide evidence that it happened I had no reason to lie about it but I had no ev..."

"connection to the research body and like the people who are really because it's so weird you have this amazing research body of people pushing the boundaries of things who aren't afraid to like there'..."

"Administration they think the students are children they call them kids it's like these are the smartest people they're way smarter than you yeah and you're so dismissive but those individuals I'm say..."

"and like and that has to do with a lot of things including um does it is it stays even if we talk about robotics it could be the capital of the world in robotics but currently if you want to be doing ..."

"guys seem to have a really great marriage from the external I mean every marriage looks good from the external every I think yeah that's that's not true but yeah okay relationships have hard relations..."

"so yeah did you put in the well yeah those are vows like that we're just we're gonna be a team you're a team and do what's right for the team yeah yeah that's very like Michael Jordan view uh uh do yo..."

"podcast you have an announcement to make no what I don't know it just seems like a good metaphor for why why why what it felt like a good metaphor for in a bunch of cases for the uh marriage industria..."

"everyone involved yeah but it happens so yeah I was and brought that up as an example of something that people actually love but they complain about because for some reason that's more fun to do is co..."

"one that we add you dedicate your book to your dad what did you learn about life from your dad oh man my dad is he's a great listener and he is the best person I know at um the type of cognitive empat..."

"I agree beautifully put okay this is awesome I still didn't talk about half the things I want to talk about but we're already like way over three hours so thank you so much I really appreciate you tal..."