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Unleashing the Future of Publishing | Jimmy Soni & Liberty RPF | Episode 157
56 segments available
Friend-of-the-show (and new O’Shaughnessy Ventures team member) Liberty RPF joins Jim and fellow friend-of-the-show Jimmy Soni to discuss the current state of the publishing industry and the new opportunities emerging for current and aspiring authors. Important Links: - Jimmy’s Website https://jimmysoni.com - Jimmy’s Twitter https://twitter.com/jimmyasoni - Liberty’s Newsletter https://www.libertyrpf.com - Liberty’s Twitter https://twitter.com/libertyrpf - 10 Reasons Why I’m Publishing My Next Book on Substack https://tedgioia.substack.com/p/10-reasons-why-im-publishing-my-next - Kurt Vonnegut: Unstuck in Time https://www.altitude.film/not-found 00:00 Start 01:19 Main Podcast 03:13 How has the publishing industry changed? 10:09 Reinventing the audiobook 14:41 The living book 19:53 Towards new book pricing models 26:07 Why the traditional publishing industry is becoming unsustainable 30:06 The tragedy of unwritten books 31:26 A rejection from a traditional publisher is meaningless 37:36 What do traditional publishers do well? 42:15 The importance being invested in the success of a product 49:58 Leveraging AI & other tools in the writing process 01:01:21 Why the publishing industry is successful 01:03:46 Increasing the power of individual creators 01:10:29 Change, prestige & disruption 01:20:36 Playing the right kind of status games 01:28:08 Aligning quality with meritocracy Books Mentioned: - The Founders; by Jimmy Soni - A Mind at Play; by Jimmy Soni & Rob Goodman - Rome's Last Citizen: The Life and Legacy of Cato, Mortal Enemy of Caesar; by Jimmy Soni & Rob Goodman - What Works on Wall Street; by Jim O'Shaughnessy - Invest Like The Best; by Jim O'Shaughnessy - Can't Hurt Me: Master Your Mind and Defy the Odds; by David Goggins - The Psychology of Money; by Morgan Housel - The 4-Hour Work Week: Escape the 9-5, Live Anywhere and Join the New Rich; by Tim Feriss - Harry Potter; by J. K. Rowling - Reality Hunger; by David Shields - $100M Offers: How To Make Offers So Good People Feel Stupid Saying No; by Alex Hormozi - The Status Game: On Social Position and How We Use It; by Will Storr
Segments Timeline
The Meaninglessness of Traditional Rejections
In today's publishing landscape, a rejection from a traditional publisher holds little weight. Authors can now publish independently through platforms like Amazon or hybrid publishers like Scribe Media. This segment discusses the shift from an oligopoly of traditional publishing to a creator-driven model, emphasizing the importance of self-publishing and the opportunities it presents for aspiring authors.
"a rejection from a traditional publisher in the modern era is utterly utterly meaningless you could upload it to Amazon right now and publish it you could work with scribe Media or page 2 a hybr..."
The Shift to Creator Empowerment
The conversation highlights how the pendulum has swung back in favor of creators, allowing them to bypass traditional gatekeepers. The hosts reflect on the past when authors faced numerous rejections and the lack of alternatives, contrasting it with the current environment where authors can take control of their publishing journey.
"favor I'm holding up an old BlackBerry I think that they're even behind this there was an ERA where if you got your book proposal rejected a dozen times you just stopped we are not in that era a..."
The Publishing Industry's Stagnation
The hosts discuss the outdated practices of traditional publishing, likening it to an old BlackBerry in a digital age. They share personal experiences of disappointment with traditional publishers, emphasizing the need for innovation and adaptation in the industry to meet modern author needs.
"some easy maybe maybe potentially easy industries that are just begging to be disintermediated if you go to our website at osb.llc you will see a lot of verticals and that might give you a timing ..."
Authors as CEOs of Their Work
Jimmy Soni emphasizes that modern authors must adopt an entrepreneurial mindset, acting as the CEO and CMO of their own publishing operations. This segment explores the necessity for authors to take charge of their marketing and distribution strategies in a rapidly changing publishing landscape.
"my guests today are two of my favorite people Jimmy Sony who's written three of my favorite books Jimmy I mean my God you had me with Claude Shannon and then like the founders and I'm gonna and ..."
The Audiobook Revolution
The discussion shifts to the rise of audiobooks and how they have transformed the reading experience. The hosts highlight the need for innovation in audiobook production, sharing examples of successful formats that enhance the listener's experience beyond traditional readings.
"who are incredibly lazy like me hundreds of hours of our time so I you know I pay virtually any price he was chat gpt3 before there was definitely it was baby with foreign so so today we're going ..."
Innovating Audiobook Formats
The segment delves into how audiobooks can be more than just a reading of the text. The hosts discuss innovative approaches, such as including discussions or commentary from authors, which can add value and depth to the audiobook experience, contrasting it with traditional publishing's reluctance to adapt.
"about this but my experience I've written four books with three separate Publishers and I'm not going to name names but I'm going to tell our audience that in my experience back when I was publi..."
The Missed Opportunities in Audiobook Production
The conversation highlights the missed opportunities in traditional audiobook production, where publishers often stick to outdated models. The hosts argue for a more dynamic approach that leverages the unique characteristics of audio formats to engage listeners and enhance the storytelling experience.
"I don't want you to say anything negative but have you gotten just as has the publishing industry just magically transformed and it's completely different today because after all I haven't publi..."
The Living Book Concept
Liberty RPF introduces the concept of the 'living book,' which evolves and interacts with readers over time. This segment discusses how authors can maintain ongoing relationships with their audience through digital platforms, allowing for updates and engagement beyond the initial publication.
"book three iterations digital the audio and the hardcover and it's on you everything's on you and you know again like I've had my share of traditional publishing experiences but I have found tha..."
Building Relationships with Readers
The hosts explore ways authors can foster ongoing connections with their readers through various media. They discuss the potential for integrating podcasts, newsletters, and interactive content to create a more engaging and dynamic reading experience.
"appetizer I I think that's a great appetizer and you know audiobooks spring to mind and I'm going to steal a lot of your ideas uh but it seems to me that in a digital age and I guess this would be..."
The Importance of Direct Reader Engagement
The segment emphasizes the need for authors to engage directly with their readers, moving away from traditional publishing's restrictive models. The hosts discuss how leveraging digital tools can enhance reader relationships and create a more personalized experience.
"tell the world and then I'm gonna have Michael talk a bit about the living book but my point of view is that I think publishing even when I was doing it back in the 90s it was a very um listen I..."
Innovative Marketing Strategies for Authors
The hosts discuss innovative marketing strategies that authors can employ to reach their audience effectively. They highlight the importance of reducing friction in the reader's journey, making it easier for potential readers to engage with an author's work.
"Manhattan aren't talking about a subject it doesn't exist and it made me think of the old Pauline kale who used to be the uh film critic for the New Yorker um she after Nixon won the presidency ..."
The Future of Publishing: Embracing Change
The conversation shifts to the broader implications of the changes in the publishing industry. The hosts discuss how embracing innovation and adapting to new technologies can lead to a more vibrant and accessible publishing landscape for both authors and readers.
"is this is a challenge of any big organization in any industry which is when change happens big organizations have a really really hard time adapting it's why the Netflix transformation story is..."
The Rise of Audiobooks
In this segment, the discussion centers around the increasing popularity of audiobooks as a means of reducing friction in the publishing process. The speakers highlight how audiobooks allow readers to consume content while multitasking, such as walking the dog, and explore the potential of peer-to-peer networking and platforms like Substack for authors to innovate in their publishing strategies.
"a book is a hard sell for a lot of people and so that's why the audiobook is so popular people can listen to it while walking the dog and that that reduces friction but there's all kinds of other ..."
Experimenting with Book Pricing
The conversation shifts to the idea of experimenting with variable pricing models for books. The speakers discuss the potential for authors to release interview tapes and other content as part of their marketing strategy, emphasizing the low cost of digital experimentation and the need for innovation in traditional publishing practices.
"stack I saw the the piece where the guy was going to write his next entire book on substaff yeah um and and and it just seems to me to cry out for a b testing right it doesn't it doesn't mean we..."
Self-Publishing vs. Traditional Publishing
This segment addresses the misconceptions surrounding traditional publishing and encourages aspiring authors to consider self-publishing or hybrid publishing options. The speakers argue that authors can achieve greater financial success and creative control by bypassing traditional publishers, who often take a significant portion of royalties.
"um I don't want to give up the the the book that you're currently working on uh Jimmy unless you're willing to but like you when we talked offline you have all these amazing well let's let's act..."
The Erosion of Traditional Publishing
The discussion highlights the diminishing advantages of traditional publishing in the modern era. The speakers point out that authors are increasingly recognizing the limitations of traditional publishers, including low royalties and lack of creative control, leading to a shift towards self-publishing and hybrid models.
"want to do books just know you don't have to have a book contract to do a book I and I will speak from personal experience and be very very candid I am talking to authors who regularly almost week..."
The Value of Creative Control
In this segment, the speakers emphasize the importance of creative control for authors. They discuss how traditional publishers often impose restrictions that limit an author's ability to market their work effectively, and they advocate for a model where authors retain more control over their content and revenue.
"on your own and I think that's because of digital tools it's because of on-demand printing it's because of a million things that have happened that have made this process easier but my my view i..."
The Changing Landscape of Publishing Tools
The conversation shifts to the evolving landscape of publishing tools and platforms. The speakers discuss how new platforms like Substack and Beehive are providing better opportunities for creators, allowing them to retain a larger share of their revenue compared to traditional publishers.
"publisher because all of the incentives will be in the direction of hybrid or self-published yeah and incentives uh like tell the tale right it amazes me how many people don't get that I have ha..."
The Fairness of Revenue Distribution
This segment focuses on the fairness of revenue distribution in the publishing industry. The speakers argue that traditional publishers take an excessive share of royalties, while platforms like Substack allow creators to keep a larger portion of their earnings, fostering a more equitable environment for authors.
"you mean as far as platform and Alternatives oh all of all of those things there's a lot and what's interesting is that these things are moving targets for Publishers right because Publishers ar..."
Empowering Creators in Publishing
The speakers discuss the empowerment of creators in the publishing industry, highlighting how the shift towards self-publishing and hybrid models is giving authors more freedom and control over their work. They emphasize the importance of direct relationships between authors and their readers.
"wrong that 85 percent of Jimmy's Revenue that he's earning right people are giving dollars to read Jimmy's word not to buy the book from publisher X that they're going to someone else so this is..."
The Tragedy of Unwritten Books
In this poignant segment, the speakers reflect on the tragedy of unwritten books that never see the light of day due to the barriers imposed by traditional publishing. They discuss how many potential authors are discouraged by the lengthy and complex publishing process, leading to a loss of valuable ideas and stories.
"side because that's where most of the value is and now the distribution has been commodized but that's just my guess and and of course that that was the whole reason for us Adventures right yep ..."
Encouraging New Voices
The conversation emphasizes the need to encourage new voices in the publishing world. The speakers advocate for a culture where aspiring authors feel empowered to share their ideas and stories, regardless of traditional publishing barriers, and highlight the importance of creating an environment that fosters creativity.
"if I can add something and something that's very very dear to my art right and and we talked a bit about this with David Center on their last podcast but the real tragedy to me is right yes it's h..."
Rejecting Traditional Publishing Norms
This segment encourages authors to reject the norms of traditional publishing, emphasizing that rejections from publishers should not deter them from pursuing their writing goals. The speakers share personal anecdotes to illustrate how many successful authors faced numerous rejections before finding their path.
"to create things right broadly defined like whatever your thing is I hope that some part of my work like actually leads people to want to like create stuff right and what I would say is this the..."
The Role of Accountability in Publishing
The speakers discuss the role of accountability in the publishing process, highlighting how traditional publishers provide deadlines and structure that can motivate authors. They explore how aspiring writers can replicate this accountability in their own publishing journeys to ensure they complete their projects.
"and you see if you like it then we all know or we know the work of Morgan housel I think you two know him more personally he's a perfect example psychology of money how many people have how many ..."
The Pain of Rejection Letters
Jim O'Shaughnessy shares his experience of sending out 100 query letters to publishers, receiving 98 rejections, and the humorous nature of some responses. He reflects on the emotional journey of dealing with rejection in the publishing industry, emphasizing that all it takes is one acceptance to succeed.
"books with all of the Publishers um addresses and everything in it I had to do it the old-fashioned way on a typewriter I sent out 100 query letters and like I used to have and unfortunately it go..."
Lessons from a Tough Editor
Jim recounts a challenging experience with his first editor at McGraw-Hill, who imposed strict guidelines on his writing. He humorously describes how he responded with a deliberately flawed letter, showcasing the importance of understanding editorial feedback and the dynamics of author-editor relationships.
"it's like that scene from that Adam Sandler movie where he's like uh like I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul right I think it's like all of us in this room are Dumber Brad..."
The Accountability of Traditional Publishers
Jim discusses the critical role traditional publishers play in providing accountability for authors. He explains how signing a contract and adhering to deadlines can motivate writers to complete their projects, highlighting the importance of structured timelines in the publishing process.
"um in that she was a very school marmarish marmish and like you can't do this you can't do that you must do it this way and so literally I spent I burned an entire day just coming up with the fu..."
The Value of Experienced Editors
Jim emphasizes the value of having experienced editors who can provide constructive feedback on manuscripts. He shares his positive experiences with editors who help refine his work, stressing that self-published authors should seek out professional editing to enhance their writing.
"this project and we have a timeline because we have a sales cycle that will require you to finish it along you know x amount of time I don't think that should be underestimated that's benefit one ..."
The Importance of Copy Editing
Jim highlights the meticulous work of copy editors in traditional publishing, noting their ability to catch errors that authors might overlook. He encourages self-published authors to invest in quality copy editing to ensure their manuscripts are polished and professional.
"to the process which is by the way again a good thing the traditional Publishers do is they bring that rigor third thing they do and then I'll stop because I got you know we want to be we want to ..."
Creating a Unified Publishing Experience
Jim discusses how traditional publishers effectively coordinate the release of different formats of a book, such as Kindle, audio, and print. He explains the significance of this unified approach for maximizing visibility and sales on launch day.
"event out of all three products that again is something that if you're a self-published or hybrid published author you can control but it's the kind of thing it's worth paying attention to it is..."
The Role of Curators in Publishing
Jim and Liberty explore the importance of having curators in the publishing process. They discuss how a strong team can enhance the quality of published works and the value of collaboration in creating successful books.
"to add a tremendous amount very much like your copywriters that you mentioned at the traditional uh Publishers and and the rest and also just the amplification of the book right if if if we as a ..."
Building a Supportive Publishing Team
Jim emphasizes the need for authors to build a supportive team around their projects. He discusses how having invested partners can significantly impact the success of a book, contrasting this with the challenges faced by solo authors.
"as I'm concerned as far as Morgan goes like I love Morgan I try to hire Morgan way back way back when um and uh he of course looked at me Jim you are out of your [ __ ] mind that would never work ..."
The Future of Publishing: Unbundling and Accessibility
Liberty shares his vision for the future of publishing, advocating for an unbundled approach where creators can access various resources and tools. He compares this to modern startups leveraging APIs, emphasizing the need for flexibility and innovation in the publishing landscape.
"value to books being team sports not individual sports totally Liberty one analogy I'm thinking of and if I look out and like the end state vision of all this may be a kind of unbundling in the ..."
Cultural Lag in Digital Adoption
Liberty discusses the cultural lag in adopting digital tools in publishing, reflecting on how quickly technology like AI is being integrated into creative processes. He highlights the potential for increased productivity and creativity through these advancements.
"sure that only 20 000 books are published a year and oh they're the ones who are going to tell us which ones are the good ones but I don't feel that's the right I feel like I'd rather make it mu..."
Leveraging AI for Writing Efficiency
Jim shares his experiences using AI tools to enhance his writing process. He discusses various applications, including transcription services and grammar checkers, illustrating how technology can streamline the writing and editing phases.
"fascinates me now we are adopting faster I mean all you have to do is look at chat uh GPT gpt4 uh the number of people using that the number of people who use are stable diffusion for artwork um..."
The Value of Collaboration in Writing
Jim emphasizes the importance of collaboration in writing, sharing how tools like Google Docs facilitate teamwork. He advocates for using technology to enhance the writing process and improve the overall quality of published works.
"transcriptions and you're not using a service where you're going to pay by the minute right um there are plagiarism checkers online I'm by the way way I still laugh anytime there's like a plagia..."
The Centaur Model: Human and AI Collaboration
The discussion shifts to the Centaur model of AI, where human creativity is augmented by artificial intelligence. The speakers argue that this collaboration can lead to better writing outcomes and more efficient processes. They share personal anecdotes about using AI tools for brainstorming and editing, reinforcing the idea that technology can coexist with traditional writing methods to enhance the quality of literary work.
"I'm like I mean I could go on for at some length I would say that chat gpt3 is a great example of I use it to brainstorm everything now like why not like having another brain by your side and yo..."
The Future of Publishing: Opportunities for All
The speakers reflect on the evolving landscape of publishing, emphasizing that the barriers to entry are diminishing. They discuss how aspiring authors can leverage modern tools and platforms to publish their work independently, thus democratizing the publishing process. The conversation highlights the potential for a surge in diverse voices and stories, as more individuals recognize their power to publish without traditional gatekeepers.
"I said look I'm in the I'm in the business of helping other authors if there are other cyber industry authors that have a lot of notes or endnotes or citations they should totally use this servi..."
Audiobooks: A Growing Market
This segment focuses on the booming audiobook industry, which has become a significant revenue stream for publishers. The speakers discuss the unique advantages of audiobooks, such as low distribution costs and high margins. They explore the untapped potential of foreign markets and the need for innovative approaches to audiobook production, suggesting that the industry is not in decline but rather experiencing a renaissance.
"for both of you for writing books uh like uphill in the snow both ways because I'm a short form writer and I can't imagine working so long on the project without much feedback right I write them..."
Empowering Authors in a Changing Landscape
The conversation emphasizes the empowerment of authors in the current publishing environment. The speakers discuss how authors are becoming more aware of their leverage and the tools available to them, enabling them to negotiate better contracts and explore alternative publishing routes. They express optimism about the future, encouraging more writers to embrace the opportunities presented by technology and changing market dynamics.
"the trend line is moving in the right direction and I would just hope that listeners more people as per your comments Liberty like more people decide they're going to do it they're going to do i..."
The Evolution of Storytelling Formats
In this segment, the speakers explore the evolution of storytelling formats, particularly in relation to audio and digital media. They discuss the need for content creators to adapt their work for different platforms, recognizing that each medium offers unique opportunities for engagement. The conversation highlights the importance of innovation in storytelling, urging creators to embrace new formats while maintaining the essence of their narratives.
"what they're going to do with the kind of tip of the tip of the tip of the whatever of authors I'm also like hopeful that more people who want to do books who don't who have maybe never set foot i..."
The Future of Content Creation
The speakers conclude with reflections on the future of content creation, emphasizing the vast opportunities available in the digital age. They discuss the importance of adapting to new technologies and market demands, encouraging creators to explore unconventional paths. The segment underscores the excitement of this transformative period in publishing, where creativity and innovation can flourish.
"you can you can decide where you're going to be on the S curve right are you going to be down here or are you going to say phooey no I'm you know I'm I'm I got my library card that's all I need he..."
Reinventing Audiobooks: A New Experience
In this segment, the speakers discuss the potential for audiobooks to evolve beyond mere replicas of printed texts. They emphasize the need for innovation in audiobook production, creating unique experiences that engage listeners differently. The conversation draws parallels to how other media forms have transformed over time, highlighting the importance of adapting to new technologies and storytelling methods.
"killer audio books where we we insert the name of the publisher are like recognized for the quality of these books like that they are totally different that we we engage the author in different ..."
The Mind Virus of Conventional Thinking
The discussion shifts to the impact of societal norms and 'mind viruses' that shape our perceptions of creativity and storytelling. The speakers reflect on how traditional views can stifle innovation, using examples from film and media to illustrate the struggle between established practices and new ideas. They argue for a more open-minded approach to creativity that embraces change and experimentation.
"right now there there are all of these incredible Technologies and like we we the sin of trying to understand things too quickly really is very difficult for we humans because we we always want ..."
Disrupting the Oscars: The Raxos Concept
This segment introduces a provocative idea: creating an alternative awards system, dubbed the 'Raxos,' to challenge the traditional prestige of the Oscars. The speakers discuss how such a system could shift the focus from established norms to meritocratic recognition of quality in film, potentially reshaping the entertainment industry and its reward structures.
"that woman uh provided but then I was also we were talking about like what is okay so Hollywood ostensibly supposed to want to make money right the show business business right and and yet they ..."
The Decline of Prestige and the Rise of Authenticity
The conversation explores the diminishing returns of prestige in creative fields, particularly in publishing and film. The speakers argue that authenticity is becoming more valuable than traditional markers of success, such as bestseller lists or awards. They emphasize the importance of focusing on genuine quality and audience engagement rather than chasing accolades.
"because we've sort of realized that like there's no real logic to them that like like that it ends up being sort of faintly small P political in some way and so I think like the pilots are gonna..."
Challenging the Bestseller Lists
In this segment, the speakers critique the New York Times bestseller list, arguing that it does not accurately reflect true sales success. They highlight the discrepancies in how books are selected for the list and suggest that many successful authors may not receive the recognition they deserve. This discussion underscores the need for a reevaluation of how success is measured in the publishing industry.
"critical eye on something where you're chasing like a good example samples like New York Times bestseller list for listeners the New York Times bestseller list does not report best-selling books ..."
The Erosion of Gatekeeper Power
The speakers discuss the changing landscape of media and publishing, where traditional gatekeepers are losing their influence. They reflect on how the internet and social media have democratized access to information and creative expression, allowing new voices to emerge. This shift is seen as a positive development, fostering a more diverse and inclusive creative environment.
"Times best service doesn't accurately reflect best-selling books do you think you're gonna believe that title for much longer probably not yeah and the walls are come this is another big part of..."
The Importance of Quality in Creative Work
This segment emphasizes the need for creators to focus on quality in their work, regardless of the pressures of prestige or marketability. The speakers advocate for a balanced approach that values both depth and audience engagement, encouraging aspiring authors to invest time in honing their craft while also appealing to readers.
"would say though like I went through all of will store's books if you haven't read will I urge you to read Will's books he is a great thinker and and his book on on status is really something you ..."
The False Dichotomy of Serious vs. Entertaining Writing
The conversation addresses the misconception that authors must choose between being serious or entertaining. The speakers argue that successful writing must encompass both elements, drawing on examples from literature and personal experiences. They highlight the importance of engaging readers while delivering meaningful content.
"and I would add like my you know my my glotto kicked the mic to you maybe for the last word but I would say also I you know there's often a false Choice that's presented to people who are in Cre..."
Learning Through Play: The Essence of Creativity
In this segment, the speakers reflect on the role of play in the creative process, emphasizing that creativity thrives in an environment where exploration and enjoyment are prioritized. They draw parallels between childhood learning and adult creativity, advocating for a playful approach to writing and storytelling.
"quaint or archaic because actually the amount of time he spent was really in like intimately tied into the end state of that product right and so it's this very funny thing because at the same t..."
Aligning Prestige with Meritocracy
The discussion concludes with a focus on the need to realign prestige in creative industries with meritocratic principles. The speakers argue for a system that rewards quality and innovation rather than adhering to outdated standards. They express optimism about the future of creative work as new platforms and opportunities emerge.
"um and and about his time as being a professor with Vonnegut in Iowa and and uh Irvine said Vonnegut said something that really stuck with me and it was and it's this idea but and I'm gonna get ..."
Redefining Prestige in Publishing
In this segment, the discussion revolves around the significance of prestige in the publishing industry. The speakers argue that while prestige matters, it should be aligned with meritocracy rather than being controlled by traditional gatekeepers. They envision a future where prestige is distributed more equitably across various niches, allowing for diverse voices and quality content to thrive.
"there it can't go away Prestige matters to people and people who say that Prestige doesn't matter to them are just high enough social status that they can't not care right so the way to deal with ..."
The Evolution of Content Creation
The conversation shifts to the rapid evolution of content creation, highlighting how niche topics can now achieve success through platforms like podcasts and newsletters. The speakers emphasize that the traditional media landscape is changing, allowing creators to find their audience and thrive without conforming to the mainstream. This democratization of content is seen as a positive shift for the industry.
"of the prestige Hill for every Niche right all of a sudden there's a lot more Prestige to go around and there's a lot more great content for people to to discover and to to consume to read to en..."
Encouraging Action and Creativity
The speakers express their desire to inspire listeners to take action on their creative ideas. They discuss the importance of moving from inaction to action, especially in the publishing world, where opportunities are more accessible than ever. The segment emphasizes the collective goal of motivating individuals to pursue their passions and contribute to the evolving landscape of publishing.
"um I don't know this this idea of aligning it with quality and with marital grassy would will give us the best results and that I know that's what I'm going to try to work on yeah well and you a..."
A Kind Reminder from Kurt Vonnegut
In a heartfelt conclusion, the speakers share a quote from Kurt Vonnegut, reminding listeners of the importance of kindness. They reflect on how being kind not only benefits others but also enriches one's own life. This segment encapsulates the essence of the conversation, urging the audience to embrace kindness as a fundamental principle in their interactions.
"for our audience these guys are such Pros I literally emailed them earlier today saying I just had a cancellation you guys want to jump on a podcast completely on rehearsed and here they were so..."