"I was destined to spend the rest of my natural life in prison crimes I didn't commit so journalist documentarian this is prison saw you're going to hear a story there's only a short period after my so..."

"started to grow in me that made me become the person that I am today what is that thing that started to grow in you hope free after more than a decade Behind Bars what is a mistake that you know you'v..."

"take me back I am if you've ever had this podcast before I'm a huge believer that in order to understand a person you have to really understand their context and their earliest context you're from a c..."

"unstable at the same time because there was also a lot of um crime but not crime that was obvious to young guys like me and the girls and you know having a camp in the bottom of a block of flats would..."

"he'd take it out on us so it was a challenging household that wasn't all the time you know my Dad could also be a joy you know you could be the life of the party if there was music playing and he was ..."

"area I think uh sometimes parents wrongly in my opinion but they think that a more harsh approach is the right one but then as it relates to your mother being violent towards your mother that to me se..."

"and how did that manifest itself for you I think I started to get in trouble with the law I started to commit Petty crimes shoplifting breaking into cars burglary um some people might think that burgl..."

"together 17 you you get arrested for that I got I got arrested for burglary when I was 17 and I went to court I got arrested when I was I think 18 maybe 17 18 for assault I I had an altercation with a..."

"autobiography they kidnapped you one day and took you to a park beat you up Etc the the boy who I stabbed in the bum he had a older brother who was quite a known criminal in the area in Peckham in sou..."

"I was now involved in caught up in but I will say this even though that world may sound to people like a really violent and Disturbed world that's not who I was I was caught up in it and I was involve..."

"back to that moment and the person that I was the environment that I grew up in my household my friendship group and the lack of guide and guidance and support that young men like me wanted and I you ..."

"know there's no relatable Role Models there's no one you can model yourself against that's living a other than what you said which is the TV you get to see some people that look like you that come fro..."

"you're 18 at this time 18. at that age 18 were you looking out into your future what are you saying nothing nothing absolutely nothing just the existence that I was in at that very moment at that poin..."

"did you think she had been trying to trap you I think I was at that age quite quite popular among the group of people that I was hanging around with and um had a bit of a reputation um and yeah I thin..."

"actions not his nothing to do with him and probably not even his mother um but really it comes down to the person I was at that time in my life when was the last time you spoke to him I've never spoke..."

"moment how has that been to deal with over the years honestly how's that what's what's that like I think I I that moment where I walked out of the court and made the decision that if they don't want a..."

"he's going through or dealing with but you do know that if he did want to reach out then he's probably clear on the channels of doing doing that I think so and there's a bit of me that also thinks may..."

"night with these men stood above you with guns early hours of the morning I'm I'm in bed and I'm asleep and I heard a commotion for five o'clock in the morning and thought it was actually my best mate..."

"very moment as far as I'm concerned how long did they interrogate you for and when did you find out the crime that they were trying to sort of place you against so you get taken I was taken in this ki..."

"crime and and the serious about a robberies you know I watch a lot of these police interrogation videos and I always you can't help but wonder what you would do in that situation if you are innocent w..."

"today what is that thing that started to grow in you hope and resilience and determination and this ability not to allow someone else to dictate who you are what you're going to become what you should..."

"cars from that property and went to a third scene all in one night all over the 15th 16th of December 1988 they then went to another crime scene broke into the property of um two occupants and tied up..."

"two white men and a black man one victim went so far as to say one of the white men had blue eyes and fair hair because they saw that through the balaclava that they were wearing and they were up clos..."

"confident when we were in the dark that the 12 men and women that would judge us would conclude that this is a racist unjust trial and they would be on our side but they weren't they convicted us and ..."

"the sentence I was sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder I was sentenced to 15 years for the attempted murder I was sentenced to 12 years for the attempted murder aggravated robbery I was sent..."

"take it from me there is a [ __ ] light at the end of the tunnel if only you use your time constructively if you sit on your bed sitting yourself look at the bars and don't do something to change the ..."

"struggled with I almost fought a responsibility leaving there thinking how can what can I do to help that young kid who's handed me this business plan which is amazing because clearly he spent so much..."

"remember who I got that typewriter from or where it came from but I'm truly grateful because not only did it give me the tool to fight my wrongful conviction but it allowed me to understand myself and..."

"freed and I did and I won one of the things I read was was how one day you saw someone had taken their own life in one of the cells um near yours you know the the burden of having to deal with you kno..."

"no um this was an elderly black guy been in prison probably 20 years for murder he was hoping that he would get released and he got a letter um you know people ignored him he's the kind of guy that yo..."

"found out why he attempted to to take his own life but you live with those stories never having an answer and that's prison for you there are people in an horrific things and you know they've done hor..."

"and that was part of the evidence that we presented to the European Court of Human Rights and they said that the prosecution of the police and the Daily Mail need to disclose whether these Witnesses d..."

"so the reward we believe was paid to her to tell lies for the police and to this police Informer for him to tell lies and we still believe that today despite the fact that the prosecution using public..."

"but I never from my conviction to this day had any contact with the ex-girlfriend or that guy who we know told lies I read this other quite quite funny in some ways quite perverse in other ways story ..."

"so um if and we prisoners knew this if you could get your loved one outside girlfriend outside or someone you wanted to have sex with outside write the chaplain a letter to say to the chaplain that yo..."

"private visit where they would have their um their loved one come in their girlfriends or their wives come in but what he had was a hole in the wall and what he did is he used to spy on people who wer..."

"challenge just one of the challenges that you face at the end of being in prison and there are many many more the psychological as well as the the physical but I was privileged to be in one of those r..."

"journalists investigated potential miscarriages of justice and I'd had journalists at this point already visit me in prison and as you rightly say when I made those calls or spoke to them when I shoul..."

"that led to another launch of other media Outlets taking an interest but the application I told you about that I tapped on my type prior to European Court of Human Rights was I think the final straw b..."

"because even the prison guards were now slipping newspapers under my door with the article and banging on my door and saying good luck you know a couple of years earlier they were banging open my door..."

"where I waited for another and this was in the year 2000 where I waited for another few months a few weeks sorry before I got that knock on my cell door from the governor saying can you come down I've..."

"those tears um and that changed me almost instantly and that was probably it was the only time I'd cried in all those 12 years since I'd been wrongly convicted it was also the first time where I proba..."

"that was a release for what happened next in my life did they ever say you were innocent the criminal justice system did they ever by quashing my conviction they accepted that the evidence against me ..."

"a Vindication of our years of being wrongly imprisoned when I've read through all of your research I was wondering about this I was wondering if there was ever a a first of all they were clear that th..."

"won't say the figure but they do give you um you know tens of thousands of pounds okay which is um an amount that they deem to be depending on your circles Nancy if I was you and ended up in prison be..."

"to you know the lockdown period you know people said to me oh God that lockdown period just equivalent to being in prison you do have a handle on the inside of your bedroom door you can open that door..."

"Dyke at the time was making big statements about BBC being hideously white and he was very supportive of the fact that the BBC had had employed me um and that helped after this remarkable career you'v..."

"time to discover what I'm really like as opposed to what they read about me or what they think about me and so you know that's one of the things that that I learned at the beginning when I started to ..."

"I think it's it's simple I mean it came about simply because having been to so many prisons around the globe and have been witnessed so much suffering that is unnecessary you you know regardless of wh..."

"forgiveness is a word actions in my book speak louder than words to say I forgive you doesn't really mean I forgive you it might make you feel more comfortable and it might help you release the burden..."

"any animosity towards them or that I am bitter towards them or that I'm angry are you angry towards them at all I'm not I I I'm I'm not angry towards them in the sense that I would want something bad ..."

"should have been even though as you say the Silver Lining is I've gone on to lead a successful career maybe that's not who I should have been maybe I should have been somebody else but I would never f..."

"that's what you do when you press a button like that you're raising the person you are and I'd never raise who who I am I'm proud of who I am I'm pleased about what I do who I become the people that a..."

"of survival when I go into these prisons when I look a guy in the eye who's killed five ten people and I'm in a room with him on my own or I'm interviewing him and his behavior is characteristics trus..."

"grew up in It's A Better or For Worse he you know he I said to the kid I went you this is a better business plan than I've ever done in my life and I've made hundreds of millions in business and this ..."

"and although she'd gone on to live her life and have relationships I don't think you ever lose your love for the first person you love I don't know because I'd never been in love up until that point y..."

"something aspirations of having a job meant something to her and it was the same when I met her only this time I'd heard of those things I was aware of those things and now it made sense why she was d..."

"can't be easy but the value that that it brings to Enlighten people who it wouldn't ever you know have the you know that they're privileged enough to never end up in prison or to be in those environme..."