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Jack Dorsey: Square, Cryptocurrency, and Artificial Intelligence | Lex Fridman Podcast #91

Jack Dorsey: Square, Cryptocurrency, and Artificial Intelligence | Lex Fridman Podcast #91

32 segments available

Jack Dorsey is the co-founder and CEO of Twitter and the founder and CEO of Square. Support this podcast by signing up with these sponsors: - MasterClass: https://masterclass.com/lex EPISODE LINKS: Jack's Twitter: https://twitter.com/jack Start Small Tracker: https://bit.ly/2KxdiBL PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41 OUTLINE: 0:00 - Introduction 2:48 - Engineering at scale 8:36 - Increasing access to the economy 13:09 - Machine learning at Square 15:18 - Future of the digital economy 17:17 - Cryptocurrency 25:31 - Artificial intelligence 27:49 - Her 29:12 - Exchange with Elon Musk about bots 32:05 - Concerns about artificial intelligence 35:40 - Andrew Yang 40:57 - Eating one meal a day 45:49 - Mortality 47:50 - Meaning of life 48:59 - Simulation CONNECT: - Subscribe to this YouTube channel - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LexFridmanPage - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman

Segments Timeline

1
0:00 - 0:43
0:43 duration124 words

Introduction to Jack Dorsey

In this segment, Lex Fridman introduces Jack Dorsey, co-founder and CEO of Twitter and founder of Square. The conversation focuses on Square and broader philosophical topics, with a nod to the pandemic's impact and Dorsey's significant financial commitment to COVID-19 relief efforts.

"the following is a conversation with Jack Dorsey co-founder and CEO of Twitter and founder and CEO of square given the happenings at the time related to Twitter leadership and the very limited time we..."

2
0:43 - 2:15
1:31 duration257 words

MasterClass and Learning

Lex discusses MasterClass, highlighting its value as an educational platform. Dorsey reflects on the importance of learning from various experts and the significance of choosing the right courses to enhance personal growth and skills.

"square equity which is 28% of his wealth to form an organization that funds kovin 19 relief first as Andrew yang tweeted this is a spectacular commitment and second it is amazing that it operates tran..."

3
2:15 - 3:00
0:44 duration140 words

Exploring Machine Learning and AI

Lex expresses his interest in discussing machine learning and artificial intelligence with Dorsey. He emphasizes the incredible engineering behind large-scale systems and the philosophical questions surrounding technology.

"caracas work and the experience of being launched into space alone is worth the money for me the key is to not be overwhelmed by the abundance of choice pick three courses you want to complete watch e..."

4
3:00 - 4:53
1:53 duration298 words

Engineering at Scale

Dorsey shares insights on the challenges of engineering at scale, discussing the importance of hiring talented individuals and leveraging the open-source community. He emphasizes the need for critical thinking and problem-solving skills in achieving successful engineering outcomes.

"that I love to talk to you about sort of machine learning artificial intelligence both the the narrow kind and the general kind and engineering at scale so there's a lot of incredible engineering goin..."

5
4:53 - 6:01
1:07 duration179 words

The Role of Hardware and Software

Lex and Dorsey delve into whether Square's challenges are fundamentally hardware or software-related. Dorsey highlights the importance of addressing both aspects and the need for a holistic approach to problem-solving in technology.

"deliberate and you get to see because of the the pace you get to see what it takes to really build something meaningful so I learned most most of everything I learned about hacking and programming and..."

6
6:01 - 7:31
1:30 duration221 words

Critical Thinking in Problem Solving

Dorsey discusses the significance of critical thinking and the ability to break down complex problems into manageable parts. He stresses the importance of questioning assumptions and forming credible hypotheses to drive innovation and learning.

"could be achieved is there some insight some lessons some interesting tidbits that you can say about how to make that scale happen is it the hardware fundamentally challenge is it a software challenge..."

7
7:31 - 9:10
1:39 duration256 words

Increasing Access to the Economy

Dorsey articulates Square's mission to increase access to the economy, particularly for small businesses and entrepreneurs. He shares insights on the barriers faced by these businesses and how Square aims to lower those barriers through innovative solutions.

"that's what contributes to learning and the only way we can evolve any of these things is learning what is currently doing and and how to take it to the next the next step and questioning assumptions ..."

8
9:10 - 10:43
1:32 duration233 words

Rethinking Financial Trust

Dorsey explains how Square's approach contrasts with traditional financial institutions by fostering a mindset of trust rather than distrust. He discusses the importance of verifying legitimacy while enabling more people to access financial systems.

"I think represents what we're trying to do at square it's it is that word access one of the things we found is that we weren't expecting this at all when we started we thought were just building a a p..."

9
10:43 - 12:03
1:20 duration186 words

Machine Learning's Role in Verification

Dorsey elaborates on the role of machine learning in Square's verification processes. He discusses how data science evolved into machine learning and the importance of building trust with financial partners through responsible practices.

"authenticity intent predictor of future behavior so that's the first thing we actually looked at and that's where the you know we built the hardware but the software really came in terms of risk model..."

10
12:03 - 13:05
1:02 duration154 words

Building Trust with Financial Partners

Dorsey shares how Square demonstrated its capabilities to financial partners by gradually increasing the number of users and showcasing successful outcomes. This approach built trust and accountability within the company.

"the space only about thirty to forty percent of the people who apply to accept credit cards would actually get through the system we took that number than 99% and that's because we reframe the problem..."

11
13:05 - 14:00
0:54 duration160 words

Future of Access and IoT

As the conversation progresses, Dorsey hints at the future of increasing access through advancements in technology, particularly with the Internet of Things (IoT) and intelligent devices, setting the stage for further discussion.

"people to get there and to enable more people to access system what uh what role does machine learning play into that in that context of you said first of all that's a beautiful shift anytime you shif..."

12
14:50 - 16:43
1:53 duration288 words

The Future of Currency and Access

In this segment, Dorsey shares his vision for the future of Square and the digital economy, emphasizing the need for a native currency for the Internet. He argues that Bitcoin could simplify global transactions and regulatory challenges, enabling broader access to economic participation.

"again it's it's kind of you know getting something tangible out there I want to show what we can do rather than talk about it and that put a lot of pressure on us to do the right things and it also cr..."

13
16:43 - 18:00
1:17 duration210 words

The Beauty of Bitcoin

Dorsey expresses his admiration for Bitcoin, describing it as a revolutionary technology with organic principles. He highlights the significance of the Bitcoin white paper and its potential to empower individuals globally, while acknowledging the unpredictable future of digital currencies.

"understanding of regulation and onboarding and-and-and what that means so I think you know the the internet continuing to be accessible to people is number one and then I think currency is is number t..."

14
18:00 - 19:09
1:09 duration197 words

Decentralization and Societal Impact

Dorsey discusses the broader implications of digital currency beyond financial transactions, emphasizing its potential to reshape societal structures. He shares insights from his experiences in Ethiopia, illustrating how payment systems can hinder entrepreneurial growth and innovation.

"thing about it is there's no one person setting the direction and there's no one person on the other side that can stop it so we have something that is pretty organic in nature and very principled in ..."

15
19:09 - 20:36
1:26 duration237 words

The Philosophical Statement of Satoshi

In this thought-provoking segment, Dorsey reflects on the philosophical implications of Bitcoin's anonymous launch. He discusses the significance of Satoshi Nakamoto's pseudonym and the balance between identity and anonymity in the cryptocurrency space.

"which is also really cool so you ask the question around 10 years in 20 years I mean I think the amazing thing is no one knows and it can emerge and every person that comes into the ecosystem whether ..."

16
20:36 - 21:11
0:35 duration100 words

Redefining Money and Society

Dorsey explores the potential for digital currency to redefine money and its impact on society. He emphasizes that the ramifications extend beyond finance, suggesting that a global currency could foster innovation and address systemic issues in various sectors.

"possible sorry to interrupt do you think it's possible that this kind of digital currency would redefine the nature of money so become the main currency of the world as opposed to being tied to fiat c..."

17
21:11 - 22:14
1:02 duration148 words

Challenges in Payment Systems

Dorsey shares a compelling story about an entrepreneur in Ethiopia facing challenges with payment systems. He highlights how the difficulties in facilitating payments can stifle business growth and innovation, underscoring the need for more efficient solutions.

"much more I was meeting with an entrepreneur in Ethiopia and payments is probably the number one problem to solve across a continent both in terms of moving money across borders between nations on the..."

18
22:14 - 23:14
1:00 duration146 words

The Power of Anonymity in Innovation

In this segment, Dorsey discusses the implications of anonymity in the context of Bitcoin's launch. He reflects on how the choice of a pseudonym fosters a sense of community and empathy, while also allowing for a focus on the technology itself rather than individual identities.

"so I think as we get a more durable resilient and global standard we see a lot more innovation everywhere and I think there's no better case study for this than the various countries with and within A..."

19
23:14 - 24:55
1:41 duration263 words

AI and the Turing Test

Dorsey delves into the challenges of artificial intelligence, particularly in passing the Turing Test. He emphasizes the importance of explainability in AI systems and the risks associated with trusting black box algorithms in critical decision-making processes.

"Satoshi Nakamoto just just checking thank you I wear what I tell you yes sure um but maybe you slip a pseudonym is constructed identity anonymity is just kind of as you know ran random like drop somet..."

20
24:55 - 26:07
1:11 duration181 words

The Future of AI Relationships

In a fascinating discussion, Dorsey contemplates the possibility of forming deep connections with AI, referencing the film 'Her.' He acknowledges that while some individuals may develop emotional attachments to AI, the broader implications of such relationships remain complex.

"hard to do that in a corporation legally that's the issue if I were to do more open-source things then absolutely like I don't don't need my particular identity my real identity associated with it but..."

21
25:37 - 26:56
1:19 duration190 words

The Turing Test and AI's Language Challenge

Jack Dorsey discusses the Turing Test, emphasizing the complexities of natural language processing in artificial intelligence. He highlights the challenge of achieving general intelligence that can explain decisions and the risks of relying on black-box AI systems that lack transparency in their decision-making processes.

"Turing test to me natural language is one of the most interesting spaces of problems that are tackled by artificial intelligence it's the canonical problem of what it means to be intelligent he formul..."

22
26:56 - 28:24
1:27 duration260 words

Can AI Foster Deep Connections?

In a thought-provoking exchange, Dorsey reflects on the potential for artificial intelligence to create deep emotional connections, akin to the relationship depicted in the film 'Her.' He explores the subjective nature of meaning and how humans might find significance in their interactions with AI.

"I think that's one of our biggest risk and artificial intelligence going forward is we are building a lot of black boxes that can't necessarily explain why they made a decision or what criteria they u..."

23
28:24 - 30:01
1:36 duration265 words

The Future of Human-AI Relationships

Dorsey contemplates the future of human relationships with AI, questioning the necessity of distinguishing between humans and bots. He discusses the implications of AI's rapid advancement and the challenges of maintaining self-awareness in a world increasingly influenced by algorithms.

"you mentioned explained it there's lots of function of the artificial intelligence and more a function of the individual and how they find meaning and where they find meaning do you think we humans ca..."

24
30:01 - 32:03
2:01 duration302 words

The Race Between Creation and Detection

Dorsey addresses the evolving landscape of AI technology, noting that the pace of AI creation often outstrips the development of detection technologies. He emphasizes the importance of staying ahead in identifying potential risks associated with AI, particularly in financial systems.

"the Turing test well what's interesting is I think the technology to create is moving much faster than the technology to detect you think so so if you look at like adversarial machine learning there's..."

25
32:03 - 34:14
2:11 duration330 words

Meditation and Self-Awareness in the Age of AI

Dorsey references Yuval Noah Harari's insights on self-awareness in the context of AI. He discusses the importance of meditation as a tool for individuals to regain control over their decision-making processes, amidst the growing influence of algorithms on personal choices.

"models or the or the self learning models you have other worries like some people like Elon and others have worries of existential threats of artificial intelligence of artificial general intelligence..."

26
34:14 - 39:36
5:22 duration794 words

Job Displacement and Universal Basic Income

Dorsey shares his thoughts on the impact of automation on jobs, particularly in the context of Andrew Yang's advocacy for universal basic income. He highlights the need for a safety net as society transitions to a more automated economy, emphasizing the importance of preparing workers for new opportunities.

"yes I am offloading this decision to this algorithm that I don't fully understand and can't tell me why it's doing the things that's doing because it's so complex that's not to say that the algorithm ..."

27
39:36 - 41:29
1:52 duration288 words

The Value of Fasting and Self-Discipline

In a lighter moment, Dorsey discusses his experience with intermittent fasting, reflecting on how it enhances appreciation for food and self-discipline. He humorously connects his cultural background to the practice, showcasing a personal side amidst the broader discussion on technology and society.

"our business or what not so that's where I think regulation could play a strong and positive part first looking at the primitives of AI and the tools we use to build these services that will ultimatel..."

28
40:57 - 42:02
1:04 duration179 words

Fasting and Mental Clarity

In this segment, Dorsey shares his personal experience with intermittent fasting, explaining how it enhances his mental clarity and focus. He discusses the societal norms around eating and how breaking these norms has allowed him to explore his own health and productivity in a unique way.

"think you and I eat some more diets and at least I was the first time I've heard this yeah so I was doing it first time anyone has said that to me yeah but it's becoming more and more cool and but I w..."

29
42:02 - 43:19
1:17 duration234 words

Embracing Discomfort for Growth

Dorsey elaborates on the importance of embracing discomfort and challenges in life. He recounts his journey of overcoming shyness through public speaking and how facing uncomfortable situations has led to personal growth and confidence, paralleling this with his approach to fasting.

"distractions I think I just took it for granted for too long which aspect just a social structure of we eat three and there's snacks in between and I just never really asked the question why oh by the..."

30
43:19 - 44:49
1:29 duration235 words

Contemplating Mortality

Jack Dorsey reflects on his thoughts about mortality and how it influences his daily life. He views death as a transformative experience and a reminder to prioritize what truly matters, using it as a tool to enhance his appreciation for life and the connections he has with others.

"I was vegan for two years and just went all over the place just because I you know a health is the most precious thing we have and none of us really understand it so being able asked the question thro..."

31
44:49 - 46:43
1:53 duration280 words

Finding Meaning in Life

In this segment, Dorsey discusses what gives his life meaning, emphasizing the significance of connections with others and the impact of his work. He articulates a sense of belonging to something greater than himself, which drives his purpose and happiness.

"about whatever that topic is not being able to use the note card while speaking and speaking for five minutes about that topic so but it just it puts so much it gave me so much perspective around the ..."

32
46:43 - 50:07
3:24 duration528 words

Are We Living in a Simulation?

Dorsey engages in a thought-provoking discussion about the possibility of living in a simulation. He reflects on the interconnectedness of humanity and the challenges we face in recognizing our shared existence, suggesting that understanding this connectivity is crucial for our collective future.

"just use as a reminder like I have an hour is this really what I'm going to spend the hour doing like I only have so many more sunsets and sunrises to watch like I'm not going to get up for it I'm not..."