"Jim O'Shaughnessy: It's great to have you. Wow. Lot going on in your life. New child, new book, what's going on? Ed Latimore: Yes, the past three months. Well really more like the past five. We'll spl..."

"Jim O'Shaughnessy: Well I can tell you, the three days that I remember like they were yesterday was the birth of my three children. And then the next days that I remember almost as vividly, is the bir..."

"I happened to have a connection to Mark and I had reached out to him and asked him some questions. And I said, "[inaudible] ask questions of this guy. He was one of the authors I reached out to. I sho..."

"It's not funny because there is nothing particular to the coffee about that that's interesting. There's no play on words. But, coffee so Black the cops turn off their body cams when they drink it, tha..."

"Jim O'Shaughnessy: Right. And I believe deeply that you can often change more minds if you're entertaining and funny a little bit. Even about things like there's a whole slew of Irish jokes and the hi..."

"Ed Latimore: Oh, for sure. I think about this a lot because Anna is... It depends on the day, how I'm feeling. Some days she's White, some days she's Portuguese, it depends on which one. But to the av..."

"definitely been for the better. Let's talk a bit about addiction, because one of the things that you point out, that I don't think a lot of people think about, is you point out that, hey, you could be..."

"Because one thing I absolutely believe, whether it's a good choice or bad choice, and most of the time it's a bad choice, is that every addiction starts from a place of benign meaning. Or put it like ..."

"Everything you would imagine would happened if somebody is hooked on narcotics. And then they did something novel to test this idea. Instead of having the rats isolated, which is how they were doing i..."

"Might seem like... I think back to when me and my friends all started drinking when we were 18. Perhaps we're all doing it to have fun, but underneath that, why do some guys not go crazy? Other guys a..."

"Jim O'Shaughnessy: The insight into isolation, I researched this stuff a lot and that just keeps popping up as isolation for your average human being, man or woman, is really a bad thing. Ed Latimore:..."

"a lot of bad things. How did you go about it? Because I mentioned mentors earlier. You found mentors, you found people to talk to and what was the spark and how'd you decide, "Okay, here's what I need..."

"I finally had some goals. So five or six years out, meeting someone that I really cared about and not wanting to hurt her, to have a high sense of conscientiousness. That made a big difference. But as..."

"And the outsider who doesn't know any different, it's the same as being liked. It's not until it's time to do anything where there's real investment like bringing around the family or bestowing profes..."

"else. And these were real connections. You're around people all the time. I mean it might not be the most comfortable scenario, but are you're developing those relationships. Those relationships, and ..."

"And I would say the relationships you form, that really helps and that helped me. On top of everything else, I just look and there's multiple reasons. That's why, I mean just can't imagine going back...."

"And people say, "Oh, you're so nice." And I say, "Oh no, I'm not nice at all. I do try to be kind." And they're very, very different things. So I think having somebody like you articulate these differ..."

"How did you get into stoicism? Ed Latimore: Man, stoicism found me. I didn't find it. My mom was a real mother fucker when it comes to emotional manipulation, and I figured out very young that the onl..."

"go, "Nevermind, I'll just do it myself. I don't need you guys help anyway." And I'm like, okay. So I learned very early that I could let myself be drawn into this type of ridiculousness or I could be ..."

"But when you talk to people, all people who are even a little bit of sensitive, are a little bit aware, recognize that the way you approach a conversation is going to affect how the person feels about..."

"Ed Latimore: Yeah. And I figured that out oh so early. Jim O'Shaughnessy: And how did you do that? How did you figure that out? Ed Latimore: As I write this book, I'm learning a lot about adverse chil..."

"That was her metric of success. I didn't end up in jail and Jasmine didn't end up with any kids out of wedlock. And I'm just like, "I know you tried your best, but there's some things that your best i..."

"me and seeing how things turned out for me in my life and also dealing with my mom in her last days and the afterwards, is she able to honestly go, "Okay, you might not have been so crazy." And I know..."

"She just now, at 35, got the okay from the nursing board that it would be okay for her to nursing school. Because you can attend any nursing school. But she works at a hospital, where she was going to..."

"Jim O'Shaughnessy: Another thing you talk a lot about is that progress often requires pain. And do you think progress is possible without pain? Ed Latimore: I think pain is a feeling. And that feeling..."

"But that pain, whether it be physical, in the sense of training, or emotional, in the sense of working on your development. And really, that's the hard stuff, your relationships, putting yourself out ..."

"When you just were, "You know what? Fuck this. I just don't want to do this." How did you psych yourself up? Or did you not? Ed Latimore: Well, everything I do, I'm very good, I think, better than the..."

"So let me make sure I have something else." Because, that negative forecasting? I call it the fighter's graveyard, where you get a bunch of guys, that they put all their effort into their career, and ..."

"When I was going through my publishing contract, I made a post on Facebook, where I was like, "Man, this is like ..." I compared it to a boxing contract. I was like, "They're paying me a lot more mone..."

"can see it, and it's getting it out of your head, and that whole predating thing. One of the things that you also say, which I also totally agree with is, you got to be authentic, you've got to be dis..."

"deal?" Ed Latimore: For starters, I never try and make that assessment in an area where I am inexperienced. It won't work. I couldn't do it. Okay, but when I'm reading about someone, or engaging or in..."

"You're going to slip up, either in usage, lexicon. Your terms are being a little dated, where I'm like, "How old are you?" You start hearing these things and you go, "Okay, that's off." In terms of ex..."

"That kind of deal. Interestingly enough, man boxing is supposed to be this battalion, our last bastion of real honest ... Because there's the independent system, and then there's still a heavy word of..."

"I'm like, "Wow, man," but that's how it is. So you get used to that, and you start figuring out who is full of it. There's a great scene in The Wire where, I don't know if you're familiar with the sho..."

"You want a good metric? That's probably the single best one. Also, James Altucher has this great test, where he says, "There's the good reason, and the real reason." When you get used to that, filteri..."

"Generally, the difference between the two is, the real reason is the reason, that it sounds less scientific. Because people like to lean on facts. It's a lot easier to say, "Oh, they're late, and they..."

"And that's harsh. But sometimes, that's the only way to do it. Otherwise, because if you keep giving the a good reason, what you do is, you keep introducing areas for a person to rebut you. Jim O'Shau..."

"How do you feel about being cast as the father figure? Ed Latimore: Look, man, here's how I think about this. Power of [inaudible]. Someone's going to take my place and if you don't... And look, it's ..."

"But this is a big problem in the male role model space right now, there's a lot of guys, first of all, there's a lot of the male role models or the role models that men have for lots of reasons, let's..."

"and emulate. And then whether that be through proximity or through what you have you. Yeah, you'll be followed. So for me that's fine. That's fine because I think you could do a lot worse than trying ..."

"Jim O'Shaughnessy: Yeah, that's a good way to think about it. So what's next? You've got the book, you've got a son, you're doing all this stuff. Do you have some more books planned? A bigger- Ed Lati..."

"I think they got these guys with these big old lists that they get signed. Because I studied where I can and learned what worked. And freaking James Clear had 450,000 people on his list when he signed..."

"And I understand the media marketing machine. You want to have a good cool story. The guy who's 40, well, I won't be 40, but I'll be very close to it, who's winning fights and wrote this book. Oh, the..."

"These are the goals, these are my goals. This is how I'm... I'm an artist man. I'm not a crazy business dude. And I want to sit and take the Spanish B2 level exam. I've been preparing for that because..."

"I think everyone should learn a language, but just it's challenging and it's one of those skills that you can't BS it. I hate the idea of copywriting and email marketing. Those are skills. I'm like, "..."

"Nothing crazy. But in terms of the book, one at a time. In fact we were talking before they sign you, you have a final meeting. They're like, "All right, we like the proposal. We like you. Let's just ..."

"Ed Latimore: Yeah, I think it just makes you more interesting in my opinion. One of the things I learned in my phase of trying to be liked rather than be respected is that people really like interesti..."

"the skillset and the organization or anybody that's affiliated, and back to that example, that's what Brazilian jujitsu has strived to do is make sure that it doesn't turn into a [inaudible] dojo. So ..."

"debate and you have to do it with facts, but be polite. So you don't insult but if your idea doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny, you have to discard it and take the better approach. I think if peopl..."

"I can't remember what it's called in biology, but it's where you get rid of the middle curve and only the extremes are represented. And on the one end you have people who only are brave who are all ju..."