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The Man Who Coached Michael Jordan AND Kobe Bryant To WIN! Tim Grover

The Man Who Coached Michael Jordan AND Kobe Bryant To WIN! Tim Grover

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This episode is part of our USA series, over the coming weeks you will get to see some incredible conversations with guests the likes of which we’ve never seen before. Bringing more value, more incredible stories, and more world-beating expertise. Tim Grover is the performance expert who helped to raise the game of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant to the legendary status everyone knows them for. Tim’s new book, Winning, opens the lid on what it was like to work with two of the greatest basketball players of all time. Neither Michael, Kobe, or Tim were interested in being anything except No. 1, and in this episode we're going to uncover how you can achieve that mindset too. 00:00 Intro 01:27 Confronting and learning from your dark side 17:44 How did you go from a normal job to training Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant? 34:38 Attention to detail and what made you succeed 43:37 What do successful people end up missing? 48:03 Happiness or winning at all costs, what’s the goal? 51:44 What sacrifices did you make during your career? 01:02:18 Consistency and performing at the highest level 01:04:28 Getting the best out of teams 01:08:26 Keeping the right people around you 01:10:58 Showing up is not winning 01:15:55 The impact of your work on your family 01:21:44 Our last guest’s question Listen on: Apple podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-diary-of-a-ceo-by-steven-bartlett/id1291423644 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7iQXmUT7XGuZSzAMjoNWlX Tim: https://twitter.com/attackathletics?lang=en https://www.instagram.com/timgrover Tim's book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Winning-Unforgiving-Greatness-Tim-Grover/dp/1398501905/ FOLLOW ► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/steven/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/SteveBartlettSC Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-bartlett-56986834/ Sponsors: Huel - https://my.huel.com/Steven Myenergi - https://bit.ly/3oeWGnl Location courtesy of The Nightfall Group: www.nightfallgroup.com

Segments Timeline

1
0:00 - 1:09
1:09 duration213 words

The Price of Winning

Tim Grover discusses the mental health implications of winning, emphasizing that while winning doesn't make you heartless, it teaches you to use your heart less. He warns that the cost of winning is high, but the price of regret is even higher, setting the stage for a deeper exploration of the mindset required for greatness.

"could you do me a quick favor if you're listening to this please hit the follow or subscribe button it helps more than you know and we invite subscribers in every month to watch the show in person kob..."

2
1:27 - 6:44
5:16 duration657 words

Confronting Your Dark Side

Tim Grover shares a personal story about his father's challenging job disposing of cadavers, illustrating the concept of the 'dark side.' He explains how this experience shaped his understanding of sacrifice and resilience, emphasizing that confronting one's darkness can lead to new beginnings and personal growth.

"tim i read in your book winning the unforgiving race to greatness chapter 12. and i don't usually start with people's books i wanna i wanna you usually start somewhere else but in chapter 12 you talk ..."

3
6:44 - 10:30
3:46 duration530 words

Embracing the Darkness

Grover elaborates on the necessity of visiting one's dark side to achieve personal growth. He argues that many people fear their darkness, but confronting it can lead to a better understanding of oneself and one's purpose. He emphasizes that a new day starts in the dark, and overcoming fear is essential for success.

"but so many people are afraid to go to that place and i tell them you have to visit that place because if that place comes visits you it will never leave if you go visit the darkness that you've been ..."

4
10:30 - 18:14
7:44 duration1103 words

The Dual Nature of Pain

Tim Grover discusses how trauma can lead to either greatness or despair. He reflects on how individuals from similar challenging backgrounds can respond differently to adversity, with some using their pain as a driving force for success while others allow it to hinder their potential. This segment highlights the importance of resilience and the choices we make in response to our struggles.

"life that you're meant to live how did that monster manifest itself in your behavior outside of you said about you struggle to be compassionate with other people you struggle to have empathy for their..."

5
18:14 - 19:40
1:26 duration208 words

From Trauma to Triumph

Tim Grover recounts his journey from a traumatic childhood to becoming a renowned sports enhancement specialist. He explains how his early experiences fueled his desire to help others avoid the pitfalls he faced, leading him to study the human body and psychology deeply.

"so tell me about how you went from that traumatic early upbringing that created that dark side in you to being a sports enhancement specialist that's how you that's how you prefer yes that was my offi..."

6
19:40 - 21:02
1:21 duration213 words

Understanding the Mental Game

Grover elaborates on the significance of mental resilience in sports training. He discusses how he combines physical training with psychological support, emphasizing the importance of overcoming mental scars to perform at the highest level.

"physical standpoint i understood what was going on in their head if they hurt their ankle hip back all that stuff i knew so not only was i able to train them from a physical standpoint i was able to t..."

7
21:02 - 22:24
1:22 duration196 words

Dream Big, Scare Yourself

In this motivational segment, Grover encourages listeners to set ambitious goals that challenge them. He stresses that true success requires thinking beyond conventional limits and embracing the fear that comes with pursuing extraordinary dreams.

"and i asked them what is tim good at what was tim good at for you what would they say to me elevating elevating them to another level holistically holistically just being able because when somebody co..."

8
22:24 - 23:12
0:48 duration87 words

The Hidden Pressures of Success

Tim Grover discusses the often-overlooked mental health challenges faced by successful individuals. He explains how the pressures of maintaining success can impact mental well-being, contrasting the experiences of those who win consistently with those who do not.

"and stay at number one you have no you have no idea you have an idea because you've been there everybody wants to sit in your seat until they have to sit in your seat very few people understand what w..."

9
23:12 - 24:07
0:55 duration80 words

The Weight of Winning

Grover highlights the unique pressures that come with winning at the highest levels. He shares insights on how success can create a different set of mental health challenges, emphasizing that the journey to the top is often fraught with unseen difficulties.

"to perform at the highest level to have their businesses win over and over again when you reach a million followers on your social media it's a [Music] different level of pressure than an individual w..."

10
24:07 - 25:14
1:06 duration181 words

From College Graduate to Elite Trainer

In this segment, Grover shares his transition from a college graduate working minimum wage to becoming a sought-after trainer for elite athletes. He recounts his early experiences and the pivotal moments that shaped his career path.

"mental health that success brings that a lot of people just don't understand michael i uh i watched the last dance documentary i saw you in there as well um really i've got to be honest i didn't reall..."

11
25:14 - 26:56
1:42 duration294 words

Finding My Path in Kinesiology

Tim Grover reflects on his early interest in kinesiology and how it set the foundation for his career. He discusses the importance of understanding human movement and the purpose behind athletic training, which ultimately led him to work with top athletes.

"well when i started to go to college i didn't know what i wanted to do and you know again being of indian descent and having both parents and in the medical in the medical field you get to choose two ..."

12
26:56 - 29:01
2:04 duration379 words

The Journey to Becoming a Trainer

Grover narrates his journey from working in a health club to becoming a top trainer. He shares how he overcame initial obstacles and leveraged his education to excel in the fitness industry, ultimately leading to his work with Michael Jordan.

"we had an individual that would come in and work our team out i was just like this doesn't just this doesn't feel right so i really took study to this i really wanted to understand this later on i gra..."

13
29:01 - 31:03
2:02 duration294 words

The Bold Move: Writing to Michael Jordan

In a pivotal moment of his career, Grover describes how he took the initiative to write letters to NBA players, including Michael Jordan. He explains the significance of this bold move and how it opened doors to his future as a trainer for elite athletes.

"period of time i became the highest grossing trainer they had in the in there but what was great about it is and i talked about this in the book school taught me what to think all the education all th..."

14
30:38 - 32:01
1:22 duration253 words

The Bold Move: Writing to Michael Jordan

Tim Grover shares the story of how he took the initiative to write letters to NBA players, including Michael Jordan, despite having no prior experience with professional athletes. This bold move led to an unexpected opportunity, showcasing the importance of taking risks and seizing chances in pursuit of greatness.

"school there's got to be more and there was a small article in the local newspaper that said michael jordan was tired of taking the physical abuse from the detroit pistons and wanted to get stronger l..."

15
32:01 - 33:18
1:17 duration261 words

The Power of Initiative

Grover emphasizes that most people wouldn't have the courage to send those letters, but he did. He reflects on the significance of taking action and how it can lead to transformative opportunities, encouraging listeners to roll the dice in their own lives to achieve their dreams.

"i have to pause you there just to highlight the fact that most people would not send those letters i'm not most there's nothing about me that qualifies as most there's nothing that qualifies me me as ..."

16
33:18 - 34:43
1:25 duration195 words

Chasing Marginal Gains

Tim discusses the concept of marginal gains, highlighting how elite athletes like Michael Phelps and Kobe Bryant focus on tiny improvements to achieve greatness. He explains that success is often found in the details and the relentless pursuit of being just a little bit better every day.

"they can get a michael jordan the best of the best they're always looking for a competitive edge they're always looking for that that .001 percent thing that can make them better i had a conversation ..."

17
34:43 - 36:01
1:18 duration296 words

Obsessed with Details

Grover illustrates how obsession with small details sets top performers apart. He shares anecdotes about Kobe Bryant's meticulous preparation and focus on the minutiae that others overlook, reinforcing the idea that success is built on a foundation of attention to detail.

"and i i heard you talk about this with with kobe in the book and your other athletes um that that trying to find that edge and kobe was one of those people that in the book that you talk about really ..."

18
36:01 - 37:03
1:02 duration128 words

Control the Uncontrollable

In this segment, Grover explains how successful individuals strive to control every aspect of their performance, even the uncontrollable elements. He discusses the importance of preparation and awareness in managing potential challenges, drawing on his experiences with Kobe Bryant.

"things that people everyone thinks they won't notice you hear this all the time don't sweat the small stuff the one percenters the 0.01 they sweat every single detail because the one thing they let sl..."

19
37:03 - 38:40
1:37 duration228 words

Interest vs. Obsession

Tim Grover contrasts being interested in success with being obsessed. He emphasizes that true champions, like Kobe Bryant, are not just interested in winning; they are obsessed with every detail that contributes to their success, highlighting the difference between a hobbyist and a true competitor.

"controlling it there's a big thing that we used to use with kobe all the time is i used to ask individuals if you're interested in taking your business or your basketball game your football skills you..."

20
38:40 - 40:01
1:20 duration225 words

The Importance of Focus

Grover discusses how maximizing focus can lead to greater success. He shares insights on how Kobe Bryant structured his life to eliminate distractions, allowing him to concentrate fully on his craft and achieve extraordinary results.

"what were those small details for him everyone talks about maximizing their time kobe and i were interested in maximizing his focus when you maximize your focus it gave us more it gave us more time th..."

21
40:01 - 41:44
1:42 duration323 words

Details Matter in Every Aspect

In this segment, Grover reflects on the significance of details in various areas of life, from sports to personal relationships. He stresses that paying attention to the small things can lead to significant advantages and success, reinforcing the idea that excellence is found in the details.

"if we went into that area we know stay away from that area or if we know we can't dribble on that that that particular spot and there was one time there was a game where kobe was before the game he wa..."

22
41:44 - 44:01
2:17 duration440 words

The Balance of Obsession and Life

Tim Grover explores the concept of balance in the lives of high achievers like Kobe Bryant. He discusses how obsession can lead to an unbalanced life and the importance of surrounding oneself with supportive individuals who understand that drive, ultimately leading to a fulfilling legacy.

"the separation is in the details it's in the details the separation and the clothes you wear is in the details the sh the shoes the car that you drive the the house your your education it doesn't matt..."

23
44:15 - 45:53
1:37 duration250 words

The Balance of Obsession

Tim Grover discusses the importance of balance in the lives of high achievers. He reflects on how the most driven individuals often sacrifice balance for their obsessions, particularly in the context of Kobe Bryant's career. Grover emphasizes that achieving greatness often requires periods of imbalance, but it's crucial to surround oneself with supportive people who understand this drive.

"is there something in hindsight having lived a life where i achieve those things where i reach the top in you know my industry in business or in podcasting wherever it might be or as an investor that ..."

24
45:53 - 47:10
1:17 duration186 words

Creating Your Own Happiness

In this segment, Grover explores the concept of happiness versus winning at all costs. He argues that happiness must be created rather than found, and discusses the dangers of using external validation as a measure of success. Grover shares insights on how obsession can lead to burnout and the importance of defining personal happiness on one's own terms.

"weighing towards one side more than the other in early part of kobe's kobe's career it was about it was about basketball and winning about basketball and winning and towards the end of it towards the ..."

25
47:10 - 48:34
1:24 duration203 words

The Dark Side of Obsession

Tim Grover reflects on the darker aspects of obsession, particularly in high-performing individuals like Kobe Bryant. He warns that the relentless pursuit of success can lead to unhappiness and burnout. Grover emphasizes the need for self-awareness and understanding the motivations behind one's drive, questioning whether the pursuit of fame and success is truly fulfilling.

"continue to add stuff get closer to balance by deleting the unessentials delete the unessentials the most successful people and the success when i talk about success i'm not just talking about from a ..."

26
48:34 - 50:00
1:25 duration269 words

Mamba Mentality: A Double-Edged Sword

Grover discusses Kobe Bryant's 'Mamba Mentality' and its implications for success. He explains that while this mentality can drive individuals to greatness, it can also lead to destructive behaviors if not managed properly. Grover shares anecdotes about how this intense focus can sometimes overshadow personal relationships and well-being.

"do sometimes they go too far should happiness be the goal i can't make that decision for those individuals my job if happening happiness could be winning for them all right but you don't find happines..."

27
50:00 - 51:42
1:42 duration221 words

Defining Your Own Success

In this segment, Grover emphasizes the importance of defining success on one's own terms. He contrasts traditional definitions of success, such as job security and financial stability, with a more personal understanding of happiness and fulfillment. Grover encourages listeners to reflect on whether their pursuit of success aligns with their true desires.

"lifestyle that's the first thing i tell individuals and once i tell them about the lifestyle i've seen mama mentality destroy more careers than i've seen it help too intense too hot people want the fl..."

28
51:42 - 53:19
1:37 duration323 words

The Role of Insecurity in Motivation

Tim Grover delves into the role of insecurity as a powerful motivator for high achievers. He discusses how past experiences, such as bullying, can drive individuals to seek validation through success. Grover highlights the importance of recognizing whether one's motivations stem from genuine desire or from a need to fill emotional voids.

"become happy one of the things i think i've struggled with in my life is knowing if something is something i want or if it's scratching an insecurity i have so insecurity as you know is one of the gre..."

29
53:19 - 54:57
1:38 duration236 words

Control vs. Being Controlled

Grover reflects on the importance of maintaining control over one's life and career, using Michael Jordan as an example. He discusses how successful individuals must navigate external pressures while staying true to their own values and goals. Grover emphasizes that true success comes from self-awareness and the ability to manage one's own narrative.

"of of my brand and then when what happens is when you let external things and you start playing for the for the wrong reason a lot of individuals play always and this is the thing in with in sports no..."

30
54:57 - 56:01
1:03 duration179 words

The Importance of Detail in Training

In this segment, Grover shares insights into his meticulous training methods with Michael Jordan. He explains how attention to detail in analyzing performance metrics allowed him to tailor training regimens effectively. Grover underscores the significance of preparation and data-driven approaches in achieving peak performance.

"multiple things in your life and if it gets to the point where it is burning it is burning you out that means it's time for you for that you are no longer obsessed with that thing anymore and it's tim..."

31
56:01 - 57:45
1:44 duration244 words

Building Trust Through Commitment

Tim Grover discusses the trust built between him and Michael Jordan through shared commitment to excellence. He shares a memorable compliment from Jordan, highlighting the depth of their professional relationship. Grover emphasizes that true partnership in high-performance environments requires mutual understanding and dedication.

"he meant one of the reasons i get along so well with all my clients professionally business-wise socially or everybody because they know i'm just as messed up as they are and i don't judge them my my ..."

32
57:45 - 1:00:03
2:18 duration453 words

Transitioning from Jordan to Bryant

Grover reflects on the transition from working with Michael Jordan to Kobe Bryant. He shares insights into how Jordan introduced him to Bryant and the expectations that came with training another elite athlete. Grover discusses the dynamics of working with high-profile clients and the importance of adapting to their unique needs.

"is well how can i prepare him for his next workout in the morning if i don't know how much physical activity and the differences between the right and left side so i would literally count this is how ..."

33
1:00:03 - 1:01:07
1:03 duration158 words

The Power of Accountability

Grover shares a powerful compliment from Michael Jordan, highlighting the significance of accountability in their relationship. He explains how both he and Jordan held each other accountable to maintain high performance standards, illustrating the critical role of mutual responsibility in achieving greatness.

"that is a big compliment he ultimately introduced you to somebody else when he retired and stepped out of the game after 15 years of you working together which was kobe and i found it really intriguin..."

34
1:01:07 - 1:02:20
1:13 duration168 words

Staying at the Top

Tim Grover elaborates on the challenges of maintaining success after reaching the pinnacle of one's career. He discusses how accountability often diminishes as individuals achieve success, and the importance of continuous effort and focus to remain at the top, using Michael Jordan's philosophy as a guiding principle.

"the end of the conversation i said mj you hired me to do a job at the highest level i said you cannot do a job at the highest level without accountability i said once the accountability is broken betw..."

35
1:02:20 - 1:03:36
1:15 duration195 words

The Thorny Path to Success

Grover uses the metaphor of thorns to explain how challenges and tough experiences can propel individuals to greater heights. He reflects on Michael Jordan's demanding nature and how pushing teammates to their limits ultimately fostered a culture of excellence and trust within the team.

"accountability look like what are the signs of it i give you great example when people perform at the highest level in business sometimes a boss or the person above them ceo whatever's allowed you kno..."

36
1:03:36 - 1:05:00
1:24 duration241 words

Tough Love in Leadership

Tim Grover discusses Michael Jordan's approach to motivating his teammates through tough love, often perceived as harsh. He emphasizes that while some may view this as toxic, the results speak for themselves, and many players later appreciated the intensity and dedication that drove them to succeed.

"this mountaintop those are all the right things to do don't exhale because the air is so much thinner up on the top than it is on the climb to the top and if you exhale the next breath you have to cat..."

37
1:05:00 - 1:06:01
1:01 duration162 words

The Importance of Trust

Grover explains how Michael Jordan filtered teammates based on their ability to handle pressure and adversity. He highlights the significance of trust in high-stakes situations and how Jordan's demanding nature helped identify those who could rise to the occasion.

"world toxic it worked for him and it was the only the only way he knew he knew how and it's a lot of people may consider things toxic when they initially start out but then when you see the end result..."

38
1:06:01 - 1:07:36
1:34 duration245 words

Mind Over Matter

In this segment, Grover reflects on the balance between emotional intelligence and decisiveness in leadership. He shares personal experiences of procrastination in decision-making and the lessons learned about the importance of making tough choices promptly to avoid greater consequences later.

"there so when michael was constantly pushing his players getting them to l everybody knew he was not coming down to their level he didn't expect everybody to come up to his level but he knew there was..."

39
1:07:36 - 1:09:02
1:26 duration274 words

Winning vs. Showing Up

Tim Grover challenges the common belief that 'showing up is half the battle.' He argues that merely being present is not enough for success and emphasizes the need for active engagement and performance to truly win, drawing on his experiences with high achievers.

"enough yes i won't say they were good enough as one he that he could trust in certain situations trust me it was the the thorns were more for trust how how can can i keep poking you oh how many times ..."

40
1:09:02 - 1:14:43
5:40 duration1042 words

The Pursuit of Excellence

Grover recounts a recent experience of adapting to unexpected challenges while preparing for a podcast. He underscores the importance of attention to detail and the relentless pursuit of excellence, illustrating how true success requires more than just showing up—it demands adaptability and commitment.

"individuals around i just it's too easy too many times we let people off the hook i can't let an individual off the hook because it's too easy think about the time that you left you let somebody off t..."

41
1:15:01 - 1:16:30
1:29 duration264 words

Generational Regret

Tim Grover discusses the concept of generational regret, explaining how the consequences of one's decisions can affect future generations. He warns that the 'bill from regret' is often passed down, and it is crucial to confront and pay off this debt through hard decisions. Grover stresses that understanding the impact of one's choices is essential for personal growth and for breaking negative cycles in families.

"unsee it right you can't unsee it you just can't you can't i you know people always said you know you know you can't you can't forget what you've seen you can't unlearn what you've learned you just yo..."

42
1:16:30 - 1:18:02
1:31 duration235 words

Teaching Independence Through Sacrifice

In this heartfelt segment, Tim Grover shares how his dedication to his career has shaped his relationship with his daughter. He recounts a moment when she expressed her understanding of his sacrifices, highlighting the lessons she learned about independence and decision-making. Grover emphasizes that while the path to success may involve difficult choices, these experiences can ultimately teach valuable life skills to loved ones.

"from a personal standpoint i will say this winning will cost you everything but we'll reward you with so much more it's going to cost you everything and i every decision i've made i knew what the cons..."

43
1:18:02 - 1:20:08
2:06 duration265 words

The Price of Regret

Tim Grover warns about the high cost of regret, suggesting that the consequences of inaction can be more severe than the sacrifices made for success. He encourages listeners to consider the long-term effects of their choices and to be prepared to face the repercussions of missed opportunities. Grover's insights serve as a powerful reminder that the fear of making tough decisions should not overshadow the potential for growth and achievement.

"i kept packing now i'm not telling anybody out there that's a decision they should make but that was my decision and then many years later i sat down my daughter and i said hey i want to talk to you a..."

44
1:20:08 - 1:21:16
1:08 duration154 words

The Unseen Sacrifices

In this segment, Tim Grover reflects on the often-overlooked sacrifices made in pursuit of success. He shares personal anecdotes about flying back to Chicago for his daughter's events, emphasizing that while these moments may go unnoticed, they are crucial to maintaining relationships. Grover highlights the importance of balancing professional commitments with personal life, reminding listeners that success is not just about achievements but also about being present for loved ones.

"to move on and the only way that bill gets paid off is you got to be willing to make the hardest decisions the other side of that story is i would often fly my family was in chicago i was doing work o..."

45
1:21:16 - 1:22:04
0:47 duration142 words

Closing Reflections

As the podcast draws to a close, Tim Grover expresses gratitude for the conversation and reflects on the insights shared. He acknowledges the impact of the discussion on his own thoughts and encourages listeners to consider their own journeys. Grover's closing remarks serve as a powerful reminder of the importance of self-reflection and the continuous pursuit of excellence in both personal and professional realms.

"and i guaranteed every individual who's one at multiple things who's been successful at many things over and over again at some point in your career some point in your life you forgot a very important..."