"and they stick in the in the human mind and so do you know one of the things that i i so appreciate like hey that like the disquisition on memes is just fantastic like i feel like i could just listen ..."

"hi i'm jim o'shaughnessy and welcome to infinite loops sometimes we get caught up in what feel like infinite loops when trying to figure things out markets go up and down research is presented and the..."

"think the way we think and how we might be able to change that to avoid going in infinite loops of thought we hope to offer our listeners a fresh perspective on a variety of issues and look at them th..."

"linguistics and yes also through quantitative analysis and through these discussions help you not only become a better investor but also become a more nuanced thinker with each episode we hope to brin..."

"jim o'shaughnessy is chairman and co-chief investment officer of o'shaughnessy asset management where jamie catherwood is an associate all opinions expressed by jim jamie and podcast guests are solely..."

"of o'shaughnessy asset management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast well hello everyone it's jim o'shaughnessy with another episode of infinite loops and i was chattin..."

"years ago or 35 years ago just kidding just kidding um but literally we love all the same things jimmy has written this amazing book the founders on paypal which we'll be talking quite a bit about but..."

"and it kills me that he is not as well known as einstein i think as jimmy noted in his book it was like maybe it was because the father of information theory and communication theory was very uncommun..."

"this is a pleasure i mean this is like like it is it's interesting because you and i you know have gotten to know each other through people we kind of know mutually on twitter but every part of what i..."

"we were to depict this right we're having a zoom meeting thanks to claude shannon's compression algorithm where we're going to talk about claude shannon and talk about elon who had a whole meditation ..."

"is great and one of the things that you say on it which i was just like my wife is looking at me and she goes okay so you're obviously excited tell me about the guy you're having on um you you write u..."

"the precautionary principle ruled and like no new ideas were ever investigated because they were suppressed so i love that that is what drives you and sort of drove you to the books you've written and..."

"normal distribution which has a very narrow peak up here and super long tails right i am massively excited about the right side of that because it allows for all the things you just said i i also am w..."

"through no fault of their own uh this world is becomes much more difficult for them it's like i changed my mind on universal basic income i changed my mind on doing like uh success dividends like ever..."

"yeah yeah but then the first sumerian uh tablet that they found was essentially um a poet complaining that all the good poems had been written that's hilarious here's your let me add let me add someth..."

"i i look back even in my generation to my parents who came here who came to the united states by way of india um to communicate with their relatives back home they would have to do these aerograms eve..."

"you can read on scholar.google.com or on like free books that are downloadable through kindle or if you're really hard up like you could find all these weird forms or they'll just take pdfs of books a..."

"pretty recent trend i mean like even audiobooks right audiobooks and kindle are probably the two biggest two big changes in my life right where that is a relatively recent transformation right often w..."

"bit about paypal because a the book is amazing just a a great read and one of the first things i wanted to ask you was about the the sort of path that what was originally called confinity uh took to t..."

"for today is like first principles thinking but they are reasoning sort of if you were going to begin from xero and use technology as a lever or for whatever you're trying to do what would you do and ..."

"creating paper pal now the important second part of that story is they you know it ends up that they create a much a different product which we know of as paypal which becomes a another rail another w..."

"and you know by the way uh in that same context the sovereign individual was was out in sort of the 90s and i i have this theory that the reason that the pivot to paypal being what it is worked and ma..."

"everything comes out of the minds of human beings and essentially i i always say that like ground state reality okay is is the reality that most sentient beings believe in at any given time and there'..."

"has that kind of money would say money doesn't have power in and of itself but in fact what he's making is an argument about money as an expression of information and thus money could be digitized int..."

"dot com boom and was built in the dot com bust because they had to survive you had to let's say trim trim some of the ideals right trim the sales on some of the ideals so that you could get to a compa..."

"company when they have to take an idea and then you know abandon it it's why like people will knock like you know they'll knock experiments like google glass or the thing that snapchat did earlier and..."

"that is how we get the iphone right it is how we get to the thing that we want and i i don't know maybe again this is the optimist in me but like i think those stories which are you know sound quote-u..."

"know you're going to get knocked down you're going to get back up you're going to know more um i don't think i've ever met in my career and i've had the uh luxury and and honor of meeting like some re..."

"busy with other things so i read it and i loved it so much that i went on to the status game which i'm having him on the podcast to discuss both brilliant insights and one of the things back to jobs a..."

"so jobs got so worked up about it according to the store book that he went in the next day and he goes we're doing computers and tablets it was a status thing right it was like there's no way that gu..."

"an ipo i would often be i was i remember being in the room with peter thiel and i would say so why take the company public right like you brass tax really walk me through like what was the rationale w..."

"that i think of those things fundamentally as things we're celebrating we're we're talking at actually a super interesting cultural moment because one of the interesting responses to my book has been ..."

"really good point let's let's let's shift that to elon himself elon musk so i don't really have a dog in the hunt with with elon in that we're quants and so if any of his companies go into our portfol..."

"what do you think yeah i mean look there's a lot to unpack there and the the little asterisk or that not the little asterisk the asterisk i need to attach to any discussions sort of about him is simpl..."

"the first is this in the years 1999 to 2002 during which i'm writing about him he is almost ousted in as the ceo once he's actually ousted later he almost dies of malaria and meningitis he almost dies..."

"profoundly wrong there's a great book called liftoff by eric berger that covers the early days of spacex and how tenuous it was this is not somebody who he basically put his entire fortune on the line..."

"and by the way let's let's extend it a little further i'll give i'll give it another observation that i've seen i have this i have this great vantage point of like because i don't engage in the day-to..."

"are excited about engineering entrepreneurship because of him and and that is that that argument is made like he could die right now and you'd be able to make the same argument yeah and i'll just push..."

"models are best selling in the world without the solar city without like like yes he says some things on twitter and occasionally puts out like dinosaur memes with the airpods in it which by the way i..."

"could tweet all you want there are plenty of people who do but a lot of those people have not started auto companies and space logistics firms as well right so i i think that sometimes the the the ang..."

"what i would challenge people to look at is you know that's the thing to study is like whoa how is it that this company there's been not another auto manufacturer made in the united states in how many..."

"pushing it all in and like burning the ships and having no plan b you do have a plan you do have a plan b but that's that's in the plan of plan a you said it perfectly you're mostly wrong but you iter..."

"right because they don't want to be quoted or misquoted or whatever the second thing that's interesting that you mentioned i'm betting that if you were to interview the decades of people that you've h..."

"i don't know if that's true but i'm betting it's true because i heard it from enough people who are at paypal they all have their various stories and various good bad ugly situations but the thing tha..."

"no this is a swearing podcast the people i interviewed were some of the smartest people that i've ever been in contact with and they are never going to be the subject of wall street journal stories an..."

"that's the way i look at money um and i think that you know by the way there's over all history there's all sorts of people who look at it the same way right uh robert anton wilson who i admire and i'..."

"but what i wanted to ask you because i found it really interesting in the book on shannon you're talking about the idea that like he wasn't the greatest communicator in the world right even though his..."

"the other thing that happened to him that was fortunate is he was on the ground and friendly with people who began some of these tech companies and he was appointed to boards and so he had a kind of s..."

"about this and about that and he's doing you know podcasts and he's doing conferences and he's on the board of everything and you know and and i i think you are right that that there's a great many pe..."

"daughter uh came of agent in brooklyn you know she spent sort of years two to two to now in brooklyn and there's this great carousel there and i wrote it so many times that i wrote to the person who h..."

"and he continues to make money from them opportunity and whatever he has this great moment where he says look all this stuff mcdonald's and wheaties and air jordans like it came about because i played..."

"devotion to the craft i think that's very useful if someone's listening who is irrationally like passionate about one thing and one thing alone i think we need more defending of that right i actually ..."

"world if you are the next giro and you were dreaming of sushi well dream on because you could be the like in a good way by aerosmith way like be be that be that good at sushi that people will fly arou..."

"man yeah i'm gonna say we could we've only scratched the surface jim this is like we could go all day with this totally totally uh so that's why i'm really interested in your answer to our final quest..."

"right um the the make things part is kind of self-evident like we there is so much that is still to be made and we look up to justifiably and admire those who do make things and i think that that's th..."

"the tree down it could cause real damage he has the people out to to cut the tree and he says could you instead carve this into a pole and i'm gonna fly a jolly roger at the top of it there's like no ..."