"you are probably gonna be fired for this letter that you wrote Sam is going to destroy your professional reputation like where do you think you're gonna be able to work after FTX it was he was threate..."

"yeah so maybe it's good for individual investors to put their money in passives uh Investments but what about like the health of the market as a whole is it hampered by how much money it goes into pas..."

"way these firms how International Civics but how similar are the strategies for Market making or trading that James freed versus Citadel and these four percent is it the same sorts of strategies or ar..."

"like for example here's uh a famous One not famous I think I read it in a paper and like a bunch of other you know developers from different other companies told me about this it's not something I saw..."

"that signal faster like why is it good for a society that people so much so many resources and so much brain power is spent on these kinds of hacks and these kinds of optimizations yeah so I think if ..."

"that should affect the current price of stock in a different part of the world I think that if you care about efficient markets you want the gap between like source of Truth events and ultimate price ..."

"got it has being a market maker change your views about civilizational tailor risk because you're worried and like you're worried about personally getting run over right by some sort of weird event in..."

"where this was going to head long term and I think if you have the like the fortune of having the financial flexibility to be able to do something like this a lot of like the people in kind of financi..."

"history matching engines already have to deal with the fact that you can have orders coming from like Illinois you can have orders coming from Japan and given light speed they're not going to arrive a..."

"other things you can do too like you could establish like periodic auctions instead of like continuous matching and things like that and that could potentially help mitigate some of these issues yeah ..."

"as well um but it's hard to tell it's really hard to tell what country I mean in your long experience of dribbling Financial infrastructure what country do you feel has the best uh infrastructure and ..."

"how do adverse selection in trading and hiring differ in hiring there are one many more opportunities for positive selection versus the negative selection you usually encounter in finance and the othe..."

"it's not exactly the same like adverse lotion Dynamics as there is in the traditional trading worlds yeah yeah definitely especially if you have like I guess Mission oriented companies have a especial..."

"base level program that you can write in Rust is much much faster than one you can write no camel because of the way all camel's design where there's this kind of automatic garbage collection the wors..."

"the speed that you get which is like very comparable to C plus plus on the speed side well when I'm writing programs they're not large code bases with many people contributing so what not used for us ..."

"because they've had that like three month period where they got trained and only the ones that really liked it and were good come back so it's like rather than wait for them to come on site train peop..."

"competitor I want to come to you yeah I clearly got in the wrong business with podcasts why did you pursue um Finance Dev instead of uh trading well why did that appeal more to you yeah so in college ..."

"instead I want to ask about the culture at these sorts of places like uh Citadel or Jane Street I mean you spend some time in Silicon Valley and around like traditional sort of like startup scene as w..."

"pragmatist in that context um how conspicuous I mean you were just mentioning earlier that these Traders are making mid six figure salaries to begin with let alone where they arise over their careers ..."

"what is the social consequence for lack of a better word of having a bunch of young nerdy people often male often single having this extraordinary level of wealth like what impact does it have I don't..."

"hope that's the way it plays out um to tell me about the psychology of being a Quant or a Trader or a developer in that space because you're responsible like one wrong keystroke and you're you've lost..."

"proof no matter what some Trader clicks on or does or configures with their system there's like a limit to how uh how bad they can actually go um and so especially in my particular role as a developer..."

"very efficiently invest in vehicles that are Global in nature that seems very abstract and while while like it it is probably very well correct and is very valuable for society it might not seem that ..."

"by addressing the elephant in the room which is FTX let's begin uh at Jane Street which is where you met SBF can you tell us sort of the origin story of how you first met him and what your first impre..."

"managers and one of my roles at Jane Street was to work with all of the different trading desks on the designs of their particular strategies and systems and so I would frequently go over to his desk ..."

"like automated trading systems what kind of research tools will help them do their job better what user interface would make it easier for them to understand what's going on in the market and kind of ..."

"few things kind of went by the wayside and you know they had taken out these huge loans to be able to get their initial capital for Alameda and also there was a big fracture within the company you kno..."

"collapse I think there were two things um one was the infrastructure they had built I think was really poor in the beginning a lot of like Python scripts like slapped together and a couple times they ..."

"originally happened okay got it and were you aware of the extent of this at the time or you know something not at all I mean Sam told me a little bit about it but this was over the course of you know ..."

"I'm considering starting a political prediction Market that was in 2018. okay yeah uh so I it was right after I left Jane Street got it okay and so now you've moved on to Citadel and so you I guess yo..."

"and you know he was like telling me a couple things going on at FTX and then he said you know if you're interested in coming over to FTX we would still love to have you and I thought still if we never..."

"include you know crypto spot crypto and crypto derivatives and it was also one of the primary destinations for institutions you know proprietary trading firms hedge funds to trade crypto and derivativ..."

"kind of longer term desires to be a single app or Marketplace for everything not just crypto so be you know just launching a stocks trading platform as well and so that was like one of the reasons I t..."

"footsteps and its success and that was the part that was most exciting to me because this is what I've been doing now for years is like managing large teams of people thinking about strategy getting p..."

"like separate compliance and legal and operational and support teams start to build out these regulated entities with Chicago the initial base of that operation yeah I mean for selfish reasons my fami..."

"of interest to me like you know because I mean for the primary reason being that I wasn't interested in doing prop again you know like I I worked at James trade I worked at Headlands Tech outside Stud..."

"like gotten an offer to a company and said like before I signed I'm sure you show me your audited finances and just like not a thing that happens right right okay um fair enough so you join FTX and th..."

"it was very hard to follow I don't know if you've ever seen like a large python code base before and so whenever there were issues that arose you know oh like there's like this particular problem with..."

"uh and almost like sort of cult-like belief in this small team like being the butt for cause of all past present and future success what was the discretion that you had at FTX us it sounds like you we..."

"I'm kind of like the day-to-day operational stuff um especially the decisions within some of the things I was responsible for like the stocks uh you know creating platform that I was working on you kn..."

"being unwise uh that like I don't know you try to speak out against um I I mean you mentioned some of them right like not hiring enough people and uh not getting more yeah not getting more developers ..."

"bring this up directly with SPF yeah multiple times and how would he respond sometimes he was you know nice about it and he would say you know like yeah like I see where you're coming from I do think ..."

"a slack or signal messages and not get responses for weeks at a time and it felt like he was spending virtually no time helping the company move forward it was so much about image and brand and PR and..."

"dollar Empire uh yeah but sometimes like some reporters would say to me like you know do you can you like get me in touch with Sam and I would say you know why like I'm not really his keeper you could..."

"media and they loved it it was like getting access to a direct expert who was also this famous person who was also this billionaire who was also this extremely well connected person who was also this ..."

"be shaken and I certainly don't blame anybody for it I I interviewed him I try to do a lot of research before I interview him and I certainly was like totally taken with this right I thought he was th..."

"exchanges around the world that also offer derivatives and knowing all their problems like for example if you had an ether futurist position and also an ether spot position on just one Exchange you co..."

"and that had to have come from the initial intuitions that Sam and his colleagues got from being Traders on these exchanges and thinking how should this work if it were perfect so I do think in the be..."

"feels kind of reasonable like how much does Coca-Cola spend per year on marketing of as a percentage of their income it's probably somewhere between like 50 and 130 you know I don't actually know what..."

"sure let's talk about Alameda so I guess again the maybe the best point to start this story is also with Jane Street um where Caroline Ellison who I went out to become the CEO of Alameda was um was a ..."

"so it wasn't like Alameda could overhear stuff happening on the exchange or people in The Exchange could overhear stuff that was happening at Alameda so just to some extent I felt like well at least t..."

"I think everything else is all just things that were red flags about the organization not red flags about you know potential liquidity issues are fraud things like you know the complete inability to h..."

"the time are you uh there are you referring to these sort of management um mishaps and bad decision making or is there was there something more that made you come to this conclusion I think it was mor..."

"and it was a matter of when not if and but what I did know was that like I'm still a professional I'm still loyal to the company I still believe the company itself had an incredible potential to conti..."

"anymore so the employees were distraught and what I learned later from several investors and reporters who had talked to me was that when they talked to Sam about my leaving Sam told them that my my l..."

"why do you think they were so concerned about were they like trying to invest in FTX in the future or they were existing FTX investors okay and I think it really mattered to them what Sam thought of t..."

"like this is did not compute for me at all so I was like well you know this will blow up oil over in a couple days like everything else and the next morning you know I was actually busy talking to lik..."

"joining to the company collapsing I want to do a sort of like overview of I I guess like what exactly was happening that caused the company to collapse and I guess the lessons there right so okay so i..."

"of a multi-billion Dollar Empire I don't know it seems like something that's uh I can't quite speak to like whether people would think there are you know mental health issues of like other like you kn..."

"nobody's role to be the you know the guy who's like this was my job and I was a person remember regardless of how experienced or inexperienced people within the company are regardless of how many or f..."

"someone might look at this and say um listen Brad you're wearing like a junior Trader who was like right out of MIT or something who just joined um FTX you have uh more than 10 years of experience in ..."

"like the the counterfactual here is one where okay first I have to believe that there is some kind of fraud which I don't then I have to say Okay I I would like to start auditing all Bank transactions..."

"a job for enforcement like people will commit crimes and there's nothing one can do to stop all people from committing all possible future crimes what gun can do is come up with the right structures a..."

"somebody do when they're seeing all this happening I mean obviously it's like very admirable and uh that you put this in like writing to him you give it to him and then you resigned when he refused to..."

"it's easy for for me to say and I've been in some fortunate positions within companies and have you know personal flexibility it might not be so easy for the average person to sort of get up and leave..."

"like yeah I definitely think it's been set back um you know it's interesting uh Walt Luken from the Futures industry Association in a conference that was shortly after the class of FTX you know talked..."

"during those hearings I guess the establishment you know CME and others brought up criticisms like oh we have these sort of biscuit relationships with our clients and if you just have this algorithm t..."

"in order for the like Regulators get comfortable with the application they had to understand that ftx's one entity was performing the roles that typically multiple different entities perform and one y..."

"I do think like the Auto Liquidation part was the main piece that people were hung up on which was like how do you provably show the kind of worst case scenario in Auto Liquidation Cascade then again ..."

"disagree with the premise like I don't think the point of crypto is record for Arbitrage I think the while crypto remains unregulated it is easier to get some things done in crypto than if it were reg..."

"make sure that it's done well one very important question about the whole objects thing is like what did the conventional narrative about how it went down and why it went down what did it get wrong gi..."

"proliferate and whether that's from like a Twitter troll or if it's from Sam fagment freed himself you know trying to like spread Mr information about what happened I think a lot of it wasn't really g..."

"conversation yeah yeah and I guess the earlier account you gave of his day-long media Cycles kind of lends Gruden's to that mentality I have a question about the future of the people who are at FTX th..."

"good note to close the FTX chapter of the interview on sure let's talk about architect your new company do you want to introduce people to what architect is doing and what problem is solving sure so t..."

"time and so it sounds like this is a solution for people with significant levels of assets and investment in crypto I'm assuming it's not for so I think that's like the place we want to start yeah but..."

"something like this which includes these kind of like high-powered individuals in addition to your small medium large hedge funds and Prop Shops and different institutions and is the goal to is crypto..."

"system I guess this race is a broader question of if you're initially trying to solve for the problems that these exchanges should natively have solutions to at least or some of the problems are the o..."

"all of my r d dollars into like providing new products and you know offering you different kinds of services or maybe investment advisory or you know lowering the uh the barrier to entry to connecting..."

"no idea so I'm much more excited about providing the kind of uh kind of connectivity layer to all them and saying regardless of where the liquidity ends up we'll be able to facilitate it we'll be spea..."

"trading it and in the aftermath of FTX and other things I mean all crypto companies have like a special scrutiny on them and fairly or unfairly if there's like FTX alumni it'll be even more so like ho..."

"even what's happened I I think it is just as great as it was before every like major you know Investment Bank in the U.S has announced some like plan to do something with blockchain technology still e..."

"of any commodity yeah and sometimes there are tokens that have more security-like properties where they are like trading Apple stock you know basically like they there is a was an initial offering of ..."

"because fixed income products have an even worse settlement Cycles than equities should the marginal uh crypto Trader stop trading like I mean maybe this is this might also be a good question to ask b..."

"profitable okay so that is I think a good point to end the conversation we got to talk a chance to talk about a lot of things let's let the audience know where they can find out more about architect a..."