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a16z Podcast | Connecting Hearts, Bodies, and Networks to Cure Cancer
24 segments available
Veterinary oncology can inform human oncology, and vice versa -- providing a better model for looking at drug performance, interrelationships, and more. Especially when you add in data (there's no "doggy HIPAA!") and networks to get a "living laboratory at scale". Or so argues Amy Abernethy (Chief Medical and Chief Scientific Officer at Flatiron Health and advisor to One Health), who was recently named the new Principal Deputy Commissioner of the FDA, pending ethics clearance; and Christina Lopes, CEO and co-founder of One Health; in conversation with a16z bio general partner Jorge Conde. Dogs -- as a species, as pets, as companions, as family members -- evolved alongside humans, so are actually more similar to us... not just genetically and in terms of the biologic pathways that may cause cancer, but also in exposure to similar environmental factors as well. But what does this all mean when it comes to thinking about real-world evidence in science, human clinical trials, and more broadly, building a bio company? How can product designers -- of all kinds -- backwards-architect their product roadmap for data network effects? And how can bio founders keep both a big-picture roadmap in mind while also focusing on specific milestones, and while working across unconnected disciplines as well? We cover all this and more in this special episode of the a16z Podcast, recorded during the recent J.P.M. healthcare conference in San Francisco.
Segments Timeline
Introduction to Veterinary Oncology
In this segment, the hosts introduce the episode featuring Amy Abernethy and Christina Lopes, discussing the intersection of veterinary and human oncology. They highlight the importance of understanding cancer in dogs as a model for human cancer treatment, emphasizing the shared evolutionary history and environmental factors that contribute to cancer in both species.
"hi everyone welcome to the a 6nz podcast I am sonal so today we have another one of our special episodes with more special guests that was recorded during the recent JPM healthcare conference in San F..."
The Genetic Link Between Dogs and Cancer
Amy Abernethy explains how dogs, like humans, are predisposed to cancer due to genetic mutations and environmental factors. She discusses the impact of breeding practices and shared living conditions on cancer development, illustrating the complex relationship between dogs and their human companions in the context of health and disease.
"the link to humans you know dogs come from wolves they co-evolved with us right and similar to other animals they are predisposed to cancer as we are very similar the idea there is certain litters I g..."
Understanding Cancer Diagnosis in Dogs
Christina Lopes outlines the current methods for diagnosing cancer in dogs, focusing on histopathology and the behavioral changes that indicate illness. She emphasizes the importance of data collection from pet owners, who often provide detailed observations about their pets' health, which can enhance understanding of disease progression.
"also with those who give us their best right has the dog genome been sequenced so the the genome of the dog was sequenced but very recently I believe it was you know 2010 2005 it's very recent veterin..."
The Interrelationship of Dog and Human Oncology
Amy Abernethy discusses the parallels between dog and human cancer, highlighting the genetic and environmental factors that contribute to both. She explains how studying canine cancer can inform human oncology, providing insights into treatment efficacy and drug development, thus bridging the gap between veterinary and human medicine.
"talk about that six million cases a year diagnosed cancer in the United States in dogs how do they get diagnosed and how do they get treated today so the diagnosis is a hysto path so that's basically ..."
Aha Moments in Veterinary Oncology
Abernethy shares her personal 'aha' moment regarding the connection between veterinary and human oncology. She reflects on a conference that revealed how understanding drug performance in dogs could accelerate human cancer research, emphasizing the potential for dogs to serve as effective models in drug development.
"it's really interesting so first of all I'm not a melanoma doctor by background so I was a human oncologist definitely not a veterinary oncologist dogs get melanoma dogs get melanoma they certainly do..."
The Role of Dogs in Drug Development
The discussion shifts to the role of dogs in the drug approval process. Abernethy argues for integrating canine studies into human drug development to improve outcomes and reduce costs. She highlights the natural occurrence of cancer in dogs as a valuable resource for understanding treatment impacts.
"biologic level within the context of the cell there's a pathways are very similar is that more similar say dog in human versus mouse and human or or primate in humans is there is there a reason why do..."
Natural vs. Engineered Models in Cancer Research
Abernethy contrasts the natural occurrence of cancer in dogs with engineered mouse models, emphasizing the advantages of studying spontaneous disease in dogs. She discusses how this natural biology provides a more accurate representation of human cancer, making dogs an ideal model for research.
"dogs as part of the approval process not standard also it's not necessarily standard of care their message that really I walked away from that conference with was that if we now embedded into the drug..."
Connecting Data and Clinical Trials
The conversation explores the potential for developing a linked data system for canine cancer research. Abernethy discusses the possibility of dog clinical trials paralleling human trials, emphasizing the interest from pet owners and national organizations in advancing veterinary oncology.
"well of course it's a different species than human it is indeed much closer to the human than the mouse is and you know in the case of primates that first of all I think the regulatory framework is yo..."
The Emotional Impact of Cancer on Pets
Abernethy shares a poignant story about the emotional connections between pet owners and their dogs facing cancer. She highlights the importance of understanding these relationships in the context of drug development and the shared experiences of humans and their pets in battling cancer.
"of drug development what is like a real solution that we could do right now and that was the assignment that was how we were gonna get dessert and I raised my hand it's probably in your house and I st..."
The Absence of Doggy HIPAA
This segment delves into the implications of not having a 'doggy HIPAA' equivalent, allowing for easier data collection and sharing in canine health. Abernethy emphasizes the need to use this information responsibly while highlighting the advantages of a more open data environment in veterinary medicine.
"dogs being driven the data they generated has been an important source of data so let me ask you I guess two questions related that to that first of all from a mechanic's standpoint how does that data..."
Accelerating Drug Development for Dogs and Humans
Abernethy discusses the potential for creating a national or international system to accelerate drug development for both dogs and humans. She highlights the importance of collecting data at scale to improve treatment outcomes and the parallels between canine and human oncology.
"but that being said any of the impediments as we think about data aggregation and data use that we run into in human health we don't run into in dog health the spirit of HIPAA is to protect patient pr..."
Early Diagnosis of Canine Lymphoma
In this segment, Abernethy addresses the importance of early diagnosis in canine lymphoma and the potential for improving treatment outcomes. She discusses the parallels between human and dog cancers, emphasizing the need for better understanding and intervention strategies.
"and so those two pieces and that day at the meeting in Boston were in the back of my mind as I was thinking about how this might create an a national or international system to try and accelerate drug..."
Democratizing Access to Canine Oncology
Abernethy highlights the limited access to veterinary oncologists and the need to democratize treatment options for dogs. She draws on her experience in public health to advocate for increased access to cancer treatments for pets, aiming to improve outcomes for all dogs.
"to perform there's similar parallels in dog cancer and as the science evolves and I mean from the human side bringing what stopped in human back to the dog at an affordable price when a dog is diagnos..."
Genetic Insights into Canine Cancer
This segment focuses on the genetic aspects of canine cancer, discussing known mutations like B-RAF in transitional cell carcinoma. Abernethy emphasizes the importance of understanding these genetic factors to improve treatment strategies for dogs.
"kind of be a fighter for that with all the technology so on that note we're talking about catching disease earlier so we can have you know more successful intervention humans have cancer predispositio..."
Interconnected Health: Dogs and Humans
Abernethy and Lopes discuss the interconnectedness of dog and human health, emphasizing the potential for shared insights in oncology. They explore how advancements in canine cancer treatment can inform human therapies, highlighting the importance of data collection and analysis in both fields.
"learn so help me close the loop here and you know where this conversation starts is a connection between dog health and human health Cristina you're focused on one health here to really change the way..."
Harnessing Data for Better Outcomes
The conversation shifts to the importance of data collection in veterinary oncology. Abernethy discusses how gathering real-world evidence can enhance understanding of treatment efficacy and inform future therapies. This segment emphasizes the role of data in improving outcomes for dogs and potentially translating those findings to human cancer treatments.
"right we're doing our real-world evidence research that's our you know scientific or indie hat really but we really want to treat and serve the community so to that end we look at actionable mutations..."
Exploring Combination Therapies
This segment explores the potential of combination therapies in veterinary oncology. The speakers discuss how understanding the interactions between different drugs can lead to more effective treatment plans for dogs. They highlight the importance of leveraging insights from veterinary oncology to inform human cancer treatment strategies.
"think about combination therapies for dogs we're seeing an explosion across oncology of the development of combinations including combinations in the Emilia Oncology space and so think about setting u..."
Building a Network for Clinical Trials
Abernethy discusses the establishment of a networked data system that can facilitate clinical trials in veterinary oncology. This segment highlights the innovative approach of using dogs as models for human clinical trials, allowing for faster testing of combination therapies and enhancing the translational potential of veterinary research.
"forth so the product gets in continuously better is there an ancillary data network effect that actually accretes back to the human side is there anything we can learn about combination therapy that m..."
The Dual Product Development Model
The speakers discuss the dual nature of product development in veterinary oncology, focusing on both the treatment of dogs and the generation of valuable data. This segment emphasizes the importance of prioritizing patient care while simultaneously building a robust data infrastructure to support ongoing research and development.
"space is this a flatiron for dogs this is flattering for dogs we've already begun to do that both in the traditional more R&D setting with clinical trial sites but then also now you know thinking from..."
Navigating the Startup Landscape
Abernethy shares insights on the challenges of building a startup in the veterinary oncology space. This segment covers the importance of setting short-term goals, gathering market feedback, and being adaptable in the face of uncertainty. Founders are encouraged to balance visionary thinking with practical execution.
"things because of that stuff's in place then the clinical trials model just flows really easily that's extraordinary right because that you have there are really two products here that are of course i..."
Learning from Key Opinion Leaders
The conversation concludes with a focus on the value of input from key opinion leaders in the field. Abernethy stresses the importance of integrating expert feedback into product development and decision-making processes. This segment highlights the collaborative nature of advancing veterinary oncology and its implications for human health.
"train and the tracks almost at once for us we've surrounded ourselves with folks who can help us right because the idea is you you're gonna make mistakes but you wanna lessen the mistakes you make and..."
Balancing Product Scope and Innovation
This segment addresses the challenge of narrowing product scope in the bio sector, particularly when aiming to cure diseases. The speakers discuss the importance of prioritizing product benefits for pets and their owners while acknowledging the need for continuous improvement and data integration without over-engineering initial offerings.
"because that is really critical information but they're not those advisors who are bringing that scientific advice to you either in your company or as external advisors are not going to understand why..."
The Importance of Cross-Functional Collaboration
The discussion highlights the necessity of fostering collaboration among multidisciplinary teams in the bio industry. The speakers emphasize the need for shared language and frameworks to ensure effective communication and understanding among team members from diverse backgrounds, particularly in complex fields like oncology.
"data you can incorporate there's always be more sophistication that you can have but not trying to sort of nail that in version 1.0 because I at a gory creation is a very difficulty so I'm very much o..."
Amy Abernethy's Vision for the FDA
In this concluding segment, Amy Abernethy shares her motivations for joining the FDA and her vision for her role. She outlines her focus on accelerating evidence generation, advancing personalized medicine, and promoting patient-informed drug design, reflecting her commitment to improving healthcare outcomes.
"they're talking past each other so Amy you've been named to a senior role at the US Food and Drug Administration can you tell me a little bit about the role as you see it and what do you hope to accom..."