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Meet Silicon Valley’s #1 PR Expert — Lulu Cheng Meservey
49 segments available
Lulu Cheng Meservey gives a masterclass on non-boring corporate communications, Korean pop culture, and religious fanaticism. Lulu shares what she’s learned running comms for startups, decoding cultural erogenous zones, and crafting impactful messages in 280 characters or less. Whether you're a writer, a communications professional, or simply curious about the intersection of K-POP and Internet whackos, this podcast is a window into modern communication. TIMESTAMPS: 00:00:01 Intro 00:00:32 Why Lulu thinks that corporate communications exists 00:01:36 How Lulu avoids “corporate speak” 00:02:30 How do you write when anxiety and tension is high 00:03:20 Lulu’s process for creating corporate communications 00:04:34 How Lulu conveys emotion in writing 00:05:05 Do companies have a personality? 00:06:40 Do companies have a soul? 00:08:15 Lulu’s career path 00:09:15 Why Lulu throws down and Game Theory behind it 00:10:00 Tit for two tats 00:11:30 The art of good writing 00:12:20 Why media is so vicious 00:12:40 Why Lulu joined Substack 00:13:09 Lulu’s study of counter-insurgency 00:14:45 How Christianity shows us the most powerful story arc 00:16:35 Joe Rogan & distribution channels (Trade-off of quantity vs depth of audience) 00:19:00 Amazon’s Bezos “Focus on the customer” 00:20:00 How Lulu thinks about driving slogans 00:20:38 ABBA structure 00:21:10 The Behavioral Psychology of communications 00:21:50 David’s Law 00:22:30 Framing your offer 00:24:00 Cultural Erogenous Zones 00:25:25 API to make writing compatible with what people care about 00:25:41 Kamala Harris’s message about national defense vs. education 00:27:00 Lulu’s writing process and habits 00:28:20 How ancient Greek debate ideas 00:29:30 Why Lulu thinks that communicators should take more risks 00:32:30 Illusion of transparency 00:32:55 How Lulu works with editors 00:34:12 Twitter as a medium 00:35:20 Why it’s easier to defend others than yourself 00:36:25 Writing for your 5 year old 00:37:20 Between personal and corporate 00:38:48 Twitter growth tactics 00:40:09 Meet your people 00:40:50 Quality of audience 00:41:00 Jesus and 12,000 disciples 00:41:28 Substack and growth tactics 00:41:55 Lulu’s keys to a good newsletter 00:43:08 People with unique writing styles 00:44:20 Learning English 00:45:00 Lulu’s job interview misunderstanding 00:46:00 What Lulu is reading to improve her writing 00:47:50 Risk Management 00:53:00 Writer brain vs Friend brain 00:54:10 Washington D.C. 00:55:00 Different lenses of writing 00:56:00 Storytelling 00:57:00 Statistics & Accusations 00:58:30 Framing 00:59:00 How to use comms to grow a show 01:01:00 Crypto and AI 01:02:00 Distribution / podcasts 01:04:00 How to explain yourself to others 01:05:00 What we can learn from Bitcoin 01:06:25 K-Pop 01:07:20 Evangelism 01:09:40 Why Lulu is compelled to write SPEAKER: Lulu is currently the Executive Vice President of Corporate Affairs and Chief Communications Officer at Activision Blizzard, and was formerly head of comms at Substack. Her newsletter “Flack” is a new playbook for communications, written to help you win over people who matter, without wasting time or being cringe. Lulu's Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/lulumeservey Lulu's Newsletter: https://www.getflack.com WRITE OF PASSAGE: Want to learn more about the next class Write of Passage? Click here: https://take.writeofpassage.school/writing-sprints PODCAST LINKS: Website: https://writeofpassage.school/how-i-write/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv ABOUT THE HOST: I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. How I Write is a podcast by Write of Passage // Production by Adam Soccolich
Segments Timeline
The Origins of Corporate Speak
Lulu Cheng Meservey discusses the frustrating existence of corporate speak, attributing it to risk minimization and a lack of personality in corporate communications. She argues that companies often prioritize avoiding trouble over seizing opportunities, leading to a bland and robotic communication style.
"why in the world does corporate speak exist? It drives me crazy, and you have all these companies. Without personality, people don't talk like that. What is going on behind corporate speak? It's risk ..."
Breaking Free from Corporate Speak
Lulu shares her method for avoiding corporate jargon by reading her writing aloud. She emphasizes the importance of authenticity in communication and how it can improve overall writing quality, especially during high-stress situations.
"We can talk about that later, but that's one thing. I think another thing is it's existed for so long, it's been with us, so aliens could have brought it at the time of the pyramids. It's, it's just b..."
Writing Under Pressure
In this segment, Lulu explains how to prepare for writing during high-pressure situations. She advocates for preemptive planning and knowing your audience and priorities, allowing for quick adjustments when crises arise.
"If something, if it's something that you would never say, then you, you won't be able to say it out loud like your body prevents you from doing it, or you could say it to someone in your family. Just ..."
Establishing Authority in Communication
Lulu outlines the importance of establishing authority within a communications team to facilitate quick decision-making. She compares this to a battlefield scenario, emphasizing the need for clarity in roles and responsibilities to avoid delays in critical moments.
"pillars of your statement in place. And then when the day comes, it's basically like mad libs. You're filling in details, information, a few verbs and nouns here and there, but the contours of that sh..."
Conveying Emotion in Writing
Lulu discusses the challenge of conveying emotions in corporate writing. She suggests focusing on one or two dominant emotions to create a strong impact, rather than overwhelming the audience with multiple feelings.
"So let's take a comms org. If you know that within this sphere you just have discretion, then you can move quickly. And then if you know that if it rises to this other level of importance or high stak..."
Giving Companies a Personality
Lulu emphasizes the importance of giving companies a relatable personality that resonates with their audience. She believes that hiring from the community and reflecting cultural values can foster a sense of familiarity and trust between the company and its customers.
"Then maybe a dominant urge of something that they would like to do that you have called them to do, that's a win. When you think of the companies you work for, do you think of giving them a personalit..."
Do Companies Have a Soul?
In this thought-provoking segment, Lulu explores whether companies can possess a 'soul.' She argues that while they may not have a spiritual essence, they can create an atmosphere that reflects their values and principles, which is often communicated through writing.
"there by the people. For the people of the people. It's a very internet notion though, right? That's not something that you would hear PR people in the seventies, the eighties say. Yeah. It is sort of..."
The Dangers of Corporate Jargon
Lulu critiques the use of corporate jargon, describing it as soulless and robotic. She highlights the ease of copying phrases instead of creating original content, which can lead to a lack of genuine communication.
"soulless, soulless and it's robotic. Yeah, exactly. And it's easier to copy those formulas than to do something entirely new, both from a risk perspective and from an effort perspective. There are phr..."
Building Trust Through Vulnerability
Lulu discusses the necessity of vulnerability and personality in corporate communication to build trust. She believes that people are more likely to trust individuals rather than faceless corporations, and emphasizes the importance of honesty in messaging.
"work. This what I find to be particularly interesting about you. Is that there is the Lulu personality and then there's the corporate personality, and then there's the intersection of both of those. A..."
Game Theory in Communication
Lulu introduces the concept of 'tit for two tatts' from game theory, explaining how it influences her approach to communication. She advocates for addressing egregious behavior in a calculated manner to shape future interactions and maintain integrity.
"much vulnerability and personality and honestly honesty. I. Possible because people don't trust corporations and there's data about this. There's surveys. People don't trust institutions. Yeah, but li..."
Creating Feelings Through Writing
Lulu reflects on the art of writing, emphasizing the importance of creating feelings in readers while maintaining a sober emotional state. She discusses the balance between personal emotion and public communication.
"people behaving that way. So by two tit for Tatts. So that means a lot of times you're, you're sort of turning the other cheek, turning the other cheek, and then you're sort of waiting and then once i..."
The Vicious Nature of Media
Lulu shares her experiences with the media's aggressive tactics, particularly when it comes to successful companies. She explains how these attacks can stem from a sense of threat and the need for a strong communication strategy.
"dry writing, or you bottle it, store it up, take a step back, and then mix it into something that is appropriate for public consumption as opposed to just letting it gush out what's behind the way tha..."
Lessons from Counterinsurgency
Drawing from her studies in counterinsurgency, Lulu discusses the parallels between spreading a message and winning hearts and minds. She emphasizes the importance of grassroots efforts and finding influential community leaders to amplify a message.
"in some way. Tell me about how your study of insurgency influenced the way that you see these dynamics. Yeah. This is what I studied in grad school. In an alternate life, I would've gone into this fie..."
Christianity as a Model for Messaging
Lulu explores Christianity's success as a messaging framework, highlighting its compelling narrative structure. She argues that companies can learn from this model to create impactful stories that resonate with audiences.
"a direct threat to them and an opposition to what they want, whether that's the government, whether that's the media. And so I think there's a lot in common, especially for startups. Wow, that's reall..."
Distribution Channels: Quantity vs. Depth
In this segment, Lulu explores the trade-offs between reaching a large audience and creating deep connections. She contrasts traditional media appearances with platforms like Joe Rogan's podcast, emphasizing the need for communicators to choose their distribution strategies wisely based on their message's depth and audience engagement.
"one thing I've been thinking a lot about is sort of like the legibility of those. Mm-hmm. And like when someone comes out with a book, they'll go on C N B C or they'll be on C B Ss this morning. If yo..."
Crafting Effective Slogans
Lulu delves into the art of creating memorable slogans, using Jeff Bezos's 'Focus on the customer' as a case study. She discusses how repetition and layered meanings can enhance a slogan's impact, making it resonate deeply with audiences while embedding it into their identities.
"you're going to be along the spectrum. There are times when you're going to consciously say, I will appeal in a less meaningful way to a lot of people because the thing I need them to do or know is so..."
Behavioral Psychology in Communication
This segment highlights the intersection of behavioral psychology and communication strategies. Lulu shares insights from her experience in a behavioral psychology lab, discussing how framing messages can significantly influence audience perception and decision-making.
"Yeah. This relates to Christianity too. The 10 Commandments, uh, the Bible verses that everybody knows there are these certain shibolet that they do two things. One is they get, they get repeated over..."
David's Law: The Impact of Framing
Lulu introduces 'David's Law,' emphasizing how the framing of offers can alter perceptions and decisions. She illustrates this concept through examples of how different cultural contexts affect responses to offers, underscoring the importance of strategic communication in achieving desired outcomes.
"fact they asked, um, J F K speech writer after J F K had died, uh, if he had written that line and he said, ask, not really. Yeah. I'm not surprised. Tell me about behavioral psychology. Like I see th..."
Cultural Erogenous Zones: Crafting Messages
In this segment, Lulu introduces the concept of 'cultural erogenous zones,' explaining how communicators must shape their messages to resonate with existing cultural narratives. She emphasizes the need for a bridge or 'API' to connect new ideas with audiences' established beliefs.
"what has a very, very big impact is how you frame your offer. If you frame it as you are giving me something that's different from, if you frame it as you are taking something from the pot. So let's s..."
Gateway Drugs for New Ideas
Lulu discusses the importance of providing 'gateway drugs' for new ideas, using Kamala Harris's communication strategy as an example. She explains how to create connections between seemingly unrelated topics to engage audiences and encourage them to explore new concepts.
"Well, I think this, the art of writing is knowing where to accept the world as it is and where to push on the world in order to change it. And it's a subtle art, but I think that's a lot of what you'r..."
Writing Process: Embracing Drowsiness
Lulu shares her unique writing process, which involves jotting down ideas in a drowsy state before sleep. She explains how this method allows her to think outside the box and later refine her thoughts in the light of day, drawing inspiration from ancient Greek debate practices.
"Let's transition into your writing process. So I guess you write before bed brain's a little looser. What's going on there? I write when I'm about to fall asleep. By that, do you mean like the Salvado..."
The Art of Story Arc in Writing
In this segment, Lulu emphasizes the importance of story arc in her writing. She discusses how the structure of a piece can change its meaning and impact, sharing her approach to revising and refining her work to ensure a compelling narrative.
"idea. So I I, I do that. Um, before I go to sleep in my half awake fugue state, I jot down ideas that come to mind. I jot down words that might not make sense. It's a very easy way to think outside th..."
Overcoming Attachment to Sentences
Lulu reflects on the challenges of letting go of beloved sentences in her writing. She discusses her process of revising and the emotional struggle of detaching from specific phrases, highlighting the importance of clarity and coherence over attachment to individual words.
"You start making mistakes of omission instead of omission, which, especially if you're working at a startup, especially if you're trying to, um, advance some new idea, is much, much worse. And so I ha..."
Illusion of Transparency in Writing
Lulu explains the 'illusion of transparency' in writing, where a writer assumes the audience shares their knowledge. She discusses the importance of having a good editor to help identify gaps in logic and clarity, and how fresh eyes can improve the overall message.
"get lost to history. And you give yourself a few days distance and look at it again and you're like, yeah, it's an okay sentence. Talk about how you sort of avoid that. For me, I need to take a few da..."
Editing Insights from Personal Experience
Lulu shares her personal editing process, highlighting how her husband, who is also her editor, helps her refine her arguments. She discusses the challenges of presenting ideas clearly and the intimidation that comes with sharing work publicly.
"was just in your head. So it. Intuitively seems like the cure to the illusion of transparency is a good editor. So how do you work with editors, both with your personal writing and with your more prof..."
Defending Others vs. Yourself
In this segment, Lulu reflects on the dynamics of defending others compared to oneself. She explains how it feels more natural to advocate for someone else, as it allows for a stronger, more assertive defense without the baggage of self-interest.
"there. And so it might be like procrastination in the essay itself. Talk about Twitter as a medium. You're so good at using it. Like you just, your writing just like can pierce through the waves of Tw..."
Writing for a Young Audience
Lulu discusses her approach to writing as if for a five-year-old, emphasizing the need for clarity and simplicity. She explains how this method helps avoid jargon and ensures that the message is accessible to all readers.
"That's really interesting. I think it's just a, a, a basic truth that if you are defending yourself, you, you're, everyone assumes you're gonna be defensive. You have your self-interest, but if somebo..."
Simplicity in Brand Writing
Lulu argues that brands should also prioritize clear and simple writing. She believes that while complex words can be impactful, the primary goal should be to communicate effectively without distracting from the message.
"when you're writing from a brand standpoint, is that simple sentence and short word is that? Similar or do you feel like with a brand you want to be different? Like how do you think about the division..."
The Challenge of Style in Writing
In this segment, Lulu reflects on her struggle with writing style, admitting that she sometimes tries to emulate famous writers. She acknowledges the importance of being intelligible over clever and how Twitter serves as a tool to refine her writing.
"feel like you're working on in your writing? In my writing, I get wordy. I, I can over explain. Um, and the temptation is to try to get clever. Like I try to write like I'm Hunter SS Thompson or Matt ..."
Growth Tactics for Online Creators
Lulu shares effective growth tactics for online creators, emphasizing the importance of consistency and engagement on platforms like Twitter. She discusses how frequent tweeting can lead to increased visibility and audience engagement.
"paste it into the email. I do that all the time, so if I'm writing something and it just feels wordy, fire up the little blue bird and I'll just play around with it and get it right. And then it'll al..."
Quality Over Quantity in Audience Building
Lulu reflects on her experience with audience building, stressing the importance of quality over quantity. She shares insights on how a smaller, engaged audience can be more valuable than a larger, disengaged one.
"quality of people that, that you can reach. Jesus could have had 12,000 disciples if he wanted to. He could have had 12,000, 1200. But sometimes you decide this is your core audience, and I want them ..."
Unique Writing Styles and Perspectives
In this segment, Lulu discusses the significance of having a unique writing style or perspective. She highlights examples of writers who stand out in their fields and the impact of originality on audience engagement.
"because those people will forward the emails, they'll tell others about you, as opposed to, it's a bigger list, but nobody actually reads this stuff. The point is to be read. What did you notice about..."
Learning English and Writing Challenges
Lulu shares her journey of learning English and the challenges she faced in writing professionally. She discusses the nuances of language and how her background influences her writing style and sensitivity to misinterpretation.
"fandom. One thing that is just wild to me is that you've done all this and English isn't even your first language. How did you learn to speak English, let alone write professionally? I had a bit of an..."
Improving Writing Through Diverse Reading
Lulu explains her strategy for improving her writing by reading materials outside of her field. She believes that exposure to different genres and styles can enhance her communication skills and broaden her perspective.
"without, um, too many of the englishs that only a native speaker would know. It's, it's like a different kind of jargon almost. What kinds of things do you read in order to improve your craft? I try t..."
Taking Risks in Writing
Lulu discusses the necessity of taking risks in writing and how it parallels risk management in leadership. She encourages writers to embrace failure as part of the creative process, arguing that avoiding risks leads to stagnation. This segment highlights the importance of growth through experimentation in writing.
"But agility, uh, taking responsibility, taking risks, it even talks about how to manage risks, which is you wanna take risk, but how to do it responsibly. And if you're gonna encourage your people to ..."
Gates of Fire: Lessons in Leadership
Lulu shares insights from the book 'Gates of Fire' by Stephen Pressfield, which details the Battle of Thermopylae. She discusses the themes of leadership and the human experience in battle, illustrating how powerful storytelling can resonate with readers. This segment emphasizes the impact of narrative in both writing and communication.
"but you'll be on a secular trajectory upwards. Talk to me about Gates of Fire by Stephen Pressfield. It's so good. Yeah. Have you read it? No. It's about the Battle of Thermoy, the 300 Spartans, but i..."
The Challenge of Authenticity in Writing
Lulu reflects on the struggle many writers face in maintaining their authentic voice when under pressure. She discusses how external expectations can stifle creativity and the importance of staying true to oneself. This segment addresses the psychological barriers that can hinder effective communication.
"sentences, you don't forget. When I talk to my writing students, like one thing that they just so struggle with is, especially the older ones, it's just like they lose their sense of humanity. And I f..."
The Value of Diverse Perspectives
In this segment, Lulu talks about the benefits of incorporating diverse perspectives into writing. She explains how her background in geopolitics informs her communication style and encourages writers to draw from their unique experiences. This highlights the importance of varied viewpoints in crafting compelling narratives.
"did something entirely different that they can now come and, um, start fresh without knowing what they're supposed to be doing. That's good. 'cause sometimes experience can be a shackle. Sometimes exp..."
Writer Brain vs. Friend Brain
Lulu introduces the concept of 'writer brain' versus 'friend brain,' explaining how the pressure to perform can affect writing quality. She suggests reading drafts to friends or family to regain authenticity and avoid robotic writing. This segment emphasizes the importance of maintaining a personal touch in professional communication.
"I call writer brain and friend brain. So writer brain is this, this mode that you're in, where you're trying to perform and you're trying to almost. Present to a discerning audience, but when you're w..."
Geopolitical Insights in Communication
Lulu discusses how her experience in geopolitics shapes her writing and communication strategies. She emphasizes the need to consider cultural and language barriers when crafting messages, showcasing how a broader understanding can enhance clarity and effectiveness in corporate communications.
"humanity that you need. Tell me about dc You have this DC background and then you sort of move into tech a little bit more. And how did DC shape your, your writing and how you, how you communicate? I ..."
The Art of Storytelling in Communication
In this segment, Lulu explores the significance of storytelling in effective communication. She argues that stories resonate more than statistics, highlighting the need for compelling narratives in corporate messaging. This segment underscores the power of storytelling in engaging audiences and conveying complex ideas.
"ways. This just happens to be mine. Wait, that's really interesting. Let's go through these different lenses of writing and I want to see where we end up. The lens that I wish I had would be a more li..."
Framing and Narrative Control
Lulu explains the concept of framing in communication, emphasizing that the party who sets the narrative holds the power. She discusses how to maintain control over messaging and the importance of proactive communication strategies. This segment highlights the strategic aspects of corporate communications.
"I mean, I would give you another definition, which is the definition that you gave earlier, that we all have these holes in our minds and stories are the things that. Match up most with the holes so t..."
Growing Through Effective Communication
Lulu outlines strategies for using communication to grow a brand or initiative. She emphasizes the importance of understanding business objectives and audience needs in crafting messages that resonate. This segment provides actionable insights for leveraging communication to achieve growth.
"you're always losing. How much do you think about framing in terms of the narratives? Because that's the other thing, right? Once the accuser has the frame, so once you're responding, you've lost the ..."
Meeting Your Audience Where They Are
Lulu highlights the significance of distribution channels in reaching your audience effectively. She advises identifying where your target audience already engages and suggests leveraging existing podcasts and platforms to introduce your message, enhancing visibility and engagement.
"this on the blockchain. And most people are like, I don't care if it's on the blockchain. I don't care if it's web three. Is it gonna make my banking easier? How do I use this thing? And I'm a little ..."
Building Community Through Shared Identity
Lulu discusses the importance of community in fostering a sense of identity among writers. She draws parallels with K-Pop fandoms, explaining how shared interests can enhance engagement and loyalty, making it essential to cultivate a supportive community around your message.
"needed, with the messenger. So to zoom in on that, the mediums of distribution for you, for example, there are going to be other podcasts that your audience listen to where you can just show up to tha..."
The Challenge of Simplifying Complex Ideas
In this segment, Lulu reflects on the difficulty of communicating complex ideas clearly. She explains that the more knowledgeable you are, the harder it is to distill your message to what others care about, emphasizing the need to focus on the audience's perspective.
"opposed to asking for something. Sure. If you need to ask for something, you can, but ideally you go and offer them something. So what I would do is find who posts the podcast, whose listeners you wan..."
Lessons from Bitcoin and Identity
Lulu draws insights from Bitcoin's decentralized nature, highlighting how its community-driven identity shapes perceptions. She discusses the importance of aligning your messaging with the aspirations of your audience, encouraging them to identify with your brand.
"And obviously it has to be real. It can't just be, here's what they want, so I'm gonna become that thing. It has to be, here's what they want, here's what I am. And then find the overlap in the Venn d..."
Avoiding the Trap of Technology Over Benefits
Lulu warns against focusing too much on technology rather than the benefits it provides. She critiques the crypto industry's tendency to emphasize its technological aspects instead of addressing how it improves users' lives, urging communicators to prioritize practical value.
"Yeah. Uh, and community too. Yeah. And two, and, and community makes identity more sticky. This is the one thing I learned from K-Pop fandoms, which is that you become more of a fan if you wanna fit i..."
The Thrill of Writing as a Discipline
Lulu shares her passion for writing, describing it as a complex discipline that combines various fields. She finds excitement in the challenge of crafting messages that resonate and the potential impact of effective communication, highlighting the stakes involved in corporate communications.
"anybody. Um, the way it would look for you is to make sure that you're, you're less like, here's the next step in my entrepreneurial journey. I'm excited that I've gotten to launch this thing because ..."