"we have this mental metaphor that we talk a lot about getting to the next Hill the actual wording is take bigger Bolder bets I think teams can often get lost crawling up that hill not realizing that t..."

"welcome to Lenny's podcast where I interview world-class product leaders and growth experts to learn from their hard-win experiences building and growing today's most successful products today my gues..."

"Weiss after a short word from our sponsors this episode is brought to you by sidebar are you looking to land your next big career move or start your own thing one of the most effective ways to create ..."

"emotion sleep and everything else you know I literally went back to work two days ago so I think my maybe advice about being a new parents is better than my advice whether being in PM right now here a..."

"never going to work out and I know they went in direction of B2B data sort of business so I guess was there was there a path or was it just like no that was never going to work out it's true I mean I'..."

"you're joining a company and the CEO does the role that is your functional area of expertise it's probably the area where you'll learn the most because they're hopefully world class at it but also whe..."

"think that kind of formula winds up working pretty well if you throw in that kind of alignment on principles and envision that u-shape sounds nice in theory but I often imagine you get to that final s..."

"Collective way so it doesn't just feel like the team says we want to ship and the founder says no it's not ready ideally as a group you're saying we want to get it to a bar that's in the light our use..."

"a little bigger there's a famous uh user design book called Don't Make Me Think which we sold the title of for our next principle and that's really just about as people building the software you know ..."

"shifting a little bit I know you guys have been working on a bunch of AI stuff at slack and I believe you've been working on AI related stuff for for many years I think I Google you worked on a lot of..."

"what are the tallest mountains in Europe or one of the most popular beaches in Southern California and be able to actually give answers not just 10 Blue Links I think the thing that's really changing ..."

"that would be Netflix back I mean they have their reading system they actually had a feedback loop from their customers that make the system better at predicting and I think people are still trying to..."

"CPO and CTO and co-president of Spotify share that they always have a deck and a vision of just like a play button within Spotify you just play and all magic happens and it's the best music and thing ..."

"their stuff better or are you dedicating here's the AI team and they're going to work on stuff and you guys just keep shipping with your shipping and keep moving your metrics meet on Fair answer is a ..."

"internally called complaint storms and I'd love to understand what that is if something started I want to say back in 20 in the 2019 maybe early 2020 and the idea a little bit was how do we help as a ..."

"it's similar to a process that I learned stripe has called friction logging but I love I love the Nuance here of starting with someone else's product because I could totally see how that makes you fee..."

"I love that and how often do you do these sorts of customer love Sprints I would say teams that work with very user-facing products do it at least once a quarter so I think other teams I work on maybe..."

"speaking of competition something I wanted to ask you a bit about so early on slack was competing against this product called hipchat and that was actually what I used at our startup and we loved hip ..."

"years go by so slack is kind of a big-ish company within now or let's say a big company but it feels like you still are launching really interesting stuff you launch huddles uh Clips there's this AI s..."

"strategically and then it can structurally the way we've approached it is that we've over time created kind of new teams from scratch that YouTube made in a new area before the areas mature so we did ..."

"people away that that's kind of the formula that we've seen this episode is brought to you by vanta helping you streamline your security compliance to accelerate your growth thousands of fast-growing ..."

"external stakeholders over 5 000 best scoring companies use van to automate up to 90 of the work involved with stock 2 and these other Frameworks for a limited time Lenny's podcast listeners get one t..."

"and not thinking too seriously but keeping that sense of you know I think that the distance you have from your user that's your user base gets more and more diverse and larger I think it kind of make ..."

"having the PMS into years designers and the user researcher all in one slack thread like live responding reacting to usability session and then suddenly that thread becomes actually the best kind of s..."

"and it wasn't clear why I'm curious just what that period was like and how did you kind of get to the bottom of what was going on and turn things around yeah it was actually a couple years after I joi..."

"continue to try to optimize the things that had worked over the last couple years we said okay let's kind of throw the whole roadmap away and instead let's come up with a bunch of hypotheses about wha..."

"like hey you know what I want to do today is start using entirely new tool and convince all my co-workers to get on board that is not like part of your job your job has goals and measurements and ever..."

"here one is just the importance of an activation metric that is predictive of retention so it sounds like you landed on five people in a company like Dau basically for a week something like that that'..."

"I think of like product Market fit is almost like you keep stacking these S curves where you get product Market fit in a small group and then you suddenly reach like exponential growth because you can..."

"if you think about the pie chart of what you have to change to make it work how much of it was like messaging positioning onboarding optimization versus like product features let's say maybe 60 40 in ..."

"product Investments that we wanted making so that that next generation of slack customers could get value and not be overwhelmed or daunted by it maybe one last question along these lines people look ..."

"I think slack was able to crack both one is when your team is small and your company is small it is the entire company if you're an SMB and I think that's almost like slack sweet spot when the origina..."

"that was where it started the way you described at the beginning of make a product that people want to share with their colleagues reminds me of a I was just listening to an interview with Seth Godin ..."

"there are categories of Enterprise offer that isn't true for like insecurity or but even that I think yeah like I think they if it's an awesome security product you're like hey you got to check out th..."

"think would be interesting to share in terms of what makes it a successful product team product business before I move on to another topic the only thing I think is maybe a little bit interesting in t..."

"interesting any tips for how to choose who to include in this group if someone wants to build something like this for themselves I think the two most important things are you want a lot of diversity i..."

"all right I'm gonna shift to a totally different topic which could also be its own whole podcast but let's just see how it goes see you at this I'd say famous blog post on product management called th..."

"interview for but I think it's the actual job of chronograph what is it about what does success look like and I don't think they're really in a particular order in hindsight but um live in the future ..."

"and then Paul Graham talks about this too right just like live in the future and build it I I definitely riffed off at least the Paul Graham thing because I remember reading an essay of he thinks you ..."

"Jessica always said too just like how do we 10x this what would it take the 10x this idea yeah so awesome okay okay uh the second one which is maybe obvious but thinking about how to actually amplify ..."

"without you kind of arbitrarily playing tie breaker all the time and it's like it's a soft art to be able to do that but I think that is actually how you have a really healthy team Dynamic instead of ..."

"love that I always recommend exactly that if like if your career is not going as well as you'd hoped or you're not getting promoted it's usually you're not delivering impact whatever that means to the..."

"that yeah Ben Horowitz was a board member back at Foursquare and I I still remember you used to have this saying it's very you to like of you know good leaders need to say what they're going to do and..."

"chapter is just another way to cut more from your writing like more and more Parts you should cut and interestingly I do have a lot of guest posts in my newsletter and I find 90 of the time if I just ..."

"in the long term it's a portfolio approach it's a product but I think a really important one I was just interviewing a product leader at Asana Paige Costello and we were talking about how she's often ..."

"pretty powerful combo let me ask you just a couple questions about this list before we get to a very exciting lightning round and I can let you go okay of these 10 attributes say your new product mana..."

"and how to develop products at a company well with that we've reached our very exciting lightning round I've got six"

"exciting lightning round I've got six questions for you are you ready let's do it what are two or three books that you've recommended most to other people these are may not be the most unique but I wi..."

"and then the third one which is maybe a little off the beaten path there's a book called leadership in turbulent Times by Doris Goodwin who's a kind of presidential historian and it's this amazing boo..."

"obvious answer which I'm sure many people would say would be succession I'm not going to ruin anything for the finale in case people haven't seen it all but they're writing the Shakespearean level dra..."

"of a product to you it might say unfair are you in secret I usually mean like not something that you probably read on like I mean what did you learn how did you learn it and how does it work and how d..."

"I have all three also a huge shout out to the Nana team who sent me a nanet and all the stuff around the nanet uh so thank you I'm not gonna name the specific PM who sent it to me because I don't reme..."

"advice we got on this podcast two more questions what is something relatively minor you've changed in how you develop product at slack that has had a lot of impact on your ability to execute by far th..."

"well how does this Opera feel that's what matters speaking of slack final question what is your favorite slack Pro tip that people may not be aware of I'm going to give two because if someone asked me..."

"no I know the last thing you needed was to record a podcast your first week back to work I so appreciate you making the time it feels like we're two ships passing in the night from Pat leave and to ne..."