
17 segments available
Tobi Lütke (Shopify Founder & CEO), Kaz Nejatian (Shopify COO), and Balaji review how Shopify rose from tiny startup to $180B+ global economy, with an annual GMV on par with the GDP of New Zealand. In the process they touch on Hayek, the Hanseatic League, merchant cavemen, the history of the corporation, and the optimal level of platform decentralization. OUTLINE 0:00 - Introduction 2:39 - Shopify has the scale of a small country 8:49 - Lifestyle businesses take up your whole life 20:52 - SMBs can be harder than startups 27:13 - Shopify could invest in its merchants 32:23 - Shopify's economy is on par with Greece or New Zealand 38:40 - Money, time, risk, attention 39:55 - Is all retail a form of arbitrage? 47:14 - The history of the corporation informs the development of smart contracts 56:57 - Founders start as lead engineer, end up as chief psychiatrist 1:00:27 - Shopify is not just technology but community 1:06:26 - The concept of computational context 1:14:34 - Shopify as a dashboard for the global economy 1:22:48 - Atoms are so much more complex than bits 1:28:41 - Balancing centralized vs decentralized at Shopify 1:43:26 - If they could start a new country, what would Tobi and Kaz build? 2:03:28 - Kaz on working at Shopify 2:04:31 - Tobi's parting thoughts LINKS 1) 100 true fans: https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/ 2) Gobekli Tepe: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/gobekli-tepe-the-worlds-first-temple-83613665/ 3) Shopify active merchant: https://github.com/activemerchant/active_merchant 4) Fall of Civilizations: https://www.youtube.com/@FallofCivilizations 5) Founding vs Inheriting: https://thenetworkstate.com/founding-vs-inheriting 6) Shopify careers: https://www.shopify.com/careers AUDIO 1) Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-network-state-podcast/id1594687786 2) Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/10yi2HXcA1Pepe9qEtGJCI CREDITS Editing: https://twitter.com/DholakiaJaydeep Images: https://twitter.com/elijah10t SOCIAL https://twitter.com/tobi https://twitter.com/CanadaKaz https://twitter.com/balajis https://thenetworkstate.com
Tobi Lütke and Kaz Nejatian discuss how Shopify has evolved into a massive economy comparable to small countries like Greece and New Zealand. They explore the management challenges and technical innovations that have enabled Shopify to reach this scale, and ponder what kind of small country they would build if given the chance.
"this is the network State podcast and I'm here today with Toby lucky and kazden jadian the CEO and CEO of Shopify one of Canada's largest companies Shopify is internal economy is actually on the scale..."
Kaz Nejatian shares insights on the misconception of lifestyle businesses, emphasizing that running a small business often consumes one's entire life. He contrasts the challenges faced by small business owners with those of larger corporations, highlighting the lack of support and resources available to them.
"and so just like you know the scale of the Shopify economy there's millions of merchants billions of dollars built from scratch um their stats and your SEC filings or stats on your website millions of..."
Tobi Lütke discusses the unique challenges that small and medium-sized businesses (SMBs) face compared to startups. He explains how SMBs often encounter more difficulties due to their reliance on individual founders and the complexities of maintaining continuity in business operations.
"are maybe the experts and there's a question I've always wanted to ask is you know there's this concept of a so-called lifestyle business right where you know it's not really swinging for the fences y..."
The conversation shifts to how Shopify could further invest in its merchants. Tobi and Kaz explore the potential benefits of supporting their merchants more directly, enhancing the overall ecosystem and fostering growth within the Shopify community.
"think by the way on the lifestyle thing uh, I, agree, with, you, by, the, way the lifestyle term is patronizing uh you know here is kind of a cut that I've seen before on like startup versus SMB uh we..."
Tobi Lütke reveals that Shopify's economy is comparable to the GDP of Greece or New Zealand, discussing the implications of this scale. He highlights the collective revenue generated by Shopify merchants and the significant employment opportunities created within the ecosystem.
"check but it's other Shopify Merchants that are funding it right because the way it works is Shopify which have paid us we take that money and put it back in the economy yeah well it's what's interest..."
Kaz Nejatian delves into the relationship between money, time, risk, and attention in the context of entrepreneurship. He emphasizes the importance of managing these factors effectively to ensure the success of small businesses and the Shopify platform.
"about the scale of Shopify economy we made the point that Shopify is on par with a small country you know stats you mentioned you have your Merchants have five million employees Shopify a 650k develop..."
The discussion touches on the concept of retail as a form of arbitrage. Tobi and Kaz explore how retail businesses can leverage market inefficiencies to create value, and the implications this has for entrepreneurs operating within the Shopify ecosystem.
"of interesting I I have a few actually remarks have one and let me jump to the next one um first on the attention point it's interesting you know lots of folks have talked, about this, Elan, has, talk..."
Tobi Lütke reflects on the historical evolution of corporations and how it informs the development of smart contracts. He discusses the relevance of historical business practices in shaping modern entrepreneurial frameworks and the future of commerce.
"Shopify store but a um a retail outlet offline what you're doing is essentially Arbitrage you are um guessing that uh the water bottles that you buy wholesale from the manufacturer you will be able to..."
Kaz Nejatian shares insights on the evolving role of founders, who often start as lead engineers but end up taking on more psychological and managerial responsibilities. He discusses the emotional and mental challenges faced by entrepreneurs as they scale their businesses.
"previous point that you made uh where you said actually that it was very boring the history of the corporation actually has I actually think all that stuff is very applied right now you know why why b..."
Tobi Lütke emphasizes that Shopify is not just a technology platform but a thriving community. He discusses the importance of fostering connections among merchants and the role of community in driving Shopify's success.
"said why is it that all founders at a certain point they all become like philosophers and they post stoic stuff and Marcus so all this type of stuff and I actually had an explanation for that which is..."
The conversation shifts to the concept of computational context and its significance in modern business practices. Tobi and Kaz explore how understanding this concept can enhance decision-making and operational efficiency within the Shopify ecosystem.
"just want to come back to for a second and, move, on, is, the, um the, part, about, the Arbitrage point and the community point they're actually kind of related where you know how much of selling is j..."
Tobi Lütke discusses how Shopify functions as a dashboard for the global economy, providing insights into market trends and consumer behavior. He highlights the platform's role in facilitating commerce on a global scale.
"actually a really good Insight that communication is risen and then necessarily average context has dropped and it's like if you ever have a tweet that starts going really viral it goes outside of tho..."
Kaz Nejatian contrasts the complexity of physical goods (atoms) with digital products (bits). He discusses the implications of this distinction for entrepreneurs and the challenges they face in navigating both realms.
"basically the scale of Shopify economy we cover the point that you've built something literally on par within not so small country you know your gmv annualizes on probably like Greece or New Zealand's..."
Tobi Lütke explores the balance between centralized and decentralized approaches at Shopify. He discusses the importance of finding the right equilibrium to foster innovation while maintaining operational efficiency.
"closer to a real world than most than much of the technology World honestly because we deal with this very real thing it's Commerce inventory yeah inventory and shipments and like this is like a real ..."
In a thought-provoking segment, Tobi and Kaz discuss what they would build if they could start a new country. They explore the principles and values that would guide their vision for a new society.
"thing that's kind of related to sort of managing an economy level thing is you've you've had a great balance of the centralized and decentralized now often these are just just to kind of motivate the ..."
Kaz Nejatian shares his personal journey and experiences working at Shopify. He reflects on the challenges and rewards of being part of a rapidly growing company and the impact it has had on his career.
"know we've basically talked about how you guys have managed and built something that is on the scale of a small country economically um what if you could start a new country a small country right um y..."
Tobi Lütke concludes the podcast with his final thoughts on entrepreneurship, community, and the future of Shopify. He emphasizes the importance of resilience and innovation in navigating the ever-changing landscape of business.
"you're good at joining out one-on-ones you should just put you in a career's page it's perfect I I I definitely want to talk to you guys about Shopify Trends a very interested that okay guys I think w..."