"the competence and capability and intelligence and training and accomplishments of senior scientists and technologists working on a technology and then being able to then make moral judgments on the u..."

"Mark andreon I think you're the right person to talk about the future of the internet and technology in general uh do you think we'll still have Google search in five and 10 years or search in general..."

"that human civilization uses to interact with knowledge I mean search was a technology it was a moment in time technology which is you have in theory the world's information out on the web and you kno..."

"just you maybe for you know maybe within AI one of one of the things that AI can do for you is can generate the 10 Blue Links right like and so like if either if that's actually the useful thing to do..."

"kind of interface that uh the crude kind of interface I mean isn't that fundamentally different I just mean like if you're reading a scientific paper it's got the list of sources at the end if you wan..."

"of my bullshit right now okay well I mean isn't that is that exciting to you is that terrifying that I mean search has dominated the way we interact with the internet for I don't know how long for 30 ..."

"more broadly no just just in the sense of like search was look search was always a the 10 Blue Links was always a hack yeah right because like if the the hypothet you want think about the counter faci..."

"were trying to basically Implement that and it was you know it was one of those things where it looked like a losing battle for a long time and then Google bought it and it was like wow this is actual..."

"word of questions and it the neural network will do a different kind of you know it'll search down different paths to give you different answers with different information yeah um and so it it it sort..."

"jailbreak and then you have these totally different conversations with the it takes the limiters the takes the restraining bolts off the off the LMS yeah for people who don't know yeah that's right it..."

"agree but it doesn't have to be like that and you because you can add to the prompt um we I do not want the I do not want the conversation to come to agreement in fact I want it to get you know more s..."

"of continuous prompts and basically okay argue that out in more detail okay no this this argument is becoming too polite you know make it more you know make it tenser um and yeah it's thrilled to do i..."

"like none of that is there she's kind of like here's here's what we know but you don't know if some of those things are kind of just straight up made up yeah so so several layers to the question so on..."

"though it's interesting so we had this conversation where you know we're looking at my firm at Ai and lots of domains and one of them is the legal domain so we had this this conversation with this big..."

"be more Shades of Gray in here than people think um and then I I just add to that you know another one of these trillion dollar kind of questions is ultimately you know ver sort of the verification th..."

"deterministically correct right so you cannot take to the bank right every single thing on every single page but it is probabilistically correct right and specifically the way I describe wi compedia t..."

"how rapidly you can create narratives and just as the entirety of a society just move like crowds in a hysterical way along those narratives that don't have necessary grounding in whatever the truth i..."

"and observation and experimentation and hypothesis and you know we need to continue to embrace those even when they give us answers we don't like sure but the internet and technology has enabled us to..."

"especially that involves like human nature things like this not physics here's a question a friend of mine just asked me on this topic so suppose you had llms in equivalent of GPT 4 even 5 six S8 supp..."

"a story in the right now and they say you know XYZ made a baseless claim about some topic right and there's one group of people who were like aha thank you know they're doing factchecking there's anot..."

"the counterfactual in these things which is like okay because these questions right this question heads towards it's like okay the impact of social media and the undermining of Truth and all this but ..."

"be just because it's all so I mean just look at what's happening today I mean just I mean the most obvious thing is just the the collapse and here's another opportunity to argue that this is not the i..."

"said media before isn't the llm going to be the new what is it mainstream media MSM it'll be llm uh yes that would be the source of uh I'm sure there's a way to kind of rapidly find tun like making ll..."

"stuff what to say in a job interview yeah what to say ex what to say next sentence yeah next sentence yeah at that level yeah I mean yes so technically now whether we want that or not is an open quest..."

"completely doable scenario now the hard question on these is always okay since that's possible are people going to want that like what's the form of experience mhm you know that that we we won't know ..."

"so you know there will be you know just like there's like you know whatever three big Banks or three big you or by the way three big search companies or I guess two know you know it it'll centralize l..."

"more like a world of like what we have today with like Linux and the web um so okay but uh you you painted these two worlds but there's also uh variations of those worlds cuz you said regulatory captu..."

"something totally new do you think it's possible or do you think it'll come from a startup yeah it is this always big question which is you get this feeling I hear about this a lot from CEOs found fou..."

"variety of reasons they didn't do it this is like a classic big company thing um IBM invented the relational database in 19 in the 1970s let it sit on the Shelf as a paper Larry Ellison picked it up a..."

"companies are waking up to this they have the compute but also the little guys have uh it feels like they have all the tools to create the killer product that uh and then there's also tools to scale i..."

"there's like a GPU shortage startups are literally stalled out right now because they can't get chips which is like super weird yeah um they got the cloud yeah but the clouds run out of chips um right..."

"think the browser changes and who gets to own the browser we got to see some very interesting browsers uh Firefox I mean all the variants of Microsoft Internet Explorer Edge and uh now Chrome um the a..."

"magic button U which is implemented in they put in Google Docs right and so you go to you know Google Docs and you create a new document and you you know you instead of like you know starting to type ..."

"by creating content who are the content creators uh all of that or it could just keep being the same which is like with just the nature of web pages changes and the nature of content but there will st..."

"still works right that like that still works exactly as I just described so this is part of my reaction to all of this like you know all this just censorship pressure and all this you know these issue..."

"to get it up and running before anybody notices um you and I are both fans of History so let's step back we've been talking about the future let's step back for a bit and look at uh the 9s you created..."

"think that I had something to do with that did you make it on the website I have I don't think I made it on the website but I you know hopefully somebody needs to add this is this is where everything ..."

"the Aesthetics were a little disappointing but you know it was the the vector uh right of the of the creation of a lot of a lot of this stuff um yeah so so then basically by so part part part of my st..."

"connection which at the time was you know wildly state-of-the-art um we had cray supercomputers we had thinking machines parallel supercomputers we had silicon Graphics workstations we had macintosh's..."

"that sense as well like what what you said the the back of your head was tickled like what what was your what what was exciting to you about this possible World well if this if this is so useful in th..."

"form U and by the way text only at that point what did it look like what what was the we I mean and the key figures like what was the what was it like what a picture it looked like Chad GPT actually u..."

"unusable they were so slow but they were beautiful okay can we actually just take a tiny tangent there sure of course the the 12 x 12 x 12 uh they just so beautifully encapsulates Steve Jobs idea of d..."

"you're having an on interaction with somebody there's an aesthetic I would say calm that comes over you because you're actually being fully honest and trying to hide yourself right so there so so it's..."

"you know you know this he thought very deeply about what it meant for something to be in your hand all day long yeah well for example he a a here's an interesting design thing like he he never wanted ..."

"had the correct functionality that had the deepest understanding of the user that was the most beautiful right like it had to be all of those things right it was he basically would drive to his close ..."

"best work of Our Lives when we worked for him because he set the bar incredibly high and then he supported us with everything that he could to let us actually do work of that quality so a lot of peopl..."

"because it was all text there were no documents there no images there no videos there were no right so so it was it was and then if if in the beginning if you had to be on a next Cube you need to had ..."

"actually having a graphical user interface to right at all much less one to the internet how how old did Windows 3 sell so was that the really big that was the big Bank the big operating graphical ope..."

"then we were off Off to the Races CU nobody could have known what would be created from that well Windows 3.1 or 3.0 Windows 3.0 to the iPhone was only 15 years right like it that ramp was in retrospe..."

"uh good good call and early days yes it's so interesting I'm looking for my about about oh Mark is looking for a job yeah um so um wow so the West new page I would literally get up every morning and I..."

"first web uh the first streaming video thing was a uh it was it was another England thing some Oxford or something um some guy uh put uh his coffee pot up as the first uh streaming uh uh video thing a..."

"a wall of skepticism from the media like they just like everybody was just like yeah this is the C this is just like dumb this is not you know this is not for regular people at that time um and so you..."

"are are going to get fixed some people say that the anticipation makes the the destination that much more exciting do you remember Progressive jpegs yeah do I do I so for k for kids in the audience ri..."

"basically going to bring in all the trivial stuff you're going to bring in magazines and you know all this crazy just you know stuff that you know people you know it's going to distract from it's goin..."

"available to Ordinary People and at that time strong encryption was actually illegal to export out of the us so we could feel that product in the US we could not export it because it was it was classi..."

"hasn't really existed before that can have such uh almost like Limitless uh impact on the world with the internet so there was a really key bet that we made at the time which is very controversial whi..."

"breakthrough was the view Source function right so the fact that you could look at a web page you could hit view source and you could see the HTML that was how people learned how to make web pages rig..."

"but you know programming you know C++ C C++ all those languages lisp the compil languages the interpreted languages python Pearl all that they the brace have to be all correct like everything has to b..."

"perfection yeah and I was just like that's just that's just bad and by the way you know what happens with that just what what happened with with coding at that point which is you get a high priesthood..."

"standards is there standards at that time there really still isn't well there's like there's implied implied standards right and they you there's are all these kinds of new features that are being add..."

"like the purple links there were some interesting design decisions that to kind of come up that uh we have today or we don't have today that were temporary so uh we made I made the background great I ..."

"seems to only be gaining in in um in its uh in its range of adoption you in the software world there's quite a few stories of somebody over a weekend or over a week or over a summer writing some of th..."

"hope about the open source movement in this new age of AI where um you just recently having had a conversation with with Mark Zuckerberg of all people who's all in on open source which is so interesti..."

"interesting we'll we'll talk about it but let's just to linger a little bit on Netscape Netscape was was acquired in 1999 for 4.3 billion by AOL what was that uh what was that like what was what were ..."

"depression in the 2000s was the beginning of broadband and smartphones and Web 2.0 right and then social media and search and every SAS and everything that came out of that so what did you learn from ..."

"right um and so that that that's there are many things that make software magical and special but that's the economics I wonder what Marx would have thought about that oh he would have completely brok..."

"four five six decades to come um you know if you have a team of people who have the level of devotion required to keep making it better and then the fact that of course everybody's online you know the..."

"human quality of life whether it's education outcomes or success of your children or Career Success or health or lifetime satisfaction um by the way um uh uh propensity to peacefulness as opposed to v..."

"intelligence then uh it's only going to make a better life yeah that's the argument and certainly at the collective level we could talk about the collective effect of just having more intelligence in ..."

"a lever on this single fundamental factor of intelligence which is the thing that drives so much of everything else can you still man the case that human plus AI is not always better than human for th..."

"extrapolate from what we know about human intelligence you're you're improving so many aspects of life if you're upgrading intelligence so there'll be assistance at all stages of life so when you're y..."

"of all because this is the one that that goes directly to what what they call fluid intelligence mhm which is IQ well there's uh two categories of folks that you outline that uh that worry about or hi..."

"um from what's called development economics and it's this observation that when you get social reform movements um in a society um you tend to get two sets of people showing up arguing for the social ..."

"this is bad stuff and we should Outlaw it and and those were quite literally Baptists those were super committed you know hardcore Christian activists in a lot of cases there was this woman uh whose n..."

"money if legal alcohol sales were banned um and this was in fact the way the history goes is this was actually the beginning of organized crime in the US this was the big Economic Opportunity that ope..."

"suggesting that uh the development of artificial intelligence should be regulated 100% yeah it's the same pattern the economists will tell you it's the same pattern every time like this is what happen..."

"AI what's intell I know what AI is AI is machine learning what's what's AGI I think we don't know what the bottom of the well of machine learning is or what the ceiling is cuz just uh to call somethin..."

"um apocalypse Cults well so we live in we of course live in a judeo-christian but primarily Christian kind of saturated you know kind of Christian post-christian secularized Christian you know kind of..."

"people who are either going to stop it or are failing stopping it they're going to be the people who survived to the other side and ultimately get credit for having been right why is that so compellin..."

"at the history of of millenarian Cults this is where you get the people's Temple and everybody killing themselves in the jungle and this is where you get Charles Manson and you know sending in to kill..."

"is like really concerning okay but that's kind of the extremes you know the extremes of anything are always concerning it's also possible to kind of believe that AI has a very high likelihood of killi..."

"you know you biological weapons nuclear weapons like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa this is like serious stuff we should be careful so it is possible to kind of have a more rational response right if you be..."

"went through this with Co yeah what do we know about modeling well I mean what do we learn about modeling with co uh there's a lot of lessons they didn't work at all they worked poorly the models were..."

"bars and the models and all that kind of stuff what you had with Co my my view you had with Co is you had these experts showing up they claimed to be scientists and they had no testable hypothesis wha..."

"they're I mean not if they're reliably wrong right then they're actually like anti-us right they're actually damaging but what what do you do with a pandemic what do you do with a with a with any kind..."

"at fault this the quote unquote scientists showed up so I had some insight into this so there there was a remember the Imperial College models out of out of London were the ones that were like these a..."

"said it was like the worst spaghetti code he's ever seen that doesn't mean it's not possible to construct a good model of pandemic with a correct air bars with a high number of parameters that are con..."

"here's here's what's happening in terms of how quickly it's spreading what that lead in terms of hospitalization and deaths and all that kind of stuff here's How likely how contagious it likely is her..."

"because there's pandemics that are like uh meh they don't really do much harm and there's pandemics you can imagine them they could do a huge amount of harm like they can kill a lot of people so you s..."

"to models so to be useful at some point it has to be predictive right so and so and and so the easy thing for me to do is to say obviously you're right obviously I want to see that just as much as you..."

"don't know I I would like to believe that it is yeah put it this way I think where you and I would agree is I think we would like we would we' like that to be the case we are strongly in favor of it I..."

"the the the policy makers were not paying attention like U there was no mechanism that allowed those kinds of models to percolate up oh I think we had the opposite problem during Co I think the policy..."

"lockdowns for as long as we did was because these scientists came in with these like Doom State scenarios that were like just like completely off the hook scientists and quotes not quotequote scientis..."

"one humility goes back to this thing of how do we determine the truth number two is we don't believe you know it's the old I've got a hammer everything looks like a nail right um I've got oh this one ..."

"actually already have the kind of AI that can actually like think this through and can actually like you know reason about goals well the the hope is that AGI or like very super intelligent systems ha..."

"calibrated extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof well okay so one interesting sort of tangent I would love to take on this because he mentioned this in the essay about nuclear which was als..."

"considered perhaps of the because the Hang ringing is the father of the atomic bomb uh this is this is vanman criticism of him is he tried to have his cake and eat it too like he he wanted to and and ..."

"bomb Russia got the bomb they got the bomb through Espionage they got American and you know they got American scientists and foreign scientists working on the American project some combination of the ..."

"second half of the 20th century would have played out very different had those people not given Russia the bomb and so the stakes were very high then the good news today is nobody sitting here today I..."

"and destroyed an entire city yeah so 880,000 people dead but uh and look but I don't like the reporting of that you can report that in all kinds of way War you can you can do all kinds of Slants like ..."

"that didn't happen yeah actually just on that point you say a lot of really brilliant things it it it hit me just as you were saying it I don't know why it hit me for the first time but we got two War..."

"decision made by people who were very full of themselves yeah but so me as an America me as a person that loves America I also wonder if us was the only ones with the nuclear weapons uh that was the a..."

"yeah yes what annoyment yes because he said World War I is inevitable um he was very hardcore uh he he his his theory was um his theory was World War III is inevitable we're definitely going to have W..."

"person who are the right kinds of people to make decisions how to respond to it is it tech people so the history of these fields this is what he talks about in the book The History of these fields is ..."

"misinformation sure the AI ex risk people have now renamed their thing uh AI not kill everyone ISM which I have to admit is a catchy term and they are very frustrated by the fact that the hate the sor..."

"you commit literal violence yeah and there's a section later section of the essay where I talk about bad people doing bad things yes right which which and there's there's a set of things that we shoul..."

"kind of stuff three three-part argument on bad people doing bad things um so um uh so number one right you can use the technology defensively and there's a we should be using AI to build like broads S..."

"and like if China is developing an LM beyond the scale that we think is allowable are we going to invade right and you have figures on the ax risk side who are advocating any you know potentially up t..."

"powerful okay but that just speaks to the people that censor are usually the assholes and uh the assholes get richer I wonder if it's possible to do without that for AI one way to ask this question is..."

"source so what about open source and and my answer to your question is kind of like obviously yes the models have there has to be full open source here because to live in a world in which that open so..."

"available to everybody yeah right and again smartphon same thing so there's this amazing kind of twist in um in business history which is you cannot spend $10,000 on a smartphone right you can't spend..."

"self-interest uh what about AI taking our jobs yeah so very very similar thing here um there's sort of a there's a core fallacy which again was was very common in Marxism which is What's called the lu..."

"learn new things and new skills is painful for the individual two things one is the new jobs are often much better um so this actually came up that there was this Panic about a decade ago and all the ..."

"so the new jobs number one the new jobs are often better but you don't get the new jobs until you go through the change and then to your point the the training thing you know it's always the issue is ..."

"is that the net gain here is like just like wildly positive and most most people like overwhelmingly come out the other side being huge beneficiaries of this so you're right that the single greatest r..."

"publicized open you know U plan for what they're going to do with AI and it is not what we have in mind um and not only do they have that as a vision and a plan for their society but they also have it..."

"their their Silk Road investment program and they've got their they've been laying they've been laying networking infrastructure all over the world with their 5G right work with their company Huawei a..."

"put out this report forget what it's called but um they put out this report of this LM they did and they they you know the way when open AI you know puts out they they they one of the ways they test y..."

"stakes here are like really big well my as we've been talking about my hope is not just with the United States but with just uh the kitten in his basement with open source LM CU I I don't know if I um..."

"a company that starts a uh you know starts in an existing industry and goes directly to the customer in that industry and you know the early examples there were like uber and Lyft and Airbnb um and th..."

"companies that fail also what advice could you give to a startup founder someone who wants to build the next super successful startup in the tech space the Googles the apples the Twitter's yeah so the..."

"people don't understand about what it's like to be a startup founder is it get it gets very romanticized right um and even when it even when they fail it still gets romanticized about like what a grea..."

"people just have an irrational need to do something new and build something for themselves and you know some people just can't tolerate having bosses oh here's the fun thing is how do you reference ch..."

"the case where somebody has the idea first and then they kind of realize that there's an opportunity to build a company and then they just turn out to be the right kind of person to do that when you s..."

"exact product implementation details but yeah usually you're going to be for like years if not decades thinking about like everything around that well we call it the idea maze because the the idea maz..."

"leap if you have a cushy job or a happy life I mean the best reason is just because you can't tolerate not doing it right like this is the kind of thing where if you have to be advised into doing it y..."

"trade-off you know the advantage you know maybe younger Founders have is maybe they have less you know maybe they're not you know for example if they're not married yet or don't have kids yet that's a..."

"and as far to the political left and political right as I could so just high level question what's your approach to learning yeah so it's basically I would say it's it's autodidact um uh so it sort of..."

"Hitler uh one of which I read can recommend uh six books on the Deep history of the American left so American right American left looking at the history to give you the context um biography of uh Vlad..."

"Numa Dennis FAL de kulanis I like it uh what's uh what did you learn about who we are as a human civilization from that book yeah so this is a fascinating book this one's free it's a free by the way i..."

"of extremeness that we we wouldn't even recognize it um uh and and so specifically he tells the story of basically there were three levels of Cults there was the cult the tribal cult and then the city..."

"fundamentally that like pull towards uh cult is within us well so so my conclusion from this book so so so so the way we naturally think about the world we live in today is like we basically have such..."

"cultism yes we start to uh the search for meaning starts getting harder and harder yes cuz we we don't have that we we are ungrounded we are we we are centered and and we all feel it right and that's ..."

"are just like I sometimes you know bore I sometimes bore uh you know kids by describing like what it was like to go look up a book you know to try to like discover a fact and you know in in the old da..."

"um like like the tools are spectacular so what uh what's the explanation and by way of advice like is motivation starting to be turned down a little bit or what I think it might be distraction distrac..."

"right uh you told Tim Ferris that the perfect day is caffeine for 10 hours and alcohol for 4 hours you didn't think I'd be mentioning this did you uh it balances everything out perfectly as you said s..."

"do that they think the founders the founding fathers in the US threw this off-kilter when they use the phrase Pursuit of Happiness I think they should have said pursuit of satis said pursuit of satisf..."

"we talked about Steve Jobs what um what do you think is special about him as a leader as an innovator yeah so the the core of it is he's a he's he's back to the future so he he is he is doing the most..."

"ideal that he's only ever talking to Engineers like he does not tolerate bullshit he has bullshit do anybody I've ever met um he wants ground truth on every single topic um and he runs his businesses ..."

"wish more people would lean on celebrating and supporting versus deriding and destroying oh yeah I mean look he drives resentment like it's a resent like he he is a magnet for resentment um like his c..."

"like a wonderful thing like it you know a mentality you know there are pathological forms of taking care of people but there's also a very fundamental you know kind of aspect of taking care of people ..."