"people don't buy the problem they buy your solution obviously they don't buy it if they you if it's not solving something they care about but there are many products that are solving what they care ab..."

"winning solution what can i say about marty kagan that hasn't already been said he's the author of empowered and inspired two of the most widely read and influential books on product management he's a..."

"hear this episode and with that i bring you marty kagan this episode is brought to you by whimsical when i asked product managers and designers on twitter what software they use most whimsical is alwa..."

"lenny to have my own templates added to your account when you sign up that's whimsical.com lenny [Music] hey ashley head of marketing at flat file how many b2b sas companies would you estimate need to..."

"important totally it's incredible to see how our customers like square spotify and zora are able to grow their businesses on top of flat file it's because flawless data onboarding acts like a catalyst..."

"product management essentially how people don't really understand how different it is to build product at a company with a strong product culture versus uh what you'd call not such a strong product cu..."

"chasm between how good companies work in the rest there's such strong incentives like just the profit motive alone why don't more companies want to work like the best so i i find that just perplexing ..."

"team what it's like you realize that sometimes it feels like i'm speaking a different language to them and what i realize is that they are so ingrained in this sort of very very and i don't even want ..."

"them you know that's really not how it works in any of your favorite products any of your favorite products or companies it's a very different animal you know you've got you've really got true peers t..."

"real product teams should not use the same string product manager the job is so radically different that it just is it's misleading to call them both product manager for folks listening to this and th..."

"solutions so you're being asked to do a little design and a lot of coding and then some qa and then deploy and more generally you're there to serve the business now compare that to a real product team..."

"another difference is when you're given a problem to solve that's not output that's outcome so you either solve it or you don't as you probably know most good teams today are doing continuous deployme..."

"always try to remember to say this somewhere nothing i talk about and i'm honestly being very clear nothing i've written about and inspired nothing i've written about empowered was invented by us all ..."

"we don't invent any of this stuff we just try to share it there's a little bit i mean i don't want to the i'd say that the thing that we do is we try to untangle the company's culture from the techniq..."

"trying to do but all these companies stripe fabulous shopify you know look it's what slack has done even props to spotify they've been able to hold their own against apple and amazon for so many years..."

"and yes they really are they really that's all they know and of course the bigger question is why why would they really work like that we will get to that but anyway um you know i don't know one of th..."

"insights that you've been able to extract that i also loved listening to and and thinking about and i'm excited to kind of chat through this so first question is just what about this interview has str..."

"was that well the biggest reason i see is that they they've never worked at a company like that so they don't know what it looks like they don't know what good looks like and then i watched this video..."

"it the whole thing so don't let my summary discourage you it's worth watching but anyway he shares that he thinks what happens in general is companies get bigger you know obviously they wouldn't have ..."

"to keep this disease from taking taking over your your culture and product and company and i think there's like market share and then just generally it happens the company's just doing well things are..."

"innovate they will not cause major improvements to the company and so once they stop doing real discovery to me it's just the beginning of the end what's interesting there is if folks at the top are k..."

"a question i definitely wanted to ask which is sometimes founders or leaders think they're like i just know what to build why do we need to go through this whole thing just like just build this thing ..."

"the teams i i tell them look be careful if you need to spend a little time on the problem fine but don't spend a lot of time because you need to save as much time as possible to come up with the winni..."

"that's part of the how that's a pretty damn integral part of the how as well now you don't tell the engineers how to code you don't tell the designer how to design but you do have a big part all of us..."

"about if the jobs of a pm are just to find the problems like all right let's let's let's go with that life's good and turns out it's not yeah anyway your your last point also made me think about this ..."

"talking to a team uh this morning that was saying that yeah what they do with user research is they they test their prototypes and is and and when they get enough of users saying how much they like it..."

"they'll let them try especially if the the person making this argument says you know i've learned that the some of the companies we admire are not working the way we are and maybe we should try this j..."

"do i have that right and they'll probably say yes and they might say well no we're doing it for international purposes or some other thing good to know make sure you capture whatever it is so that's t..."

"the third thing is and this is usually the hardest one and it's the one that your stakeholders will judge you on is you have to learn the different parts of the business you have to know how it's mark..."

"which to me is the fun part you know that's why i wrote the book inspired was to share the most popular techniques there are other books too that talk about those techniques for discovery but you know..."

"we're not going to do this um that happens you mentioned yeah uh you mentioned a lot of things people can do and then you mentioned reading inspired is there anything else just like things that would ..."

"their job how do we how do we make that possible you know one thing because sometimes i have a tendency to be kind of cynical you know it's uh the world has changed so little over the years but i have..."

"career yeah i know that you um you teach coaches you you have conf you have a conference i think recently where you're coaching coaches is that right yeah not so much at conferences you know our probl..."

"product manager second product manager needs unencumbered access to the engineers there's a you know if you're not working every day with a set of engineers on solving problems you are not a product m..."

"project management quality assurance product marketing all this stuff run time production operations literally you can pass those to other people but don't delegate those three things i just keep begg..."

"they're like oh well we get so much data on how our products are being used for our customers we've created a product ops person that's going to sort through that data and they'll tell the product man..."

"what an incredible way to wrap up um where just two last questions where can folks find you online if they want to reach out learn more and how can listeners be useful to you well i mean all of all of..."