All Segments
Building Anchor, selling to Spotify, and lessons learned | Maya Prohovnik (Head of Podcast Product)
37 segments available
Maya Prohovnik is currently Spotify’s Head of Podcast Product. She was employee #1 at Anchor, which was acquired by Spotify in 2019 and now powers more than 80% of all new podcasts created in the world. In 2023, Maya was named one of the Most Important People in Podcasting by The Hollywood Reporter. In today’s episode, we discuss:• How Maya operationalizes “dogfooding”• How to balance data-driven decision-making and intuition• Strategies for preserving startup culture in a large organization• Tactical tips to improve at public speaking• How Radical Candor and the Eisenhower matrix transformed her approach to managing people• What’s next at Spotify for Podcasters — Brought to you by Sidebar—Catalyze your career with a Personal Board of Directors: https://www.sidebar.com/?utm_source=lennys&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=waitlist_launch | Wix Studio—The web creation platform built for agencies: https://www.wix.com/studio | LinkedIn Ads—Reach professionals and drive results for your business: https://www.linkedin.com/podlenny Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-anchor-selling-to-spotify Where to find Maya Prohovnik: • Threads: https://www.threads.net/@mayafish • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mayaprohovnik/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Maya’s background (04:34) Spotify’s podcasting platform (06:24) Maya’s personal podcasts (11:36) The importance of “dogfooding” (13:24) How Maya operationalizes dogfooding (16:31) How to balance data-driven decision-making and trusting your gut (21:38) Building Anchor 2.0 (26:24) The beginning of Anchor’s hockey stick growth (28:08) How Anchor utilized interns to make the Apple Podcasts integration “magical” (35:36) Anchor and Spotify’s successful integration (37:50) Maintaining a startup culture within a large organization (39:20) Transitioning from a startup to a large company (42:02) Challenges brought on by the acquisition (48:49) How Maya’s leadership approach is guided by Radical Candor (51:53) The Eisenhower matrix for prioritization and task management (52:46) Productivity tips (55:10) How to get better at public speaking (59:38) The future of Spotify for Podcasters (1:00:58) Lightning round Referenced: • What is “Dogfooding”?: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/business/dogfooding.html • The Derry Connection: A Stephen King Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ixSiYlj3A9NqEXZDBgycf • Blood on Their Hands: A Big Brother Fancast: https://open.spotify.com/show/4VP16lTL8sUniQXCFeBInv • Time Share: A Children of Time Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/38yhl2lNOUajccfsdluh5j • The End of the World as We Know It: A First-Time Parenting Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3TUr0LxcueYo2nvnyR5rML • Forgotify (stream Spotify songs that have never been played): https://forgotify.com/ • Michael Mignano on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mignano/ • Lessons from scaling Spotify: The science of product, taking risky bets, and how AI is already impacting the future of music | Gustav Söderström (Co-President, CPO, and CTO at Spotify): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-from-scaling-spotify-the-science-of-product-taking-risky-bets-and-how-ai-is-already-impacting-the-future-of-music-gustav-soderstrom-co-president-cpo-and-cto-at-spotify/ • Radical Candor: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Revised-Kick-Ass-Humanity/dp/1250235375 • What is the Eisenhower matrix?: https://www.figma.com/resource-library/what-is-the-eisenhower-matrix/ • Todoist: https://todoist.com/ • Getting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity: https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Things-Done-Stress-Free-Productivity/dp/0143126563/ • Spotify for Podcasters: https://podcasters.spotify.com/ • Children of Time: https://www.amazon.com/Children-Time-Adrian-Tchaikovsky/dp/0316452505 • It: https://www.amazon.com/Novel-Stephen-King/dp/1982127791/ • Poker Face on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-tv/poker-face • Barbie on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Barbie-Margot-Robbie/dp/B0CB1TMKR6 • Deadly Games: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096741/ • 1-800 Contacts: https://www.1800contacts.com/ • Lovevery: https://lovevery.com/ • CoopCrate: https://www.coopcratechickens.com/ Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
Segments Timeline
The Magic of Manual Distribution
Maya Prohovnik shares how Anchor utilized college interns to manually submit podcasts to Apple, creating a seamless experience for users. This strategy significantly contributed to Anchor's rapid growth in market share, demonstrating the importance of reducing friction in user experience.
"we were obsessed with reducing friction this was like our constant battle and so we hired a couple of college interns and we brought them in and we were like people are going to push push this magical..."
Maya Prohovnik: From Anchor to Spotify
In this segment, Maya Prohovnik introduces herself as Spotify's Head of Podcast Product and discusses her journey from being employee number one at Anchor to leading Spotify's podcasting efforts. She highlights the impact of Anchor's acquisition on Spotify's podcasting platform, which now powers a significant portion of new podcasts globally.
"because it was such an insane benefit over the other platforms which otherwise had been sort of commoditized at that point welcome to Lenny's podcast where I interview world-class product leaders and ..."
The Importance of Dogfooding
Maya emphasizes the concept of 'dogfooding'—using your own products to understand user experiences. She explains how this practice is crucial for product leaders, as it helps them empathize with creators and build better tools for podcasting. Her personal experience with podcasting informs her leadership approach.
"which Spotify acquired about five years ago which became the core of spotify's podcasting hosting platform which now Powers over 75 percent of all new podcasts created in the world in our conversation..."
Maya's Podcasting Journey
Maya discusses her personal podcasting journey, sharing insights about her four podcasts, including a Stephen King podcast and a parenting podcast. She reflects on the challenges and joys of podcasting, emphasizing the importance of passion and community engagement in sustaining a podcast.
"public speaking tips so much more Maya is amazing and I'm really excited for you to hear this episode with that I bring you Maya prohavnik after a short word from our sponsors this episode is brought ..."
Creating Community Through Podcasting
In this segment, Maya highlights the significance of community in podcasting. She shares how listener engagement and feedback have motivated her to continue producing content, illustrating the value of building a loyal audience and understanding their needs as a creator.
"supportive peer groups to lean on for unbiased opinions diverse perspectives and raw feedback everyone has their own zone of Genius so together we're better prepared to navigate professional pitfalls ..."
Balancing Data and Intuition
Maya discusses the balance between data-driven decision-making and trusting one's intuition in product development. She shares her perspective on how understanding user experiences through dogfooding can enhance decision-making and lead to better product outcomes.
"why spend a decade finding your people when you can meet them at sidebar today jump the growing wait list of thousands of leaders from Top tech companies by visiting sidebar.com Lenny to learn more th..."
The Role of Leadership in Podcasting
Maya reflects on her leadership style and how it is influenced by her experiences as a podcaster. She discusses the importance of empathy and user focus in product leadership, advocating for a hands-on approach to understanding the needs of creators.
"of delight while adding custom CSS gives total design control bring ambitious client projects to life with any industry with a fully integrated Suite of Business Solutions from e-commerce to events bo..."
Building Tools for Creators
Maya Prohovnik discusses the importance of understanding creators' needs when building tools for them. She emphasizes that creating a product for creators is akin to developing a B2B product, where the focus should be on solving real problems and enhancing user experience. Her background in customer support has shaped her user-focused approach to product development.
"doing their podcast they're like I get it like something clicked and now I feel like I really understand what they need and I think I guess like building tools for creators is similar to building a B2..."
Operationalizing Dogfooding
Maya shares her strategies for operationalizing 'dogfooding' within her team at Spotify. She highlights the importance of encouraging team members to create their own podcasts and actively use the tools they develop. By fostering a culture of internal storytelling and feedback, she ensures that the team remains connected to the user experience.
"I think if you don't have that especially coming from someone in leadership it's so easy to just fall into that trap of like well we're working on the next big strategic thing which is two years away ..."
Overcoming Barriers to Podcasting
In this segment, Maya discusses the emotional challenges of podcasting and shares her insights on helping new podcasters overcome barriers to entry. She offers practical advice, such as recording with a friend and avoiding rigid scripts, to make the podcasting experience more accessible and enjoyable for beginners.
"using the tools I think also I don't know I think a lot of it just comes from I'm so vocal about this stuff like the other night I was recording a podcast and I dm'd one of the engineers on our team a..."
Convincing Others to Start Podcasts
Maya reveals her passion for encouraging others to start their own podcasts. She shares anecdotes about how she engages people in conversations about their passions and helps them navigate their doubts, ultimately inspiring them to create their own shows. This personal approach reflects her commitment to democratizing audio storytelling.
"totally yeah and I also I mean one of my this is less about dog fooding but one of my favorite things is like I'm always just trying to convince everyone I meet to start a podcast that's just become m..."
Balancing Data and Intuition
Maya discusses the delicate balance between data-driven decision-making and trusting one's gut in product management. She reflects on the evolution of product development, emphasizing the need for creativity and user connection alongside data analysis. This balance is crucial for effective product leadership.
"parties I get it okay one thing you mentioned about being maybe the only listen of your co-workers podcast reminds me there's this platform where you could find Spotify music that has never ever been ..."
The Role of Data in Product Development
In this segment, Maya elaborates on the importance of data in product development while cautioning against over-reliance on it. She advocates for using data as part of the creative process, integrating user research and success metrics to inform product decisions while maintaining a focus on user experience.
"so it's like we used to be a lot more playful I think with software I think we used to put a lot more emphasis on things like delightful animations or like fun little Easter eggs and I I'm not sure wh..."
Gut Instincts as Valid Data
Maya shares her insights on how to effectively communicate gut feelings in a data-driven environment. She emphasizes the importance of backing up intuition with experience and anecdotes, arguing that gut instincts should be treated as valid data points in the decision-making process.
"people get into trouble is when they think that they can rely solely on the data and so what I spend a lot of time talking to my team about is how we can balance that so thinking about I guess a coupl..."
Navigating Startup to Corporate Transition
Maya reflects on her transition from leading a small startup to working within a large organization like Spotify. She discusses the challenges of coordinating with larger teams and the need for a more structured approach to product development while still valuing user feedback and gut instincts.
"and I think that what I try to do is always still as objectively as possible explain why my gut is feeling that way so it's like you can refer back to your years of experience or other things that you..."
The Evolution of Anchor
Maya recounts the pivotal moments in Anchor's evolution from version 1.0 to 2.0. She explains the difficult decision to pivot the product despite user satisfaction, highlighting the importance of aligning product direction with the company's mission to democratize audio storytelling.
"don't even know I don't think we had a data scientist until we were part of Spotify so I think it was just sort of Engineers like you know running queries but we uh there were a couple times where we ..."
Lessons from Product Evolution
In this segment, Maya shares the lessons learned from Anchor's transition to version 2.0. She emphasizes the need to look beyond vocal user feedback and focus on broader market needs, reinforcing the idea that successful product development requires balancing user desires with strategic vision.
"the mission that we sent out set out to solve and so the 1.0 to 2.0 transition was I think actually pretty painful because for all of those people who had been invested in 1.0 like 2.0 didn't work for..."
The Transition to Anchor 2.0
Maya reflects on the transition from Anchor 1.0 to 2.0, highlighting the initial resistance to user requests for podcast export features. She shares how the decision to embrace these requests led to significant growth and traction for Anchor, illustrating the importance of flexibility and responsiveness in product development. This segment underscores the need for startups to adapt their offerings based on evolving user needs while maintaining a clear mission.
"common cases something is working but it's not working incredibly well what do we do and so that's really interesting I feel like the first thing you said there is really important just like we had a ..."
Building for Everyone: The Anchor Philosophy
In this segment, Maya discusses the philosophy behind Anchor's development, emphasizing the goal of democratizing podcasting. She explains how the team initially resisted traditional podcasting concepts but ultimately recognized the value in integrating them. Maya shares lessons learned about staying true to the mission while being open to new ideas and user feedback, highlighting the importance of adaptability in a startup environment.
"one feature request that we got from people is they were like great I love using these tools and then I want to export it as a podcast and publish it you know and get people listening that way and we ..."
The Magic of Simplified Podcast Distribution
Maya reveals the innovative approach Anchor took to simplify podcast distribution, including the use of college interns to manually submit podcasts to platforms like Apple Podcasts. This segment illustrates the importance of reducing friction for users and creating a seamless experience. Maya emphasizes how this 'magical' solution contributed to Anchor's rapid growth and market share, showcasing the value of creative problem-solving in tech startups.
"people I think another less and there's just like try stuff like you said you tried this export thing let's just see what happens like no we don't think this is where we need to go but let's just try ..."
Embracing Unscalable Solutions for Growth
Maya discusses the concept of building unscalable solutions as a strategy for early-stage growth. She shares how Anchor's willingness to experiment with unconventional ideas led to significant breakthroughs. This segment highlights the importance of fostering a culture that encourages creativity and experimentation, allowing startups to discover unexpected paths to success while remaining focused on their core mission.
"think people think that we had some secret door like backdoor deal with with Apple for distribution but we uh we just had college students making apple podcast accounts and then submitting like hundre..."
The Power of LinkedIn Ads
Maya discusses the effectiveness of LinkedIn ads for B2B marketing, highlighting how they provide direct access to decision-makers and generate a higher return on ad spend compared to other platforms. She emphasizes the importance of targeting and measurement tools specifically designed for the tech industry, showcasing LinkedIn's unique advantages in driving results.
"after ramping up on LinkedIn and Q4 they had the highest marketing Source Revenue quarter to date with LinkedIn ads you'll have direct access to and can build relationships with decision makers includ..."
Anchor's Successful Acquisition
Maya reflects on the successful acquisition of Anchor by Spotify, noting how it stands out as a rare success story. She explains the integration process, emphasizing the shared vision between Anchor and Spotify to democratize podcasting and enhance the user experience. The segment highlights the importance of aligning goals during acquisitions for long-term success.
"so we've been talking about anchor and I think what's really interesting about anchor is it's one of the very rare success stories of an acquisition working out incredibly well like it was a small sta..."
Navigating Cultural Integration
In this segment, Maya shares insights on maintaining Anchor's startup culture within Spotify. She discusses the challenges of integrating into a larger organization while preserving the team's core values and agility. Maya emphasizes the importance of communication and collaboration to ensure that the team remains engaged and aligned with Spotify's mission.
"our our way of working sort of worked with them and then I think the other thing that we had to our benefit was they really saw the same vision that we had so it was like they also wanted to change po..."
The Challenge of Scaling
Maya talks about the challenges faced when transitioning from a startup to a large company. She shares her experience of adapting to Spotify's pace and the complexities of working within a larger organization. The segment highlights the importance of balancing speed and thoughtful decision-making while navigating the intricacies of a bigger corporate structure.
"of sense and I love the idea of just like staying excited about the what is happening I think a lot of Founders join in they're like oh so annoying to work in this big company oh man we had this origi..."
Building Relationships Post-Acquisition
Maya discusses the importance of building relationships within Spotify after the acquisition. She reflects on the initial isolation felt by the Anchor team and the subsequent efforts to integrate more deeply into Spotify's culture. This segment underscores the necessity of collaboration and connection to foster a sense of belonging and shared purpose.
"with that is Daniel Daniel ack when we got acquired came and talked to our team which was so cool and like so motivational and one of the things he said to us was you know we had a reputation at the t..."
The Emotional Journey of Acquisition
Maya opens up about the emotional challenges faced by founders after an acquisition. She shares her personal experience of navigating feelings of existential crisis and the need for support during this transition. This segment highlights the often-overlooked psychological aspects of being acquired and the importance of community and understanding in overcoming these challenges.
"anger like just keep doing what you're doing for like at least the next year don't worry about what Spotify is doing and on the one hand of course we loved that as startup people where we're like cool..."
Finding Purpose After Success
In this reflective segment, Maya and Lenny discuss the identity crisis that can occur after a successful exit. They explore the feelings of loss and the search for new purpose within a larger organization. This conversation emphasizes the need for founders to redefine their roles and find fulfillment beyond the startup environment.
"think the other thing that I found is just like I think there isn't enough support um for that transition uh and I think that for me like I've definitely landed on the side of I love working at Spotif..."
The Transition from Startup to Corporate
Maya Prohovnik reflects on the challenges of transitioning from a startup environment to a large corporation like Spotify. She discusses the existential questions that arise when the high-stress startup life stabilizes and how she learned to appreciate the structure and culture at Spotify while maintaining her core values.
"thing that I I think for me and it sounds similar to you like I think I didn't realize how much value I put in the actual day-to-day of like survival that comes with being part of a startup like that ..."
Radical Candor: A Leadership Game Changer
Maya shares how the principles of Radical Candor have transformed her approach to leadership and team management. She emphasizes the importance of caring personally while challenging directly, and how effective feedback can strengthen relationships and improve team performance.
"where I was like okay now I have to do things how they do and then I think what actually ended up happening is like I actually love how Spotify runs their company and I'm still able to run my team the..."
Understanding Underperformance
In this segment, Maya discusses her insights on underperformance in teams, emphasizing that it often stems from misalignment rather than inherent flaws. She advocates for a supportive approach to help team members find the right fit, reinforcing her commitment to their success.
"things you're not giving feedback in an effective way and the book just talks so much about the importance of feedback and how feedback is a gift which I have now come to completely agree with it's li..."
The Eisenhower Matrix for Productivity
Maya introduces the Eisenhower Matrix as a tool for prioritizing tasks effectively. She explains how she applies this framework to manage her workload, focusing on the importance of delegating, deferring, or deleting tasks to maintain productivity.
"my team or at this company awesome yeah I love that book and you talked about the two there's like this uh grid that the quadrants yeah it talks about and just the reinforcement you said like the core..."
Unlocking Productivity Secrets
Maya shares her personal productivity strategies, including the importance of writing things down and using tools like Todoist. She discusses how organizing tasks helps clear mental clutter, allowing for deeper thinking and problem-solving.
"helps you clear a lot of stuff out of your brain interesting so do you so you kind of don't even use it as a grid necessarily it's more make a decision on all the things on your plate yeah I do I just..."
Mastering Public Speaking
Maya offers valuable tips for improving public speaking skills, emphasizing the importance of reframing anxiety as excitement. She shares her personal journey of overcoming fear and the techniques she uses to prepare and engage her audience effectively.
"works every time have you read uh getting things done by David Allen it's on my list I haven't read it okay like that book totally transformed how I think about productivity and you're already doing a..."
Embracing Adrenaline in Public Speaking
In this segment, Maya discusses how to harness the adrenaline rush before speaking as a positive force. She shares practical advice on preparation, audience engagement, and the significance of passion in delivering impactful presentations.
"helpful I practice like a million times anytime I have to do public speaking so I think everybody has different memorization tactics different ways of doing speaker notes that work for them and so I t..."
The Future of Spotify Podcasts
In this segment, Maya discusses Spotify's strategic focus on podcast discovery and audience growth. She highlights the platform's commitment to helping creators monetize their work and introduces upcoming interactive features aimed at enhancing the podcasting experience. Maya expresses excitement about the future developments in Spotify for Podcasters.
"think that that helps and I think leaning into that so like when you can telling personal stories letting the audience get to know you I like to work some humor into my presentations I think that can ..."
Lightning Round Insights
Maya participates in a lightning round, sharing her favorite books, recent shows, and valuable life lessons. She discusses her passion for podcasting and the importance of hiring passionate individuals. Maya also reveals her love for backyard chickens and offers tips for those interested in raising them, emphasizing the joy and connection to nature they bring.
"stuff to come amazing mysterious and exciting uh with that we reached our very exciting lightning round are you ready yes what are two or three books that you recommend most to other people children o..."