"you've noticed a significant shift in how SEO works with the rise of AI answers being integrated into search results transparently I thought this was going to be apocalypse up until AI overviews whoev..."

"or YouTube it's the best way to avoid missing future episodes and it helps the podcast tremendously with that I bring you Eli Schwarz Eli thank you so much for being here welcome to the podcast it's a..."

"for SEO because it's causing everyone that cares about SEO traffic whether that's a PM whether it's a CMO whether it's a CEO to really be forced into pivoting their thinking about what SEO traffic mea..."

"you know I've talked to worked with many companies around how they should think about SEO and what SEO traffic should mean but others have not because those tactics did work and llms and AI in general..."

"integrates user feedback so that you can capture and analyze what people actually want and the new thing in pendo session replays a very cool way to visualize user sessions I'm not surprised at all th..."

"search you get real answers faster served from their own independent index of the web their AI search engine can give Lightning Fast incredibly accurate results for almost any question but Brave isn't..."

"llms and they may or may not have and some of the early open AI employees were Google employees but chaty BT came on the scene at the end of 2022 with this ability to ask any question and then get a w..."

"investments in them their stock price goes down and that hurts Google's ability to recruit employees it hurts Google's ability to raise money and invest in all the interesting stuff they do so Google ..."

"there were huge issues with what they were doing there because there's monetization issues they monetized I mean everything they do comes from ads the majority of their their revenue comes from ads so..."

"launch fast kind of company they reveal something and then it sort of rolls out very very quickly they're not the kind of company that says we're going to launch something and then they take a year to..."

"those things on social media so Google launches it and that was a little bit embarrassing so they they rolled it back somewhat but what's even more interesting is they've given up on this rollback and..."

"about so SEO was exactly like that CEO said to me years ago it's just about creating some content and then it's just like this sort of this race to the top of getting your ranking results on that top ..."

"time there so people understand exactly what that means before we get into what PE that and what people should do to win here uh what impact have you seen on SEO and search results and the space of SE..."

"the funnel that user is so if you are WebMD and you're writing content about the human body just generic content that has existed since medical journals were created AI overviews are going to be fanta..."

"overviews an e-commerce site maybe not it depends where in the funnel that user is as you're talking I was reminded of something that I forgot about with me my own experience I I used to have a websit..."

"that that was a recent uh that was AI oriented that happened like a decade ago so yeah I I totally totally agree well I just thought that was that was interesting to really drill into the difference b..."

"then you can say okay I'd like to go to this hotel or I'd like to stay in this city so help us help us understand even deeper this dis distinction between top of funnel and mid funnel so when people a..."

"the tools oh you're looking for a new CRM this is what a CRM is you want to know do you need a CRM or do you just need a calendar look at that and Google will just tell you in a paragraph and now you'..."

"dollar question what should people do what should people do to be successful in this new paradigm that as you're describing is like in motion like it's just starting to now happen and it may be catchi..."

"channel the user that's not going to be attracted by an ad the user that's not going to discover this tool from a trade show this is a user that's doing their own self-discovery journey and this is wh..."

"product which Zapped things together but no one needed because they didn't know it existed but people knew that they needed things to work together they just weren't looking for zap year so in in my d..."

"could accomplish with this product like there's this awesome product doing amazing things they have a need they're searching for say it's like Gmail and Salesforce and how do we help them see there's ..."

"with the rise of AI overviews and things like that is it this is where this is how future of SEO looks versus just keywords and endless block posts actually nothing changes here with AI overviews beca..."

"let's go in a direction I was going to say for later but it might be useful now which is say somebody's just sitting there at their desk thinking hey I want to I want to be Su I want to start doing so..."

"if I'm a user of this SAS I'm building SAS and I want to I want to Market this tool what is a user going to look for what's the problem they're going to look for that would make them want to do a sear..."

"and we're on a product podcast of course to the product people you're building the product for that SEO user so where do you get those inputs what does this page need to look like so the again the rea..."

"needs to be thinking of something they will go to Google to search for to find your product so it's if there if nobody is searching for the thing that you're building in some way there's not going to ..."

"best fit for SEO because if you think about that Journey the problem doesn't necessarily exist the SAS solves the problem but only once you know that problem exists and getting people to know that pro..."

"a small scale a lot of SAS tools shouldn't be doing SEO because there isn't necessarily an SEO journey I get a lot of push back from companies when I tell them they're like look at all the SEO we've d..."

"you have this all these product ideas and what should you spend time and money on so SEO is a channel you may or may not want to invest in so say there's a SAS tool and they're convinced there is an S..."

"should happen instead of this default well I just got my funding I need to invest in SEO because it's free and everyone does SEO and look my competitors do SEO it should really be this thoughtful stra..."

"budget and you get users who are interested they're in Market they try your tool out at the booth and then they leave and their leads that you could follow up with instead of investing in me like hope..."

"that they should have a website because if if you think about the buyer Journey for a person looking for food they don't typically go to a website so if you're looking for pizza and again a lot of piz..."

"mentioned a couple things that I want to drill into a little bit so one is just how long should take for you to see results two is just expectations of what is good conversion look like what do it tel..."

"depends on what it is that you're looking for there's uh some companies are building media and they they write I mean again I think most companies should just not write a lot of content unless they're..."

"wouldn't be a good idea so really understanding what is it that you're trying to do with SEO traffic that's your conversion metric so could be mqls could be page views could be dollar conversions it c..."

"metric we're going to use and again I don't know why SEO this happens with SEO but not other any other channel no one doing paid marketing will ever say this is how many times I'm number one on this s..."

"doesn't help the business awesome okay uh back to the question just how long it takes just to give someone something here that they can tell that can tell them when it makes sense to keep going or mov..."

"that awesome okay okay let me showare an example of one that worked really quickly so uh this was also a an interesting one and I was at Survey Monkey and I was introduced to the CEO of quora who was ..."

"and the second thing is they had no way that Google could navigate within the site so when you came to Kora and it's like this again so they reversed the suggestion I made but it was it I think it was..."

"further is that it's really building a product around what the company is attempting to monetize so canva is building templates because then they're going on to monetize that templates by having other..."

"it's not a solution so you can use AI to create content if the content you're creating is a part of that Journey so for example before AI content really came on the scene because ai's been around for ..."

"basically less don't use don't use AI to generate entire block posts I know people are doing this all over the place um but absolutely leverage AI to help you add to existing Pages descriptions titles..."

"Google because the amount of content being created is enormous and it it's growing exponentially and Google's trying to crawl everything they now have more content to crawl which becomes more expensiv..."

"brand like these are the top CRM tools you're showing up as a brand that means you've exercise brand efforts and it's working out so I I don't know that companies necessarily want their content to sho..."

"being one big effort so the same thing you'll do on PR you'll do for SEO awesome okay I'm glad we touched that there's a few other directions I want to go so it's kind of I'm going to bounce around a ..."

"going to do pay traffic for your house the only way someone would find that page on Zillow either they start at zillow.com and this navigate through it or they Google it so those are programmatic SEO ..."

"unnecessary so I can I think like generally you would programmatic is the better path and the most common success path is what I'm hearing what are things you need in place to be successful in program..."

"things I learned is one the market share Google's market share so that's been a number that no one really liked to talk about Google would say oh you know we think it's like 80% because they didn't wa..."

"there's a chance that chat gbt or perplexity or Claude or any of these other llm startups because there startups now uh even even open AI is a startup with being with Microsoft's investment still a st..."

"the world well isn't the idea with this trial that this may change and they may lose that default status whether it happens or not that's the whole game here right it's like maybe they can't be that a..."

"revenue from the ads which ends up being2 Billion Dollar something like that a lot of money for for apple and so anyone else can come to Apple and say we will give you a revenue share of our searches ..."

"do is get from 1% to 2% so and there's a lot there and Google being Google I don't see anyone knocking them off fascinating well thanks for sharing your uh takeaway so that we don't have to read this ..."

"choices to make so yes most clicks are probably going through the first you know one two or three results but there needs to be seven 10 multiple pages of Google because some people do go to those oth..."

"but they're actually wrong so let me just ask you what are some mths that people get wrong about SEO probably the the biggest one we said over and over is they even need to do SEO so there's this alwa..."

"by the way so I thank you no no one will just decide oh I've got money to burn let me just burn it so somehow SEO becomes this thing of like oh I've I've raised money now I need an SEO team so that's ..."

"Incorrect and there's an assumption that if you do a lot of things around SEO you're going to be successful and I I think that that's incorrect yes there there are nuances but for the most part you ge..."

"roles where I'm helping companies hire some for SEO they don't have a lot of budget which means they're going to have someone that doesn't have a lot of experience so is that the right decision to mak..."

"going to be things that are more appropriate for search so I think if you're doing top aunal Discovery you're going to maybe watch Tik Tok videos to learn more about the top but as you go into the mid..."

"place to do those searches to do those those bid funnel searches so maybe it was more inappropriate that Google ever that there ever wasn't a Tik Tok for you to get those better experiences for those ..."

"your business metrics let's do a couple more myths if there's anything else that we missed and then we'll wrap up and get to a very exciting lightning round is there anything else that you think is an..."

"of time so I think that's another big myth is you solve SEO problems with the right SEO solution rather than Let's do an audit or let's get better links or my page page speed is another one that agenc..."

"anything else that we haven't touched on that you think is important to you or something that you think might be useful to people to leave them with before we get to our very exciting lightning room y..."

"Up and you make an assumption that the word shoes in that tool didn't capture all the people that search like white shoes and black shoes and running shoes so you you just gross it up you just pick a ..."

"as as things shake out so there will be people that want to go into SEO Consulting and I think there's going to be a huge need for it in growth advising in general what I would say is and I had amazin..."

"amazing and I know you have some posts that get into this stuff that will'll link you right y awesome it's kind of think of yourself as a product and the the Journey of working with with you yes you'r..."

"reached our very exciting lightning round are you ready absolutely here we go first question what are two or three books that you recommended most to other people I as has been apparent I really like ..."

"to understand users the uh Simon s next start with why again same idea really understand what a product a business is supposed to be doing to understand users for growth this is specifically for growt..."

"the ends like but for real for real I love it okay it may or may not be a Google search query oh man I see I see what happened there G genus okay next question do you have a favorite recent movie or T..."

"recently so there's trending up it's been around for maybe a year at this point yeah I never would have watched it if it wasn't on a plane it was totally like seemed like a plane movie but it was perf..."

"better it's like right there in your face all the time so like they're so good at it and they got me they got me and I'm happy you know it's not like that much money in the scheme of things if you're ..."

"question curious if something comes up here what's your most what SEO win are you most proud of I don't know if I could say most proud of but I I really like what I did with Tinder because it was unde..."

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