"Today I have the pleasure  of interviewing Shane Legg,   who is the founder and the Chief AGI scientist of  Google DeepMind. Shane, welcome to the podcast.  Thank you. It's a pleasure being here. Firs..."

"then for all practical purposes, you have an AGI. Let's get more concrete. We measure the   performance of these large language models on MMLU  and other benchmarks. What is missing from the   benchma..."

"The thing you're referring to with episodic  memory, would it be fair to call that sample   efficiency or is that a different thing? It's very much related to sample efficiency.   It's one of the thin..."

"improve and probably be adequately solved. Going back to the original question of how do   you measure when human level AI has arrived  or has gone beyond it. As you mentioned,   there's these other s..."

"A lot of your earlier research, at least the  ones I could find, emphasized that AI should be   able to manipulate and succeed in a variety of  open-ended environments. It almost sounds like   a video..."

"obviously, because it exists in the world.  We know that human intelligence is very,   very powerful because it's affected the world  profoundly in countless ways. And we know if   human level intelli..."

"I think it'll be architectural in nature because  the current architectures don't really have what   you need to do this. They basically have a  context window, which is very, very fluid,   of course,..."

"you could do a compression test and you could  see if it fills in words and a sample of text   and that could measure intelligence. And funnily  enough, that's basically how the LLMs are trained.  At ..."

"And I think that's what we're seeing  today actually, that these incredibly   powerful foundation models are incredibly good  sequence predictors that are compressing the   world based on all this dat..."

"hidden gems. That's what creativity is. Current  language models don't really do that. They really   are mimicking the data. They are mimicking all the  human ingenuity and everything, which they have..."

"I think it's fair to say we're roughly doing the  sorts of scaling and training that you see many   people in the field doing but we have our own take  on it and our own different tricks and technique..."

"fundamentally a highly ethical value aligned  system from the get go. How do you do that?  Maybe this is slightly naive, but this is my  take on it — How do people do it? If you have   a really diffic..."

"thing. When you sample from a foundation model  at the moment, it's blurting out the first thing.   It's like System 1, if you like, from psychology,  from Kahneman et al. That's not good enough.  And..."

"And then you set it up in such a way that it  applies this reasoning and this understanding   of ethics to analyze the different options  which are in front of it and then execute   on which is the mo..."

"systems. The way I think about it is this: to have  a profoundly ethical AI system, it also has to be   very, very capable. It needs a really good world  model, a really good understanding of ethics, ..."

"in terms of the behavior of these AGI systems.  And then what you do is you engineer the system   to actually follow these things so that every  time it makes a decision, it does an analysis   using a..."

"Do you have some sort of framework  for that at Google DeepMind?  This is not so much a Google DeepMind perspective  on this. This is my take on how I think we   need to do this kind of thing. There a..."

"I've been worried about AGI safety for a  long time, well before DeepMind. But it   was always really hard to hire people to work  on AGI safety, particularly in the early days.   Back in 2013 or so, ..."

"you had a blog post where you said — “I’ve decided  to once again leave my prediction for when human   level AGI will arrive unchanged. That is, I give  it a log-normal distribution with a mean of 202..."

"then. You often hit unexpected problems  in research and science and sometimes   things take longer than you expect. If we're in 2029 and it hasn't happened   yet, if there was a problem that caused i..."

"anything is just loads of great applications  for the coming years. There can be some misuse   cases as well. I'm sure somebody will come up  with something to do with these models that is   quite unh..."

"to scale the alignment to increasingly powerful  systems. I think things of that kind of flavor   have quite a lot of promise in my opinion,  but that's kind of quite a broad category.   There are man..."

"limits their applications in many ways. The final question is this. You've been   in this field for over a decade, much longer  than many others, and you've seen different   landmarks like ImageNet an..."

"into the world in a much more powerful way. Do you mind if I ask a follow-up on that?   ChatGPT just released their multimodal feature  and you, in DeepMind, you had the Gato paper,   where you have t..."