"We're no longer in this era of good enough is fine. Good enough is not enough. It's mediocre. If you want to win in the game of software, you need to differentiate through design. Craft matters. What ..."

"market faster. I wish we had. Is there a counterintuitive decision you made along the journey of Figma? Fig Jam about a month before the launch of Fig Jam at config. It was like okay we built the thin..."

"about Figma make. The use cases that seem to be emerging in this world of AI app prototyping or prototypes for product teams. PMs are no longer saying to the designer, hey, can you draw this thing out..."

"Which function maybe is most in trouble. >> It all depends on the way that things play out from here. What you have to believe is your organization gets better as models get better. Have we seen produ..."

"down. We're hiring today. My guest is Dylan Field. Dylan is the CEO and co-founder of Figma, one of the most beloved and used products in the world. I don't know a single product team that doesn't use..."

"different from the other products out there, how he expects product building to look in 5 years, what good product taste looks like, his strategy for launching new product lines, and how market size i..."

"of nuggets to take back to your team. A big thank you to Mika Kapoor, Robert Bai, Yuki Yamashida, Ashai Cathari, and Zack Lloyd for suggesting topics for this conversation. If you enjoy this podcast, ..."

"products for free, including lovable, replet bolt nad linear superhuman dcript, whisper flow, gamma, perplexity, warp, granola, magic patterns, raycast, chatp, and mobin. Head on over to lennisnewslet..."

"processed just over 1.4 4 trillion last year. That figure works out to be about 1.3% of global GDP. It's a lot, but it's also just 1.3%. Stripe handles the massive scale and complexity of many of the ..."

"you know sometimes that's not the case and actually assumptions are being made that are you know maybe not quite correct or maybe we're underst staffed and we need to go resource an area better. You k..."

"Figma is the culture is incredibly fun and interesting and unique and and just good. I imagine a lot of people just join Figma because the culture is so good. It's really hard to maintain a strong con..."

"make. And we try to celebrate it, too. You know, Maker Week is an example of that where kind of like a week-long company hackathon and the only prompt is make Figma better in some way. you know, that ..."

"her if folks aren't familiar with her. Uh so I talked to Mika and a bunch of other people actually preparing for this conversation to see where I want to poke at. The co-founder of notion A Cathari ha..."

">> Well, uh it's very kind of a I don't think my NPS is 100, but uh it's very kind. Um I mean, look, I think um I've always loved competition and games. Uh, I definitely self- select into games that I..."

">> I'm curious how your leadership style has evolved over the years. Uh Vigma has been around 13 years as as we've been talking about. If you were to compare say Dylan 10 years ago to the Dylan of tod..."

"the things that that accomplish most. >> There's so many threads I'd love to follow here. Maybe just this last one on clarity is such an important skill for leaders, for product builders. Is there any..."

"Horowitz comment um I I've had so many relationships where it starts off they think I'm a mentor and then before I know it they're mentoring me or through the process of mentorship I'm learning becaus..."

"whiteboarding diagramming brainstorming tool. Uh, and it's basically a digital whiteboard and you can go in with your team. Uh, or maybe if you're a researcher, you can invite folks in from outside th..."

"intuition not a lot of like reasoning about it. And then co hit and suddenly this use case of bringing people together in this infinite canvas and the sorts of ways people were brainstorming with thei..."

"about a month before the launch of food jam at config you know we this big event and you know we know when we're going to launch it and it was like okay we built a thing it's not it's just lacking som..."

"And it also really built up the muscle of okay, we can go build a second product, we can build a third product, we can keep going to expand the platform and really cover all the way from idea to produ..."

"people talk about making things fun, delightful. Most people are like no we don't have time for that. What we got to make some we got to sell deal close deals ship features. What have you learned from..."

"get in your way. So, uh, it's been a cool place to experiment with fun and playful concepts in Fig Jam. We can do more there uh, on the play side that we can do in Figma Design. In Figma Design, if we..."

"product it's very hard to go from one to two going from two to n is much easier but going one to two is hard. >> Well let's follow that thread I wanted to talk about this. So you have so many products..."

"that like ability just pull in that context and rapidly started uh so lots to improve but it's really cool to see >> okay the non know yeah this many products so even better to ask this question a lot..."

"always high quality, but that was a different era of the internet than where we end up with and over the last decade or so with Swiss Minimalism, you know, and uh there's some point where Steve Jobs d..."

"are totally off-brand. Marketing wants to uh really quickly do bulk creation of assets. You could try to pack all that in Figma design, but it would be complex for the marketing use case and it would ..."

"make this um something that people can be really proud of? And AI won't get you there alone. AI is uh still in the realm of kind of law of averages and uh better prompting can help of course but how d..."

"the expectations were right rising uh for all software. And then it was a kind of like the game theory just makes sense. You have to make your product better and really improve your design. And that l..."

"more than ever because it's not just dev tools are a little better. It's wow you can create a lot of code really fast. Now in the 0ero to1 case it's extraordinary. In the one to 100 case with a establ..."

"example, in Figma design, can we get you to have a collaborative multiplayer moment? Same with Big Fig Jam. That's super important to see what this could unlock for you. Here, I'll read you a quote fr..."

"stuff. >> Absolutely agree. That's one I deeply resonate with >> uh and talk about all the time with my teams. Um the uh journey of making thing design was a lot of table stakes features had to be bui..."

">> Yeah, you guys took a long time to launch your MVP. How long was it before you guys launched? >> Too long. Uh, we started the company August 2012. >> Started working hardcore in Figma June 2013. cl..."

"sound bite. Stripe handles the massive scale and complexity of many of the world's fastest growing enterprises, including 78% of the Forbes AI50 and more than half of the Fortune 100. Enterprises like..."

"the world's GDP. Learn how Stripe can help your business grow at stripe.com. Speaking of moving fast and not waiting too long, let's talk about Figma Make. For people that don't know what Figma make i..."

"top priority for us and it's also something that we're rapidly improving. I mean yesterday we launched a feature once you take a screen from Figma make bring it into Figma design because sometimes the..."

"that. >> Well, you can also tweak the code. So I mean you can go in and put in custom images. >> Too much that's too much work for me, Dylan. It's too much work. >> Okay, just uh you go to the uh poin..."

">> I I think it's going to be very widespread across companies. um the ability to go create prototypes in software uh and I think it's a great thing and it's still takes a lot to go from an idea or a ..."

"than it being oh yeah well you're used to like oh the wrong elements doesn't look quite right. Along those lines a lot of the a lot of the AI building apps all kind of look alike and everyone's just g..."

"And then MCP as well making it so that you can go uh use MCP to pull for make. um make is shouldn't be the only end destination. Uh we need to create an ecosystem uh that that talks to other ecosystem..."

"was that was a new one for me I don't usually see the the academic literature measurement products >> what was the what were they how were they approaching and what not >> pairwise comparison mostly I..."

"very basic in the way we built it and it could get you choose some pretty cool outputs and you could edit the outputs and change you know colors, typography, uh some of the parts of the theme and uh I..."

"How do you actually do this QA work? This is a big problem for a lot of AI companies these days. They're just so non-deterministic. There's all this autonomy you got to give them. How do you how do yo..."

"uh some people maybe are born with stronger preferences about everything. Some folks don't care as much. They're not as intentional, but anyone can definitely lean into this. It's just this loop of ok..."

"that is such an incredible answer. So let me follow up here. One is just is there some kind of taste test that you find of like here's okay this person has great taste and then your point is you can d..."

"there's something to that. To that point, it's wild how many people on this podcast were very serious musicians before they got into business and product. Like a lot of piano players, I'm noticing. >>..."

"of a generalist too there's kind of a meta there which is interesting 56% of non-designers said that they engage a thought were a great deal in at least one design ccentric task like prototyping or vi..."

"Your organization gets better as models get better. And right now at least we are nowhere near at least in Figma uh the point where our demand for development for example is satiated. Have we seen pro..."

"to regret it later. On the point about job displacement and there's someone who's just tweeting the uh OpenAI released this whole eval G GDP val which measures progress of AI towards replacing actual ..."

"mean too flex in our hiring plans. I'm going through the whole planning process on headcount right now. It's like you know for the most part across the company we're uh adding roles and uh you know I'..."

"our very exciting lightning round, I want to take us to AI corner. What's uh what's a way you found to use AI in your day-to-day life or work that's really interesting, maybe helpful for people to lea..."

">> Dylan, with that we've reached our very exciting lightning round. I've got five questions for you. Are you ready? >> Let's go. >> What are two or three books that you find yourself recommending mos..."

">> Um and then understanding comics, it's I think just like a it's almost like an HCI book, but it's it seems like it's not. Uh so it's it's a great way to explore just like how do people perceive and..."

"imaginative. >> Have you seen the Matrix clearly? Okay. I have not heard of this. Uh next question. You usually ask people what's a recent movie or TV show they've really enjoyed. I hear you don't wat..."

">> Well, okay. So, I'll reveal one thing about it, which is it deals with some topics related to BCI. BCI is a long time interest of mine. I mean, I think >> what is BCI? >> Oh, brain computer interfa..."

"check it out. >> Speaking of taste, what a well welldesigned app. >> You got to get Nathan Ryan on here. They would you would really enjoy I think talking with them. >> All right, good tip. That's a h..."

">> That's what what's the difference? Okay. Final question. and I was looking you up and just researching your life and uh I learned that on your uh TL fellowship uh you wrote that you hate chocolate ..."

"all. It's just like really tastes horrible to me. >> That is a hilarious way to talk about it. What does it taste like? Is there way some describe why it tastes so bad? I mean, everything about it is ..."