"the way you describe the early years of notion you describe the first three to four years as the last years we try many different version the first version they everybody can make and create their sof..."

"also if you become a paid annual subscriber of my newsletter you now get a year free of notion Pro and perplexity Pro and superhuman and linear and granola check it out at Lenny newsletter. comom with..."

"limitations no compromises ready to se in action head to airtable.com Lenny to book a demo that's airtable.com Lenny Ivan thank you so much for being here and welcome to the podcast thank you for havi..."

"tools create software for their DayDay work and life okay so going back to uh you you to get into a great school and to kind of leave this small town not so small you had to uh enter a programming con..."

"that just got me obsessed with this problem and I want to start a company like noit makes me think of Steve jobs' famous line of how the computer is a bicycle for the mind you know what Steve Jobs is ..."

"two years now and you don't hear a lot of stories of companies of your scale and success that took three to four years to find product Market fit essentially what went on during these last years as yo..."

"perspective right it took We Were Young took us multiple years it hit your head straight into the into the water realize that people just don't I love the way you phrased that you kind of have to hide..."

"whole thing otherwise we're going to run out of time so that's inste reset a c-base reset a company so we can build on our WR worther do techn technology Foundation how did you actually stay solvent a..."

"so and my co-founder s feels the same way Leo is the only thing he like wanted for every Christmas have you guys seen magnatiles though I have I I have a one and a halfy old and magne tiles are quite ..."

"so there's also a moment where you moved to Japan just what was that about is that just like escape and disconnect yeah that was during the one of the Rew faces um during the we know what the product ..."

"day I saw stat you're coding hours a day like here's the quote I heard uh we just code code code then hey let's go off for food then we go eat go back to work and do it again because me and him workin..."

"working I'm kind of Lucky and S I'm kind of lucky that high is never too high low is never too low for us so somehow it wasn't feeling too down um whenever I feel down I just go to sleep then next day..."

"interesting you say that because there's also this there's this aspect of it wasn't working initially because you're building it for yourself and not for people but what I'm hearing is it's still impo..."

"Spectrum it's interesting yeah okay so I'll summarize some of the things you shared of just had to stick with it and stay with an idea and not give up so uh I love this said just get sleep very Briant..."

"here it's like you can create progress through better abstractions and that thing compounds faster can catch up to all the thing you build much quicker than you ever thought right your humans are not ..."

"days all these companies have been working on this for so long and then they've cracked kind of an abstraction of how to think about scaling these these systems and now just people launch them and are..."

"figured out exactly what you're describing interesting oh man okay last question about the early years everyone's always wondering what does par product Market fit feel like you worked on it for three..."

"the way had we just hire someone in the office as a dog then we I think we post on Twitter or something like why did this show up to our office someone really hustle into where we are as our office ad..."

"that's so true it's like I don't there's it doesn't help us make a better product right and the truth is with our what customer tell us um then we then sort of like we just went back to building I wen..."

"150,000 businesses including eight of the top 10 largest tech companies globally use cinches API to build messaging email and calling into their products and there's something big happening in messagi..."

"and how that's been a big priority for you so a few stats I've seen uh one is that you're you guys are profitable you've been profitable for a couple years now you haven't I think I don't know if you'..."

"of us I can c i can design I can do marketing storytelling talk talk s close sales deals so you sort of realize you don't need a lot and but when you can do a lot at the same time or hire people who c..."

"save our cash because otherwise we'll die do you think that was that was like a formative experience to inform how you want to operate or is that always something no I wouldn't say where notion is lik..."

"leader in the company you de who sit around you on the bus seat right that dictates how fast our overall bus moves dictate your work and life experience at this company because you're you pick your ro..."

"million people right the Sony transistor radio is the first one to shrink semic something small and useful for people and those things people's life and last for decades what is like to create a softw..."

"much of this conversation is this and the way you think about building this company is this balance between practical useful things people need and like business and you know practical stuff and then ..."

"with human behavior trade off where is we're not as a human ever since we got out of Africa we're sort of set right that's like a constraint it's an a variable and every generation pick up some new th..."

"to you yeah I guess you never been in a business meeting or brainstorm session with me I haven't seen that side of I yet yeah I wouldn't the most uh soft interaction person at work um it's actually th..."

"game and infinite games are more fun I love this idea I love that you keep coming back to this idea of there's like the ideals and the values and the vision and what you're trying to do and then you h..."

"um for a while and still is project management is one of most important use cases for notion and you can get your project man a better project management tool just by hard coding things like Milestone..."

"close call like how close we talking about if I recall correctly you're probably in weeks running all the time and then as you approach the limit of what post wordss can do Behavior becomes sporadic i..."

"ramping up certain businesses yeah people just run like they have to use online productiv software right collaboration tools yeah blessing and a curse speaking of a blessing and curse this is a great ..."

"optimize for business but we're optimized for that Vision um learning wise I think segmentation is quite important because people can use Lego for different things only hardcore Lego fans care about L..."

"that's such a good metaphor I feel like even if you're not building Legos for for business uh just this idea of what is the box that you are selling to people like what how's it being positioned how d..."

"market teams that's why we're I solution is one of my favorite work internally to Rally the sales team and the product te you think that way but then you need to hold in your head make sure you're sti..."

"teams good for AI actually that's a huge Market change that's like we did not expect until recently right um and save their cost which is um more and more people care about the bundling purchase nowad..."

"always want to build a meta tool a tool to build the L of software we somehow stun upon document notes as one use case and that just gave us a large help the funnel that there's a 1 billion plus peopl..."

"right now man watch out everyone and then you mentioned AI it's such a good point that AI is best when it has data and the fact that you have all of this stuff already in there gives you a lot of real..."

"relationship between tools and human potential in humans and how we live in the world the tools are extensions of us that's why our office room name out Timeless tools they are just extends us a littl..."

"feel so good to have a product that is so aligned with the way you want to see the world and actually working and growing at this rate and scaling and becoming this uh I don't know part of The Ether o..."

"and make living with it um it's awesome no yeah like millions of dollars it's crazy Ian before we get to an a bridge lightning round I'm curious if there's anything else that you wanted to touch on th..."

"and business so at Le very inspiring very useful for me personally makes me think of the quote good artists copy great artist steel great artist steel yeah Picasso still or Steve Jobs SP that from Pic..."

"at least a horizontal product because you're trying to channel the energy use smaller parts to create something that the sound is much larger than its parts is there a specific book that comes to mind..."

"being here two final questions working folks find you online if they want to follow up on anything and then how can listeners be useful to you probably find out me on Twitter Ivan hzo um just helpful ..."