All Segments
Be Wary of Solving a Small, Rare Problem - Des Traynor of Intercom
56 segments available
Des Traynor - https://twitter.com/destraynor - is the cofounder of Intercom - https://www.intercom.com/ Here's his talk Product Strategy Means Saying No - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AM6QQlgLSQ - and the blog post - https://blog.intercom.com/product-strategy-means-saying-no/
Segments Timeline
The PhD That Led to Intercom
Des Traynor shares his journey from a computer science PhD student to co-founding Intercom. He discusses his research on measuring programming skills and the uncomfortable findings that led him to abandon academia. This segment highlights the disconnect between academic assessments and real-world programming abilities.
"how did you meet your co-founder and decide to get going sure so I was originally a computer science student and I started a PhD you know my PhD was an attempt to see if we could automatically measure..."
From Research to Blogging
After facing resistance from universities regarding his research findings, Des Traynor pivoted to blogging about design and usability. He recounts how a comment on his blog led him to a networking event where he met his future co-founder and wife, illustrating the serendipitous nature of entrepreneurial beginnings.
"so typically the way and this is true worldwide I think the way like people in universities would mark a piece of code is to Sarah will give them entry points if they have a for loop and two points if..."
The Birth of Exceptional
Des discusses the early days of his design agency, Contrast, and the development of their side project, Exceptional, a Ruby on Rails error tracking tool. He explains the challenges they faced in communicating with users and how these experiences shaped their understanding of user engagement.
"his name was own mccabe and he was organizing this coffee morning and Dublin City for like all they're like you know the people who worked on the Internet which is a small group and this is like 2006 ..."
Innovating User Communication
In this segment, Des describes how a simple in-app message during downtime led to increased user engagement. He reflects on the evolution of their product features, including the introduction of user analytics and behavioral marketing automation, which were groundbreaking at the time.
"would like alert developers and notified him hey this piece went wrong and here's who was affected and that was like you know so that was the normal trajectory and then one day we were like we were ge..."
The Launch of Intercom
Des recounts the pivotal moment when Intercom gained traction after being featured on Hacker News. He shares how they leveraged their existing user base from Exceptional to onboard new customers, emphasizing the importance of community and feedback in their growth strategy.
"own email you know resurrect your email after like two errors of going true or trying to fix all of that we had to do every single time we wanted to say anything to our customers that was the norm so ..."
Content-Driven Marketing Strategy
Des explains Intercom's content marketing approach, focusing on providing value to their target audience rather than overtly promoting their product. He discusses the importance of creating timeless content that addresses user problems, which ultimately helped build a loyal readership and user base.
"distinctly reading one comment going like I'm not actually much of a fan of your product but this little chat thing is amazing we're like maybe you should all go build that and like obviously we had b..."
Building Authority Through Experience
In this segment, Des reflects on his confidence in writing authoritative content based on his experiences with Intercom and Exceptional. He emphasizes the importance of sharing genuine insights from their journey rather than pretending to be experts in areas beyond their experience.
"like a cool new product or whatever and I'm the engagement on that trash I still read it and then it was just kinda that was the first one where I was like a new order people had this problem with him..."
Evolving Roles in a Startup
Des discusses the fluid nature of roles within a startup, sharing how he adapted to various responsibilities as Intercom grew. He highlights the importance of addressing the most pressing challenges and how his focus shifted from product development to customer support and marketing.
"attract the clients and then later on it grow a user base for exceptional but what intercom was very it was you know we we knew we were good at it our specific it was my job so I was like right well t..."
Navigating Marketing Challenges
Des shares his initial intimidation when transitioning into a marketing role, noting the lack of structured resources in the field. He explains how he learned through observation and experience, emphasizing the diverse approaches to marketing across different companies.
"in their content just try and do sales pitches over and over and it never works and they can't figure out why yeah it's it's my number like basically you're totally correct a lot of people attempt at ..."
Learning from Others
In this segment, Des discusses the importance of learning from other successful companies and their marketing strategies. He reflects on the challenges he faced in marketing and how he sought mentorship and insights from industry leaders to improve his skills.
"always be roughly true and and that's how we mean we have like you know very very big user a readership of our blog today and it's one of our you know it is our dominant traffic source but a we you kn..."
Shifting Roles as a Founder
Des Traynor discusses the unique experience of founders shifting roles within their companies, emphasizing the rarity of such transitions. He reflects on his own journey in marketing, highlighting the challenges and intimidation he faced when moving into a new area of expertise, and the importance of learning from others in the field.
"market how we describe it yeah explain what it is what's our relationship with the media how do we pay for advertising and all that sort of stuff so that's what I've been working on for two years and ..."
The Intimidation of Marketing
Traynor shares his initial feelings of intimidation when starting in marketing, noting the lack of structured resources and best practices. He contrasts marketing with more quantifiable fields, explaining how the diversity of marketing strategies across companies adds to the complexity of learning this discipline.
"marketing I felt a little intimidated because marketing itself it's not really am like there's no real like marketing 101 sort of thing there's no like marketing for dummies there's no like there's no..."
Learning Through Experience
Des Traynor explains how he learned marketing by connecting with successful companies and absorbing their strategies. He acknowledges his mistakes and misunderstandings in the early days, emphasizing the importance of knowing what good marketing looks like to improve hiring and team structure.
"part of marketing you know all of that's different so I did find it quite intimidating early on and more so than the other areas where I felt there's a lot of literature and there's a lot of best prac..."
Understanding Customer Buying Behavior
Traynor highlights the significance of understanding how customers buy products rather than just focusing on selling. He discusses the various ways customers approach purchasing Intercom's services, stressing the need for companies to recognize and adapt to these different shopping journeys.
"yeah I guess um there's definitely like principles I've just picked up over time one is like the you know the general narrative about marketing is people will tell you well the engineers approach to m..."
The Complexity of Marketing Messaging
Des Traynor elaborates on the complexity of marketing messaging, explaining how different customers have varying needs and perceptions. He emphasizes the importance of addressing these diverse perspectives in marketing strategies to effectively communicate the value of Intercom's solutions.
"some people come shopping for a chat widget on our website right so we become looking for a solution to their growth challenges all right and they're all actually looking for intercom and what I mean ..."
Navigating Competitive Marketing Strategies
Traynor discusses the competitive landscape of marketing, particularly in the context of startup accelerators like Y Combinator. He explains the challenges of appealing to different types of potential customers and the strategies Intercom employs to stand out in a crowded market.
"lessons for us in their home it's been like learning to be able to like to put our hand up in all of those different shopping journeys so that was like one whenever I speak to other people who maybe l..."
Building Brand Awareness
Des Traynor emphasizes the importance of brand awareness in marketing, explaining how companies must balance performance-driven strategies with brand-building efforts. He shares insights on how neglecting brand resonance can negatively impact conversion rates.
"kind of a core of what we how we think about it so so when you have somebody who say is you know obviously YC has a broader yeah like so so some people just shop for YC and and maybe maybe you're so d..."
The Spectrum of Marketing Efforts
Traynor outlines the spectrum of marketing efforts, from hard-to-attribute brand-building activities to measurable performance marketing. He stresses the need for a holistic approach that incorporates both types of strategies to achieve long-term success.
"the basically what happens is like the amount the size of the is getting bigger each time right there are more people who are thinking about starting a start-up than there are people looking for YC to..."
Understanding Customer Needs
Des Traynor discusses the challenge of understanding customer needs and how to effectively communicate solutions. He highlights the importance of identifying various ways customers describe their problems to ensure that marketing messages resonate with them.
"relationship and we can get people on board with that you know they're more like oK we've built one bridge the next bridge would like to talk to you about is why messaging is a great way to build a re..."
The Importance of Problem Recognition
Traynor explains that successful marketing requires customers to recognize their problems before they can be sold solutions. He emphasizes the need for marketers to identify and address these problems in their messaging to effectively engage potential customers.
"then you can walk them then the logical path where like this obviously know what a choice won't earth would you go oh I see right and that's a you know that's the actual approach that we've you know w..."
Balancing Brand and Performance Marketing
Des Traynor shares a cautionary tale about the pitfalls of focusing solely on performance marketing at the expense of brand building. He illustrates how neglecting brand awareness can lead to declining conversion rates, stressing the need for a balanced marketing strategy.
"that's the piece that people don't necessarily get like in general the marketing world is one where you move from like this is really hard to attribute and it costs a lot of money down to like hey we ..."
Identifying Market Needs
Traynor discusses the challenge of identifying market needs and the importance of understanding customer language. He emphasizes the need for marketers to be aware of the various ways customers articulate their needs to effectively position their products.
"like this is why I like you need to like think about this think holistically you need to ask yourself are we building the brand are we creating the right brand resonance and relevance that we can cash..."
Effective Communication in Marketing
Des Traynor highlights the necessity of effective communication in marketing, particularly in addressing customer pain points. He explains how understanding the nuances of customer language can help marketers connect with their audience and drive engagement.
"yeah and so like we have to figure out what the synonyms are totally people don't know they need it yet right like it yeah and yes precisely on a donor marketing principle it's a it's like you you can..."
Aligning Product Messaging with Customer Needs
In this segment, Traynor explains how Intercom tailors its messaging to align with customer needs, particularly in onboarding. He stresses the importance of focusing on specific problems rather than generic marketing, ensuring that potential customers feel understood and supported in their journey.
"is your mistake people make pointing that okay all right so I got the bid term I'm gonna point them at that homepage that doesn't work because if someone says I want to onboard my users better because..."
The Core Idea of Intercom's Product Strategy
Traynor discusses the foundational idea behind Intercom's products: delivering the right message to the right person at the right time. He elaborates on how this core principle guides product development, marketing, and customer engagement strategies, ensuring consistency across all platforms.
"about it so as long as you know basically a you know every product I've often said like you know product and marketing and code and design are all like they're all renderings of the same core idea loo..."
Building a Personal Internet Business
Des Traynor outlines Intercom's mission to make internet business personal. He explains how every product decision is evaluated against this mission, ensuring that new features and tools align with the goal of enhancing personal connections in digital interactions.
"the opposite of that right but a but we can certainly have a collection of ideas that we can represent so when we bring so we launch new product in December of last year I called educate and it was ba..."
The Importance of Brand and Product Alignment
In this segment, Traynor highlights the necessity of aligning product development with brand messaging. He warns against the pitfalls of disjointed branding and product offerings, using examples to illustrate how misalignment can confuse customers and dilute brand identity.
"you're in [ __ ] trouble basically right but similarly I think so that that's the first challenges if we're selling onboarding and you think you're building like auto mailing we're in trouble right an..."
Guardrails for Product Development
Traynor shares insights on how Intercom establishes guardrails for product development. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining a clear focus on the company's core mission and values, ensuring that all new products and features contribute positively to the overall brand vision.
"just it also happens to happen at the same time right it's not helping you at all right well how do you think about product in that way then because obviously you guys are a big company now you could ..."
Challenges of Scaling and Hiring
Des Traynor discusses the challenges of scaling Intercom, particularly in hiring practices. He reflects on the difficulties of maintaining alignment within the company as it grows and the importance of onboarding new hires effectively to preserve the company's culture and mission.
"does it do that and then went in there like then we have other like sort of you know let's say rubrics for like what's the my what's the next most important way we could tackle the impersonality of di..."
Navigating the Hiring Process
In this segment, Traynor addresses the complexities of hiring senior leaders in unfamiliar areas. He shares his experiences and the emotional challenges associated with recruiting, emphasizing the need for careful evaluation and alignment with the company's strategic goals.
"too yeah the point I make exactly in a sort of hiring it's like if you hire one person who's not on the same page area and you let them hire people they're gonna hire more people in the same page and ..."
Maintaining Company Culture During Growth
Traynor reflects on the importance of maintaining company culture as Intercom expands. He discusses the challenges of onboarding new employees and ensuring they understand the company's mission, stressing the need for structured processes to integrate new hires effectively.
"onboarding it's like person number five joining a four person company has like full access to everyone and basically absolute immersion therapy right I already learned everything by osmosis person num..."
The Impact of Rapid Growth on Onboarding
Des Traynor shares insights on how rapid growth affects onboarding processes. He highlights the differences in experiences for new hires in smaller versus larger companies and the importance of designing effective onboarding strategies to ensure alignment with company values.
"talking yeah it starts it'll be a combination of so first and so it's a bunch of new hires it'll be a presentation for me a bit like walking show up see everything and then then it will be one normal ..."
Challenges in Scaling Marketing Efforts
In this segment, Traynor discusses the difficulties of scaling marketing efforts as a company grows. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the market and hiring the right talent to navigate new areas effectively, while also addressing the emotional toll of these challenges.
"like there's a few ones that have you know they're probably more typical but like when you eventually your end up hiring it area so you don't understand well Jana on your best bet at that point is to ..."
Learning from Hiring Mistakes
Traynor reflects on the lessons learned from hiring mistakes in the past. He discusses the importance of empowering new leaders while also ensuring they align with the company's vision, highlighting the long-term impact of hiring decisions on organizational success.
"break outside of a sort of your own area of expertise and hire well there but lucky you will learn it but it's just it's it takes longer and you don't get the same immersion that you did from like say..."
The Emotional Toll of Recruitment
Des Traynor shares his personal experiences with the emotional challenges of recruitment. He discusses the anxiety associated with hiring decisions and the responsibility he feels to ensure new hires succeed within the company, emphasizing the importance of support and guidance.
"you have to do these sort of sort of little rituals to keep the whole company on the same page but maintaining that is it's her it was hard for us in racer today we can spend a lot of money on video c..."
The Challenge of Hiring Senior Leaders
Des Traynor discusses the difficulties of hiring senior leaders in marketing, especially when lacking deep understanding of the function. He emphasizes the emotional toll of the recruiting process and the importance of empowering new hires to succeed, highlighting the long feedback loop in assessing their impact.
"definitely do like versions of it so any team that's distributed will will always come together once once to four times a year depending on the type of team okay then like leadership level and exactly..."
Navigating the Emotional Toll of Recruitment
Traynor reflects on the emotional challenges faced during the recruitment process, particularly the fear and anxiety associated with hiring decisions. He stresses the need for effective performance monitoring and open discussions about the realities of firing employees, which many startups struggle to address.
"really talking to accomplished people hmm so like it's not like you know it's not like you get them in and it turns out they can't they don't know how to write code or something like it's like it's ve..."
Learning from Mistakes in Management
Des shares insights on the importance of learning from management mistakes, particularly in hiring and team dynamics. He mentions the value of books like 'Monitoring Humans' that provide relatable stories for first-time managers, emphasizing the need for a deeper understanding of management as a craft.
"so learning had like ensure that we actually have a good Seifer say performance monitoring I think those conversations and even on podcast like this it's easier for me to not talk about stuff but like..."
The Importance of a Strong Vision
Traynor advises startups to establish a strong vision before diving into product development. He discusses the significance of having a clear purpose that aligns the team and guides product decisions, cautioning against jumping into solutions without understanding the broader context.
"them like you know yeah were there any books or anything cuz I feel similarly like so many people have given me advice and I've had to fall into the hole myself before I could really learn it but were..."
Avoiding Small, Rare Problems
Des warns against the pitfalls of solving small, rare problems in product development. He explains that while beautiful products can emerge from these ideas, they often fail to gain traction due to their lack of frequency and significance in users' lives.
"have them start I guess like I've always sort of said like startups need a strong vision so you do I'm like it sounds fluffy unknown you know people want to start writing code on day one for them ther..."
Identifying Big Problems for Product Success
Traynor elaborates on the characteristics of successful products, emphasizing the need to address big, frequent problems that users encounter regularly. He contrasts this with small, rare issues that fail to engage users, stressing the importance of understanding the problem landscape.
"of like let's just appraise the whole environment here and work out what unique thing are you saying I'm like when people pitch me like a new weather app or whatever I'm like but like what's your beli..."
The Dangers of Fake Traction
Des discusses the concept of 'fake traction' in startups, where early customer engagement is misleading. He highlights the risks of relying on low-cost solutions that require significant founder involvement, warning that such models are unsustainable and do not lead to scalable growth.
"and let's say over the last two years - is a large amount of apps that are all no default there was saying you know - I'm Marc Andreessen splits up his tweets will help you do that and they designed t..."
Navigating Growing Markets
Traynor addresses the dynamics of entering growing markets while still adhering to the principles of solving significant problems. He cautions that even in large markets, if the problems are small and rare, the likelihood of achieving meaningful engagement and revenue remains low.
"the next waved and disorder like little philosophies that say isn't like if you're gonna charge it not a lot of money it needs to be self-serve and it needs to be entirely frictionless for the users a..."
Intercom's Growth Initiatives
Des outlines Intercom's growth initiatives, focusing on enhancing marketing strategies to communicate value more directly. He emphasizes the need to connect the company's content and software offerings better, aiming to demonstrate how Intercom can drive significant business results.
"on top of that they can take it or leave it once a year when the actual problem occurs it's just not gonna work you know they're never gonna pay you enough yeah so there were a couple questions about ..."
Connecting Content and Software
Traynor shares his vision for better connecting Intercom's brand with its content and software offerings. He notes the challenge of being a well-known brand that lacks clarity in its software solutions. By leveraging their popular content, such as podcasts and blogs, he aims to create a stronger association between Intercom's identity and its product offerings.
"whole area that I'm quite invested in and the second one for me is I'm the intercom brand is quite big we had like you know a 1200 people show up to our event here on Wednesday we felt like six thousa..."
The Balance of Brand Specificity
Des Traynor discusses the tension between brand specificity and ambiguity. He warns against becoming too narrowly defined, which can limit growth potential. Traynor uses examples of startups that pigeonhole themselves into specific niches, emphasizing the need for brands to maintain flexibility while still being recognizable and relevant in the market.
"their local incubator shop or whatever I'm like and it's because no one's you know it's because almost you know in both senses intercom oh I see maybe you've been a bit too demure or standoffish okay ..."
Avoiding Brand Commoditization
Traynor cautions against the risk of commoditization in branding, particularly for companies like Y Combinator. He explains how focusing solely on quantifiable metrics can dilute a brand's identity and value proposition. By maintaining a strong brand narrative, companies can avoid being reduced to mere financial transactions.
"quantify data someone else come in say we're 60 K for 7% don't know you've lost a fight because you've made it so quantifiable you've taken brand and all that other stuff out of it that you've basical..."
Finding the Right Level of Abstraction
Des Traynor elaborates on the importance of finding the right level of abstraction for a brand. He explains how Intercom's mission is to make internet business personal, and how this guiding principle helps in defining their product offerings. Traynor emphasizes the need for brands to balance specificity with broader appeal to effectively reach their target audience.
"brand in any way you know it's you know if you're like you know hotels calm or do you do oh okay that's cool but now you see our hotels are come and we also sell flights and you're like huh yeah total..."
Tailoring User Experiences
Traynor discusses the significance of tailoring user experiences in the onboarding process for Intercom's products. He highlights the necessity of understanding different user needs and creating specific pathways for various customer segments. This approach has led to improved conversion rates and customer satisfaction.
"anyone who has an internet business right so so from not point to do job one create an audience of people who are interested in internet businesses under problems and then job two is then sort of spec..."
Iterating on Onboarding Strategies
Des Traynor reflects on the iterative process of refining onboarding strategies at Intercom. He notes the importance of experimenting with different approaches to enhance user engagement and conversion. Traynor emphasizes that understanding user behavior is crucial for optimizing the onboarding experience.
"need to talk to those folks over marketing I'm just trying to support people yeah so what we actually did what we ended up doing as we split up our product into like into the things we knew it was use..."
The Future of Intercom's Growth
Traynor shares insights on the future direction of Intercom as it scales. He discusses the transition from a startup mentality to a more structured approach, focusing on how the company can continue to innovate and grow while maintaining its core values and mission.
"enough because it's not part of the wireframes if you know I mean it it doesn't you know like you don't have the same producer in the room with the designer that's just the icon first yeah yeah it's h..."
From Swiss Army Knife to Scalpel
Des Traynor shares insights on the evolution of roles within startups as they scale. He compares his early versatile role at Intercom to a Swiss Army knife, highlighting the transition to more specialized roles as the company grows and matures.
"I would guess you know we're out of scale now were in general as startups grow you move from like Swiss Army knives to scalpels right so yeah so and I was hysterically like a Swiss Army knife with one..."
Opportunities in Soccer Technology
Traynor identifies a significant gap in the technology surrounding soccer, the world's largest sport. He discusses the potential for innovation in streaming and accessibility, likening it to the pre-iTunes music industry, and emphasizes the need for solutions to improve the viewing experience.
"never failed to surprise me with the areas it the ways in which you can you know produce new problems for me let's say yeah so then what if you weren't working on intercom what would you work on I did..."
Simplifying Financial Services
In this segment, Traynor explores the complexities of pensions and retirement funds, drawing parallels to the insurance industry. He highlights the potential for startups to simplify these processes, making them more accessible and user-friendly, similar to the approach taken by companies like Lemonade.
"much it fixed that I think the opportunity is big the markets huge so that's one another one is I think no one has really taken a harsh look at like let's just say pensions and retirement funds there ..."
The Challenge of Bureaucracy in Finance
Des Traynor discusses the bureaucratic challenges in the finance industry and how they create barriers for innovation. He emphasizes the need for startups to tackle these issues and the potential rewards of simplifying complex financial processes for users.
"you know but like I need to go and draw that whole landscape and then be like how am i excited to put another decade in my life onto something like this yeah because like intercoms you know or the int..."
Reflecting on a Memorable Talk
Traynor reflects on his impactful seven-minute talk titled 'Product Strategy Means Saying No.' He shares how the experience shaped his public speaking career and the importance of being dynamic and engaging in presentations, leading to future opportunities.
"that's a whole category of startups that are just now in the past couple years being attacked yeah because in the past was like I'm gonna just make developer tools and stay it's just it's just me and ..."