Keoki Jackson, CTO of Lockheed Martin, introduces the company's legacy of engineering excellence, highlighting its role in creating groundbreaking military and space systems. He discusses the complex moral landscape of military engineering and the potential for artificial intelligence to contribute positively to these systems.
"the following is a conversation with keoki Jackson he's the CTO of Lockheed Martin a company that through his long history has created some of the most incredible engineering Marvel's human beings hav..."
Keoki reflects on the incredible engineering feats achieved by Lockheed Martin, referencing Ben Rich's book 'Skunk Works.' He shares personal anecdotes about iconic aircraft like the F-104 Starfighter and the SR-71, emphasizing the impact of these innovations on aviation history and his own career.
"because in part Lockheed Martin builds military systems that operate in a complicated world that often does not have easy solutions in the grey area between good and evil I hope one day this world wil..."
In this segment, Keoki expresses his passion for space exploration and the advancements Lockheed Martin is making towards human missions to Mars. He discusses the Orion spacecraft and the vision for establishing a human presence on Mars, sharing his personal dream of seeing humans colonize another planet.
"okie Jackson I read several books on Lockheed Martin recently my favorite in particulars by Ben rich called skunkworks personal memoir it gets a little edgy at times but from that I was reminded that ..."
Keoki outlines the long-term goals of Lockheed Martin regarding a sustainable human presence in space, including the challenges of establishing a lunar base and the engineering hurdles that must be overcome. He emphasizes the importance of reducing launch costs and developing infrastructure for sustained missions.
"junkie junkie that's why I came to MIT that's really what took me ultimately to Lockheed Martin and I grew up in so Lockheed Martin for example has been essentially at the heart of every planetary mis..."
Discussing the timeline for lunar missions, Keoki highlights the goal of returning to the Moon by 2024-2025. He explains the engineering challenges of not just reaching the Moon but establishing a permanent presence, focusing on the need for infrastructure to support long-term habitation.
"it's something that I'd hoped to see so maybe you can give a little bit an overview of the Lockheed Martin's partner with a few years ago with Boeing to work with the DoD and NASA to build launch syst..."
Keoki contrasts robotic exploration with human missions, discussing the advancements in robotic technology and the unique adaptability of humans in space. He reflects on past missions and the importance of human presence for real-time decision-making and exploration.
"surface and back again and so that's sort of that near-term and I say near-term in the next decade or so vision starting off with you know stated objective by this administration to get back to the mo..."
In this segment, Keoki explains the innovative techniques used in asteroid missions, such as the OSIRIS-REx mission to Bennu. He describes the autonomous mapping and sample collection processes, showcasing human ingenuity in designing systems for space exploration.
"we've got osiris-rex which is a mission to the asteroid Bennu so the spacecraft is out there right now I'm basically a year mapping activity to map the entire surface of that asteroid in great detail ..."
Keoki discusses the role of AI in space exploration, introducing the concept of an AI assistant for astronauts. He emphasizes the importance of human adaptability and decision-making in conjunction with AI capabilities, envisioning a future where humans and AI work together seamlessly in space.
"it doesn't really land almost it's it's a very short landing Wow that's that's incredible so what is uh in those talk a little bit more about space eh what's the role of the human in all of this what ..."
The conversation shifts to the concept of digital twins in space system development. Jackson explains how Lockheed Martin has refined its understanding of the space environment over decades, allowing for sophisticated modeling of spacecraft behavior and the challenges of developing systems that can learn and adapt in unpredictable environments.
"best of the human to respond to to changing circumstances and rely on the best of AI capabilities to monitor these you know this almost infinite number of data points and correlations and data points ..."
Jackson addresses the complexities of verifying and validating non-deterministic AI systems in space. He discusses the importance of research in trust and verification, emphasizing the need for a culture of safety and continuous improvement in developing autonomous systems that incorporate AI capabilities.
"you're bringing into that loop a system depending on how its developed that may be non-deterministic it may be learned as it goes in fact we anticipate that it will be learning as it goes and so that ..."
In this segment, Jackson defines the spectrum of autonomy in aerospace systems, from no autonomy to full autonomy. He explains how different missions require varying levels of human intervention and the implications of integrating AI into these systems, particularly in safety-critical environments.
"systems they're going to be part of the design for all of our future systems and so maybe I should take a step back and say the way we define autonomy so we talk we talk about autonomy essentially sys..."
Jackson reflects on the lessons learned from aviation accidents, such as the Boeing 737 Max crashes. He emphasizes the need for a culture of safety and continuous inquiry in the aerospace industry, highlighting the importance of understanding human-machine interactions and the complexities of modern software systems.
"everything that we develop I the kinds of things that Lockheed Martin does you know a lot of times our safety of life critical kinds of missions you think about aircraft for example and so we require ..."
This segment focuses on the critical role of safety culture in aerospace engineering. Jackson discusses how the aerospace industry has developed a culture that prioritizes safety and operational success, and the challenges posed by the increasing complexity of systems that require rigorous testing and verification.
"think it starts with the culture right which is not necessarily something that a is taught in school or B is something that would come here depending on what kind of software you're developing it may ..."
Jackson stresses the importance of a commitment to continuous improvement in aerospace engineering. He discusses the need for root cause analysis and corrective actions following incidents, emphasizing that striving for zero accidents requires ongoing efforts to enhance system safety and reliability.
"space but today you know there's a there's a lot of work to really try to bound the system to understand predictable ways and then have this culture of continuous inquiry and skepticism and questionin..."
In this segment, Jackson outlines Lockheed Martin's mission to solve complex problems through advanced technology. He highlights the company's history of innovation, including the development of advanced aircraft and spacecraft, and its commitment to addressing the needs of customers in defense and space exploration.
"passengers the people on the ground involved and you know it's also a huge business and economic setback as well I mean you know we've seen that it's impacting essentially the trade balance of the US ..."
Jackson reflects on significant milestones in aerospace innovation, including advancements in stealth technology and hypersonic travel. He discusses how these breakthroughs were once considered impossible and the engineering feats that made them a reality, showcasing Lockheed Martin's role in pushing the boundaries of aerospace capabilities.
"so that didn't happen by accident it was through the regulatory agencies FAA the airframe manufacturers really working on a system to identify root causes and driving them out so maybe we can take a s..."
Keoki Jackson discusses the Aegis Combat System, an integrated air and missile defense system designed to protect U.S. and allied fleets from various threats. He explains its applications, including the Aegis Ashore version deployed globally, and highlights its role in safeguarding military and civilian populations.
"combat system this is basically the integrated air and missile defense system for the u.s. and allied fleets and so protects you know Carrier Strike groups for example from incoming ballistic missile ..."
In this segment, Jackson elaborates on the THAAD program, which provides broad area defense against sophisticated ballistic missile threats. He emphasizes its importance for both military capabilities and the protection of civilian areas, referencing its deployment and international interest.
"activity another one the Thad program so Thad this is the theater high altitude area defense this is to protect you know relatively broad areas against sophisticated ballistic missile threats and so n..."
Jackson reflects on Lockheed Martin's history of innovation, particularly in stealth technology and hypersonics. He discusses the challenges and breakthroughs in achieving supersonic and hypersonic speeds, emphasizing the engineering feats that have made these advancements possible.
"we saw you know maybe the first public use of these back in the in the first Gulf War with the Patriot systems and these are these are the kinds of things that Lockheed Martin delivers and there's a l..."
Exploring the Skunk Works concept, Jackson shares insights into Kelly Johnson's 14 principles that drive innovation. He highlights the effectiveness of small, motivated teams shielded from bureaucracy, and how close relationships with customers enable groundbreaking developments.
"biggest most impressive milestones of innovations if you look at stealth I would have called you crazy if you said that's possible at the time and supersonic and hypersonic so traveling it first of al..."
Jackson explains the technology behind stealth aircraft, focusing on radar cross-section reduction. He discusses the cat-and-mouse game between radar advancements and stealth capabilities, emphasizing the continuous innovation required to maintain an edge in aerial defense.
"these incredible things and you know we listed off a number that you can you brought up stuff and I mean this this whole you know I wish I could have seen been rich with a ball-bearing you know rollin..."
In this segment, Jackson addresses the emerging hypersonic threats posed by nations like Russia and China. He discusses the urgency for the U.S. to develop countermeasures and highlights Lockheed Martin's ongoing investments in hypersonic technology to ensure national security.
"wise there what's the broadly sort of it the stuff you speak about I'll stick to what's in been Rich's but obviously the geometry of how radar gets reflected and the kinds of materials that either ref..."
Jackson discusses the complexities of detecting hypersonic threats and the evolution of missile defense systems. He reflects on historical advancements in missile defense and the need for continuous improvement to stay ahead of evolving threats.
"today and so there's a real sense of urgency you hear it from folks like the Undersecretary of defense for research and engineering dr. Mike Griffin and others in the department of defense that hypers..."
Jackson shares his thoughts on the balance between classified projects and public inspiration in engineering. He highlights the importance of showcasing advanced technologies like the F-35 and GPS, which have significant impacts on everyday lives and inspire future generations.
"very excited about so I I would anticipate we'll be hearing more about that in the future from our customers and I've actually haven't read much about this probably you can't talk about much of it at ..."
Reflecting on his experience with GPS programs, Jackson recounts a story illustrating the technology's life-saving impact on military personnel. He emphasizes the importance of mission-driven work and how it resonates with both engineers and the public.
"it's a good question I think the public can see enough of including students who may be in grade school high school college today to understand the kinds of really hard problems that we work on and I ..."
Jackson discusses the advancements in autonomous flight technology, particularly in military applications. He explains how current systems are evolving to enhance pilot roles and improve safety through automation, while also addressing the challenges of fully autonomous aircraft.
"give you an example I had the privilege to work and lead our GPS programs for some time and that was a case where he actually worked on a program that touches billions of people every day and so when ..."
In this segment, Jackson describes a demonstration involving an autonomous F-16 acting as a wingman. He highlights the potential of human-machine teaming in military operations and the implications for flight safety and mission effectiveness.
"more visible to the public yeah I think autonomy especially in flight is super exciting do you do you see if a day here we go back into philosophy future when most fighter jets will be highly autonomo..."
Jackson discusses Lockheed Martin's development of autonomous collision avoidance systems for fighter aircraft. He shares success stories of these systems saving lives and emphasizes the importance of integrating advanced safety features into modern military aviation.
"you know the control systems are such that you really have dialed out the variability and what that comes with all the environmental condition wearing it out so my point is to certain extent that worl..."
Jackson introduces the concept of 'optimal piloting' developed by Sikorsky Innovations, which allows for varying levels of autonomy in aircraft operations. This segment explores how this technology can adapt to different mission requirements, enhancing both crewed and uncrewed flight capabilities.
"cars but is there any exploration of perception of for example detecting G lock that the pilot has is out so as opposed to perceiving the external environment to infer that the pilot is out but actual..."
Discussing the commercial implications of autonomous flight, Jackson highlights the economic advantages of using AI in logistics and supply delivery. He emphasizes how these technologies can reduce operational costs and improve efficiency in challenging environments.
"pilots and and have if you can think of it almost as like a dial of the level of autonomy that you want but able so it's running in the background at all times and able to pick up tasks whether it's y..."
Jackson addresses concerns regarding the AI arms race in military applications, emphasizing the need for human control over autonomous systems. He discusses the balance between leveraging AI for safety and ensuring it does not operate beyond human oversight.
"a difficult question from the a space that I would love it if we're able to comment so a lot of this autonomy in AI you've mentioned just now as this empowering effect that one is the last resort it k..."
In this segment, Jackson reflects on the evolving landscape of global threats and the importance of strategic deterrence. He discusses the implications of new weapon systems and the necessity for advanced technologies to address these challenges.
"concern when we're talking about military applications that too much control and decision-making capabilities giving too after AI well I don't see it happening today and in fact this is something from..."
Jackson explains how AI can compress decision-making cycles on the battlefield, enhancing military effectiveness. He introduces the concept of the OODA loop and how AI can help military personnel react faster than adversaries.
"things and then you add on top of that the North Korean threat has certainly not gone away there's a lot going on in the Middle East with Iran in particular and we see this global terrorism threat has..."
Jackson discusses the Department of Defense's policies regarding autonomous systems, emphasizing the importance of human agency and ethical considerations in military applications of AI. He outlines the guidelines that govern the use of these technologies.
"in general has a lot to benefit from just decreasing from thirty two years to one second as opposed to on the scale of seconds and minutes and hours making decisions that humans are better at thinking..."
In this concluding segment, Jackson reflects on the role of technology in nuclear deterrence and the complexities of modern geopolitical threats. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining effective deterrent capabilities in a multipolar world.
"going to treat AI and autonomous systems that it's not a free-for-all and like there are rules of war and rules of engagement with other kinds of systems think chemical weapons biological weapons we n..."
Jackson reflects on Lockheed Martin's contributions to both military and non-military sectors, including space exploration. He addresses President Eisenhower's concerns about the military-industrial complex and discusses the necessity of relevant investments in defense capabilities in light of changing global threats.
"different character today you know we used to think of weapons of mass destruction in terms of nuclear chemical biological and today we have a cyber threat we've seen examples of the use of cyber weap..."
Jackson emphasizes the unique nature of the defense market, where close partnerships between customers and manufacturers are crucial. He discusses the challenges of building defense systems that meet stringent safety and operational requirements, highlighting Lockheed Martin's expertise in this area.
"strategic deterrence yeah I know that Lockheed is involved in cyber I saw I studied that you mentioned that it's an incredibly a nuclear almost seems easier than cyber because there's so many attack b..."
In this segment, Jackson discusses the dynamic nature of global defense expenditures and the relevance of military investments in response to evolving threats. He reflects on the historical context of military spending and the need for ongoing innovation in defense technologies.
"phrase of course and and I think it is worth pointing out as you noted that Lockheed Martin we are in a number of commercial businesses from energy to space to commercial aircraft and so I wouldn't an..."
Jackson shares insights on the engineering challenges faced in developing defense systems. He highlights the importance of precision and reliability in these systems, referencing the high stakes involved in defense engineering and the need for continuous improvement.
"in defense defensive capabilities the other thing I'd note for military and defensive systems it's it's not quite a free market right we don't sell to you know people on the street and that warrants a..."
Jackson discusses the competitive landscape of the space industry, particularly in relation to companies like SpaceX. He expresses enthusiasm for the current innovations in space technology and the importance of competition in driving advancements in the field.
"needs yeah because building those system is very costly it's very little room for mistake I mean it's yeah just been Rich's book and so on just tells the story it's never I can just reading it if you'..."
In this concluding segment, Jackson speculates on the future of technology and engineering over the next century. He envisions a world that is faster, more connected, and more autonomous, emphasizing the need for Lockheed Martin to invest in emerging technologies like AI and quantum computing to stay ahead of potential threats.
"is this explosion of new capabilities that have been driven by things like the you know the massive increase in computing power things like the massive increase in comms capabilities advanced and addi..."