"the following is a conversation with brian muirescu author of the immortality key the secret history of the religion with no name a book that reconstructs the forgotten history of psychedelics in the ..."

"with brian murescu who or what do you think god is how is our conception maybe put another way of god changed throughout history we're starting with an easy one lex yep [Laughter] so what is god well ..."

"time it's somehow the thing that's inside of us also the ultimate paradox mcfield of magdeburg 13th century german mystic maybe the first german mystic um says that the the day of her spiritual awaken..."

"if that makes any sense it makes no sense whatsoever but this is this is uh this is the eternal mystery um this is why it's so difficult to talk about and yet it could be the very center of our beings..."

"can embody god that is um textbook incarnational theology that you can find in any any christian mystic um but you can find it in the mystical tradition of islam and and judaism as well so rumi for ex..."

"so there is some element in which you can conceive of humans or conscious beings or intelligent beings as uh as a tool that the creator uses to understand itself himself do you uh do you think that's ..."

"on and it's we're creating a universe within our universe and for now it's a kind of um it's a basic sort of constrained version of our more richer earth like civilization but it's conceivable that yo..."

"but is that any at all useful to you to this thought experiment of a simulation basically the fabric of our reality how did it come to be what is running this thing is that useful or is it ultimately ..."

"are the archons the second what is this world where transformative means play-doh do you mean in the space of ideas or are we talking about some kind of world that connects all of consciousness throug..."

"so we talk about this being in touch with something that is more real than real and let's just go straight there to mckenna before we return to the bigger picture so he's talked about the uh what is i..."

"someone like descartes reports a dream in which he came face to face with an angel who said that the conquest of nature is to be achieved uh through measure and number so so even the hard-minded mater..."

"it's a hypothesis worth investigating how about that beautiful and and maybe not psychedelics in and of themselves but i think our whole conversation is kind of wrapped up in these non-ordinary states..."

"this using gas chromatography mass spectrometry proteomics technology that doesn't even exist but maybe we can actually test the stone tape theory to figure out once and for all if there's any merit t..."

"university has stood up a dedicated center a team really which is what you need of archaeochemists looking at this stuff but i mean even despite that there have been some remarkable discoveries over t..."

"so he's a scholar of beer and wine and like ancient alcohol which is fascinating they influence even just alcohol but he has like alcohol with um hallucinogenic properties as well but it's fascinating..."

"history his work was some of the first hard scientific data that i saw for the ritual consumption of these intoxicants um i don't think he's ever found the hard and fast data for for psychedelics but ..."

"alcohol even in russia before maybe the 12th century it was in europe maybe a bit earlier but the the concept of distillation just didn't exist and so you know to pack a punch um you know rather than ..."

"midas tomb right the same kind of ritual cocktail which pat and sam at the dogfish head brewery uh resurrected as the midas touch so i mean the notion that we can go back find this data resurrect it i..."

"it's a non-linear path somehow we were talking about simulation and the universe is a computer that's creating video games and wow and uh fortnite but we got there and we'll return always to insane ph..."

"known christianity today was two and a half billion people the big question for me is you know were psychedelics actually involved there was a lot written about this in the 60s john marco allegro the ..."

"years and years i went out to the archaeobotanists and the archaeochemists around the world and i asked a very basic question is there any evidence for psychedelics and classical antiquity and the ans..."

"just outside pompeii from the first century a.d at the right place at the right time when the earliest christians were showing up in italy again these are early steps in the search for evidence in the..."

"absence of ancient greek and i'll give you a very specific example of why i think that's the case you can read the entire new testament in ancient greek and not once will you ever find a reference to ..."

"tied to alcohol right fermented grapes the way we think about wine today so pat mcgovern found some of that early organic data for wine being mixed with uh with beer and with mead but if you look at t..."

"he talks about black nightshade producing fantasias none not unpleasant visions what today we would say is psychedelic so just looking at the literature and the kind of literature that even most class..."

"you can uh you can maybe reframe how you see them in terms of their role in on us thinking about the world understanding the world that's really interesting that language has that power but what langu..."

"letters to the romans um these are greek speakers in these pockets these hellenic pockets all around the ancient mediterranean and for them again ignore discordies ignore pat mcgovern's work to them t..."

"wine as this compound beverage a drug against grief um a medicinal elixir that could either harm or heal or just maybe a sacrament to put you in touch with wine gods old and new clearly religion and m..."

"interpreted and classicist write about this including walter berkert it was interpreted as consuming the god himself in order to become one with the god this is where we get the idea of enthusiasm bec..."

"how we started the conversation right so if we stop conceiving of god as something exterior to us but that the mystery of being itself is the mystery of your being and the mystery of my being that the..."

"the answer to that extraordinary growth is not psychedelics but i do think it's visionary experiences and i do think it's this continuity from the pagan world into early christianity so what part you ..."

"and to experience a a death before your death we talked about this with with terence mckenna as well and this the how the psychedelic state seems to share something in common with the near-death or ou..."

"from death you talk about aldous huxley and mind changers so if we look at the history where the ancients were running to death and maybe using some uh uh performance enhancing permacons [Laughter] to..."

"collective intelligence thing we got going on that's the that's sort of the practice of religion that we should be looking striving for as opposed to kind of um operating in the space of ideas actuall..."

"meaning in science then that's your religion and that's fine but we need to be more honest about that if if you're epistemological model is weighing facts and figures and you think that's why you're h..."

"like very deeply integrated into what's like um into atoms of space time another easy question lex well i mean you have to kind of when you're thinking about emotion and making it concrete into someth..."

"because we've agreed that it's real in the same way and gives us meaning in that same way religion is a set of ideas that gives us meaning but you know real it it's really a difficult for uh for me as..."

"these are the things that govern our lives i mean i don't know a parent who isn't motivated by their by the love of their children um everything i do at 40 years old now is pretty much inspired by my ..."

"still um known as one of the sort of new age atheists so he was kind of trying to explore the role of religion society and the role of science and on the other side another kind of powerhouse intellec..."

"soon and so you know he and i how did that go by the way um it was it was incredible uh carl rock the professor joined us as a matter of fact for one of his rare public appearances so beautiful we wen..."

"just like the ancient mysteries and part of that is perhaps language that we need to continue to evolve language in in how we conceive of these processes maybe religion has a bunch of baggage associat..."

"i do think we get locked up in the language and we're somewhere between science and religion here um including legally so the fda is one route to this what excites me about psychedelics is the first a..."

"to competing in jiu jitsu so the fun is over but i also partake in fasting and there was a very strong there's an almost like a hallucinogenic aspect of fasting because it was especially because it wa..."

"experience what if what if religion is anathema to you what if you hate god what if all these words mean nothing to you and they probably do for many many people and it's perfectly understandable i th..."

"the effect of psychedelics always comes with the integration where you use it just like you said as a catalyst for thinking through stuff it's not it's not going to be i don't even know if google maps..."

"mind uh through technology versus something like psychedelics i wonder how terence mckenna would answer that question um no he looked to shamans as kind of the the scientists um the high magicians of ..."

"around this i don't think you you pop into a laboratory i don't think you pop into a retreat center um from one day to the next i think that in my own case i feel like i've been preparing 12 years for..."

"steers your psychedelic experience that helps you sort of when you take a heroic dose of psilocybin for example help steer you steer your mind say just the right things i mean you could say that kind ..."

"what we socially uh conceive of as as drugs or not and you're right that perhaps we can reframe it as religious experiences all those kinds of things i mean it's fascinating because it feels like ther..."

"getting right back to the very beginning if we are actually to participate in that eternal principle how and when what do you think nietzsche meant when he said that god is dead so there's a sense tha..."

"there will be a time where ai will be the gods we look to uh the the other the the super-intelligent those kinds of things there's a little bit of an inkling of um religious longing for meaning in the..."

"anyway uh but so that's kind of the almost the the the pragmatic the engineering the the physics sense of aliens but there's also kind of a longing to connect with other intelligent beings out there b..."

"very kind of liberating to expand our conception of what intelligent beings are you would like julian janes julian janes writes a great book um the origins of consciousness and the breakdown of the bi..."

"i mean samurais has really been making me uh think about this so you know calling free will and illusion the interesting thing about sam is it's not just a philosophical little chat with him about fre..."

"pythagoras had built one in his basement and would lie down motionless apparently for long periods of time and what i think they were trying to do was tap into and trying to answer this question in th..."

"by trying to fake consciousness so fake it till you make it as an engineering approach i think will work for consciousness [Laughter] you seem satisfied with that i i'm satisfied with that because i k..."

"even before it is understood by the philosophers so i think there's a bunch of things like that in this world that could be engineered before they're understood i think the intelligence is one such th..."

"before 2007. and it was in in hearing about some of the first psilocybin experiments at hopkins and then shortly thereafter i went down this rabbit hole and so the first set of recommendations all kin..."

"we talked about three-pound uh jelly that uh is able to conceive of the entirety of um the fabric of reality in the universe and everything and uh oh also of its own mortality what do you think is the..."

"is primary to the meaning making process versus like some kind of rigorous analysis of like uh having an algorithm that runs and computes and and then finally spits out 42. well this this is how famil..."