
35 segments available
Vikrama Dhiman heads all things product at Gojek, including product management, design, program management, and research, across Indonesia, Singapore and India. He has over 16 years of experience building internet products, consults with Fortune 500 companies, and is among the most well-known and respected product leaders in all of Asia. In our conversation, we discuss: • The most common traits among successful product managers • The 3 W’s framework for PM career growth • The Four A’s of leveling up in product management • The right way to push back as a PM • Common pitfalls that stall PM careers • Vikrama’s advice for transitioning into product management • Why intent alone is not enough — Brought to you by: • Uizard—AI-powered prototyping for visionary product leaders: https://uizard.io/lenny • Webflow—The web experience platform: https://webflow.com • Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace: https://coda.io/lenny Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-pm-skill-development Where to find Vikrama Dhiman: • X: https://twitter.com/vikramadhiman • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vikrama/ • Website: https://www.vikramadhiman.com/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Vikrama’s background (03:56) Three common traits among great PMs (07:09) The first W: What you produce (15:40) The second W: What you bring to the table (18:58) The third W: What’s your operating model? (20:36) Three traits that make you a great PM to work with (21:49) How to improve the quality and quantity of your outputs (23:26) The art of the pushback (26:55) Common factors that impede career growth (33:39) Vikrama’s personal reflections (39:33) Choosing which skill(s) to focus on developing (46:28) The ambiguity of the PM role (51:47) The 8 axis for PM growth (56:57) Contrarian corner: Why intent alone is not enough (59:30) Lightning round Referenced: • Taxi mafias, cash vaults, and 100% MoM growth: The story behind Southeast Asia’s biggest startup | Kevin Aluwi (Gojek): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/taxi-mafias-cash-vaults-and-100-mom • How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-hire-for-measure-and-unlock • Gojek: https://www.gojek.com/en-id • SQL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL • Oracle: https://www.oracle.com/ • Crystal Widjaja on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crystalwidjaja • Raditya Wibowo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raditya-wibowo-a0845436/?originalSubdomain=id • Sidu Ponnappa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sidup • Leveraging mentors to uplevel your career | Jules Walter (YouTube, Slack): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/leveraging-mentors-to-uplevel-your • Kevin Aluwi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaluwi/ • Workday: https://www.workday.com/ • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/ • Small Data: The Tiny Clues That Uncover Huge Trends: https://www.amazon.com/Small-Data-Clues-Uncover-Trends/dp/1250080681 • Originals: How Non-Conformists Move the World: https://www.amazon.com/Originals-How-Non-Conformists-Move-World/dp/014312885X • Thinking, Fast and Slow: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374533555 • Miss Congeniality on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Miss-Congeniality-Sandra-Bullock/dp/B002R5HQDK • Schitt’s Creek on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Schitts-Creek/dp/B083LDRW9F • DramaBox: https://www.dramaboxapp.com/ • Am I Overthinking This?: Over-Answering Life’s Questions in 101 Charts: https://www.amazon.com/Am-Overthinking-This-Over-answering-questions/dp/1452175861/ • Crazy Rich Asians on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Rich-Asians-Constance-Wu/dp/B07JGJFXBF • 9 Best Hawker Centers in Singapore—and What to Eat There: https://www.afar.com/magazine/best-hawker-centers-in-singapore-and-what-to-eat-there Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
Vikrama Dhiman introduces his career growth framework for product managers, emphasizing three key components: what you produce, what you bring to the table, and your operating model. He highlights the importance of focusing on outputs early in one's career and how these elements contribute to career advancement in product management.
"your name has come up more times than almost any other product person when I ask people for their favorite product leaders in Asia I created a career growth framework for product managers which compri..."
In this segment, Vikrama shares his extensive background in product management, design, and program management across multiple countries. He discusses his reputation as a leading product manager in Asia and the insights he has gained from working with various successful product managers.
"heads all things product at goek including product management design program management resarch search and insights with teams across India Singapore and Indonesia he has previously worked at companie..."
Vikrama emphasizes the significance of outputs for product managers, especially early in their careers. He explains that focusing on tangible outputs, such as launching products and contributing to strategies, is crucial for career growth and gaining respect within teams.
"avoid missing future episodes and it helps the podcast tremendously this episode is brought to you by wizard empowering product leaders to ideate and iterate faster than ever before with the power of ..."
In this segment, Vikrama discusses the transition from focusing on outputs to outcomes as product managers advance in their careers. He stresses the need to maintain a balance between producing outputs and achieving desired outcomes, ensuring that foundational skills are not neglected.
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Vikrama reflects on the common traits and behaviors of successful product managers he has encountered. He shares insights on how some PMs achieve rapid career growth by excelling in their roles, regardless of the impact of the products they manage.
"times than almost any other product person when I ask people for their favorite product leaders in Asia and you're also the third guest from gojek so there's definitely something in the water over the..."
Vikrama introduces the 'Three W's' framework for product management growth: what you produce, what you bring to the table, and your operating model. He explains how mastering these areas can lead to significant career advancement and effectiveness as a product manager.
"half I've had the opportunity to work with some really strong product managers learn from strong product managers and some of them have had rapid career growth when I was younger and I was starting of..."
In this segment, Vikrama discusses the importance of execution for new product managers. He advises that early in their careers, PMs should prioritize getting things done and delivering outputs, rather than solely focusing on strategic vision and long-term goals.
"bit more about each one of these W's yeah I would love to I love that you you put the word what at the top and that makes it the three W's which is which is clever because I find even if the acronym i..."
Vikrama elaborates on what constitutes good outputs for product managers. He emphasizes the need for tangible, well-defined tasks that contribute to team goals and how delivering these outputs can enhance a PM's reputation and effectiveness.
"career management ladder so that is is very very critical that as you are producing even when you are at the senior most levels don't forget your IC Roots don't forget the IC component and sometimes i..."
Vikrama shares his personal experiences regarding the impact of working on significant projects versus smaller tasks. He discusses how successful PMs balance their focus on impactful projects while still delivering on essential outputs.
"output but it fell into the overall outcome the way I would I think about what you're describing which I actually 100% agree with is when you're starting out in your careers execution is where you nee..."
Vikrama Dhiman shares insights on the significance of producing tangible outputs as a product manager. He reflects on a personal experience where another product manager excelled in delivering results, emphasizing that being useful and executing well is crucial for career growth. He discusses how early-career PMs should focus on delivering quality work that aids their teams and aligns with organizational goals.
"drive more Impact versus it's not actually that important in in the early career uh so I'll give you my example in one of my previous roles there were two product areas that were important for the org..."
In this segment, Vikrama discusses the second W of PM growth: what you bring to the table. He emphasizes the need for product managers to demonstrate their impact through high-quality artifacts, such as PRDs and strategic documents. He highlights the importance of being a useful contributor and how this can influence career advancement, urging PMs to focus on the quality of their work and collaboration with teams.
"absolutely and it's not just when you are starting off or when you are young even if you are senior and you're starting off with a new team even if you're starting with a new company you need to have ..."
Vikrama elaborates on the third W: your operating model. He stresses the importance of communication, collaboration, and organizational skills for product managers. He outlines three key tenets for effective stakeholder management: raising difficult issues without being difficult, bringing up important topics without seeking personal importance, and facilitating decision-making without making all decisions yourself. This framework is essential for PMs at any career stage.
"model which I feel is the most important thing which you have to have to focus if you are going from mid senior to senior level this is essentially about communication collaboration organizational ski..."
In this insightful discussion, Vikrama shares strategies for effectively pushing back on ideas while maintaining a collaborative spirit. He emphasizes the importance of keeping conversations logical rather than emotional, which helps in navigating difficult discussions. Vikrama provides practical advice on how to push back constructively, ensuring that product managers can advocate for their ideas without being perceived as obstacles.
"yourself I like this list a lot it reminds me there's this product leader I worked with who this team kind of got pushed to do a bunch of stupid stuff and he realized later that like hey I it's it's a..."
In this segment, Vikrama shares insights on the common pitfalls that can stall a product manager's career growth. He identifies mindset shifts that can hinder progress, such as focusing on uncontrollable factors and losing sight of personal growth. Vikrama stresses the importance of maintaining a focus on what you can control to foster continuous career development.
"ensuring that your team is getting unblocked and not getting to do work on anything which is uh stupid or is likely to be changed uh then you really got it do you have any advice for how to push back ..."
Vikrama outlines three critical mindset shifts that can accelerate a product manager's career growth. He discusses the importance of focusing on controllable aspects, maintaining a positive relationship with change, and understanding one's self-perception. This segment provides actionable advice for PMs to navigate their career paths effectively.
"their career any pitfalls do you find are important to try to watch out for I think part of it is on a lot of us in product leadership space we've not done a very good job in defining uh rubrics growt..."
This segment delves into how self-perception can impact a product manager's career trajectory. Vikrama shares personal experiences and emphasizes the need for PMs to critically assess their own narratives. He encourages listeners to seek feedback from trusted colleagues to recalibrate their self-assessment and foster a growth mindset.
"your relationship with change again when you are younger when you're starting off rate of change is crazy you are growing almost every six months you are picking up skills in experimentation you're pi..."
Vikrama discusses the importance of viewing oneself as a lifelong learner in product management. He shares how interacting with skilled colleagues can inspire growth and humility. This segment encourages PMs to adopt a mindset of continuous improvement and to embrace challenges as opportunities for development.
"hyper collaborative person so it's okay if sometimes I'm not very decisive if I'm not moving fast and so on because I'm this kind of a p so it's very important that you check for what are the stories ..."
In this segment, Vikrama highlights the significance of channeling feedback effectively in product management. He explains how to prioritize areas for improvement based on feedback and the eight axes of PM skills. Vikrama advises PMs to focus on high-leverage areas for growth to avoid feeling overwhelmed and to enhance their effectiveness.
"the most uh memorable story about yourself but it is definitely one of the enabling stories as well similarly I think one other thing that I used to say about myself was more that I'm very high agency..."
Vikrama shares his personal approach to receiving feedback, highlighting the importance of being open and appreciative of constructive criticism. He recounts a conversation with Jules Walter about managing internal reactions to tough feedback while maintaining a positive external demeanor, which encourages continuous improvement and learning.
"to the next area then move on to the next area and so on obviously if you are floundering in something if you're really negative in something then you fix that first because that will give you the hig..."
This segment focuses on how product managers can leverage their existing skills for maximum impact. Vikrama discusses the importance of choosing between data, technology, design, and strategy based on one’s background to enhance effectiveness in product management. He shares successful examples from Gojek's PMs who transitioned from different backgrounds.
"will miss there will always be a new context there'll always a new set of stakeholders new company cultures that you have to adapt to for others uh you have to see that what gives you the maximum uh l..."
Vikrama elaborates on the strategies used at Gojek to help product managers transition from various backgrounds into effective PM roles. He emphasizes the importance of tailored approaches based on individual strengths and the need for strong mentorship to facilitate skill development and successful transitions.
"that thread that's really interesting and so the the approach is you have this access of skill sets and you pick for this person moving from say customer service to product here's the two things you n..."
In this segment, Vikrama addresses the confusion surrounding the product management role and how it can hinder career success. He discusses the evolving nature of PM responsibilities and the importance of understanding one’s contributions across various axes, including data, design, technology, and strategy.
"well similarly there's another the person who took uh who was originally from research and again uh worked a lot on our products including our Enterprise product and uh she's doing an amazing job as w..."
Vikrama concludes by defining the unique position of product managers as collaborators across different disciplines. He explains that while PMs may not possess specialized skills like engineers or designers, their role is crucial in coordinating efforts and ensuring that all team members work towards a common goal.
"Kota and I mean that literally I use Koda every day to help me plan each episode of this very podcast it's where I keep my content calendar my guest research and also the questions that I plan to ask ..."
Vikrama outlines the four key attributes that define successful product managers: data, design, technology, and strategy. He discusses how these skills contribute to effective collaboration and communication within teams, and how understanding these attributes can help aspiring PMs identify areas for personal growth.
"can't do them you you see yourself as playing a role and not your title and not your function and that just clarifies a lot of things for uh people and different people will play different roles and t..."
This segment focuses on how product managers can assess their skills across various levels of expertise in data, design, technology, and strategy. Vikrama explains the importance of understanding where one stands in these areas to effectively navigate career ladders and improve as a product manager.
"context uh especially for teams which are becoming more remote or teams where uh people are not collocated or they're distributed that Community aspect becomes a very very important part that product ..."
Vikrama delves into the complexities of product strategy, distinguishing it from corporate and business strategies. He emphasizes the product manager's role in defining how to achieve strategic goals, focusing on user segments and their needs, and articulating a coherent product strategy.
"it's a one of the skills which uh is relatively easier to Define uh where you don't have any Tech understanding like if somebody asked you what is HTTP or API or Internet and you'll be like okay I don..."
In this contrarian corner, Vikrama shares his belief that while intent is important, it is not sufficient for success. He stresses the need for tangible actions and effort in professional growth, challenging the notion that good intentions alone can lead to effective outcomes.
"uh level as well amazing thanks for sharing that I think for people that are trying to craft career ladder for product managers this could help inform the way they think about this by the way when we ..."
Vikrama discusses the significance of putting in the necessary hours and effort to achieve success in product management. He reflects on the cultural shift regarding work ethic and emphasizes that dedication and hard work are crucial for personal and professional development.
"uh with them um second thing I think where I feel that it's very it's become I don't know is it contrarian or it's become Politically Incorrect is that you still need to put in the effort and a number..."
In the lightning round, Vikrama shares his top book recommendations for product managers, including 'Small Data' by Martin Lindstrom, 'Originals' by Adam Grant, and 'Thinking, Fast and Slow' by Daniel Kahneman. He highlights how these books provide valuable insights into product management and personal growth.
"uh we'll have people post in the comments if there's anything else they would love to ask you with that we've reached our very exciting lightning round are you ready yes first question what are two or..."
Vikrama praises the TV show 'Schitt's Creek' for its multi-layered storytelling and representation of diverse communities. He appreciates how the show addresses themes of motherhood, LGBTQI representation, and the journey of teenage girls, making it a favorite for both entertainment and social commentary.
"movie but um also had a pretty good uh uh message I know it's uh probably not the movie which anyone would want to cite it but I think it's um sometimes good to just watch uh good entertainment that's..."
Vikrama shares his approach to interviewing product manager candidates, focusing on brainstorming real product scenarios. He explains how this method provides deeper insights into a candidate's thought process and collaborative skills, emphasizing the importance of aligning product goals with user needs.
"do you have a favorite interview question that you like to ask candidates when you're hiring product product manager especially so it's not really one question but uh what I like to do with them is to..."
Vikrama discusses his recent fascination with short video apps that adapt Chinese TV series into engaging, bite-sized content. He highlights the innovative storytelling techniques and production quality that make these apps stand out, noting their profitability and appeal in the current media landscape.
"Direction which uh usually uh goes in the right way is there a favorite product you've recently discovered that you really love so the reason why I've not watched a lot of the uh drama or TV recently ..."
Vikrama reflects on his late start in his career, emphasizing that it's never too late to pursue one's passions and goals. He encourages listeners to embrace their journeys, regardless of age or timing, reinforcing the idea that personal growth is always possible.
"together on unlocking the lfic aspects of it the storytelling aspects of it the content cutting part of it and even the selection uh of the stories uh part of it and what I'm told is that uh since I'v..."
Vikrama shares his recommendations for experiencing Singapore's diverse culinary scene, particularly the vibrant hawker centers. He highlights the cultural melting pot of Singaporean cuisine and suggests specific dishes to try, making it a must-visit for anyone traveling to the city.
"and do what you want uh right now so good it's not too late I really really like that advice my wife is a illustrator designer she has a book that she put out called overthinking this it's in my backg..."
In the closing segment, Vikrama invites listeners to connect with him on LinkedIn and Twitter. He expresses his willingness to engage with passionate individuals and support their endeavors, showcasing his commitment to mentorship and community building.
"Chinese you'll get that and uh you so you pick what works for you I love that picr I feel like we've produced both a lot of output and we're going to have really great outcomes from our conversation t..."