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David Kirtley is a nuclear fusion engineer and CEO of Helion Energy, a company working on building the world's first commercial fusion power plant by 2028. Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep485-sb See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. *Transcript:* https://lexfridman.com/david-kirtley-transcript *CONTACT LEX:* *Feedback* - give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey *AMA* - submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama *Hiring* - join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring *Other* - other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact *EPISODE LINKS:* David's X: https://x.com/dekirtley David's LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4qX0KXp Helion: https://www.helionenergy.com/ Helion's YouTube: https://youtube.com/HelionEnergy *SPONSORS:* To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: *UPLIFT Desk:* Standing desks and office ergonomics. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/uplift_desk-ep485-sb *Fin:* AI agent for customer service. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/fin-ep485-sb *Miro:* Online collaborative whiteboard platform. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/miro-ep485-sb *LMNT:* Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-ep485-sb *BetterHelp:* Online therapy and counseling. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/betterhelp-ep485-sb *Shopify:* Sell stuff online. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/shopify-ep485-sb *OUTLINE:* 0:00 - Introduction 3:14 - Nuclear fission vs fusion 13:14 - Physics of E=mc^2 18:28 - Is nuclear fusion safe? 23:50 - Chernobyl 30:17 - Geopolitics 32:12 - Extreme scenarios 39:07 - How nuclear fusion works 1:11:59 - Extreme temperatures 1:17:00 - Fusion control and simulation 1:28:54 - Electricity from fusion 2:02:59 - First fusion power plant in 2028 2:09:52 - Energy needs of GPU clusters 2:20:16 - Kardashev scale 2:28:12 - Fermi Paradox *PODCAST LINKS:* - Podcast Website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast - Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr - Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 - RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ - Podcast Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 - Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/lexclips *SOCIAL LINKS:* - X: https://x.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://instagram.com/lexfridman - TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://facebook.com/lexfridman - Patreon: https://patreon.com/lexfridman - Telegram: https://t.me/lexfridman - Reddit: https://reddit.com/r/lexfridman
"- The following is a conversation with David Kirtley, a nuclear engineer, expert on nuclear fusion, and the CEO of Helion Energy, a company working on building nuclear fusion reactors and have made in..."
"that we use today here on Earth comes from the process of fusion. It also is what powers plants. And those plants become oil, and those become fossil fuels that then powers the rest of human civilizat..."
"So first these atomic nuclei are charged. They have an electric these atomic nuclei are charged. They have an electric charge, and they like charges repel. And I think everybody is familiar with that,..."
"electricity built into it without a lot of the steam or thermal system requirements. And so, that's a really nice fundamental benefit of fusion itself. Also, this reaction that's really hard to do tur..."
"humans a bit. - So with Chernobyl and Fukushima, I actually put Three Mile Island in a different category. in a different category. In fact, some of the recent news in the last year is that we're gonn..."
"leaders to figure out the geopolitics of nuclear, nuclear proliferation. ...nuclear weapons, nuclear fission power plants, and nuclear fusion power plants? What's the interesting, intricate complexity..."
"- Okay, so let's sort of return to the basic question, we already mentioned it a little bit, but is nuclear fusion safe? So the power plants that we're talking about, fusion power plants, are they saf..."
"- So high level, what are the different ways to build a nuclear fusion power plant? Can you explain what a tokamak is, what a stellarator is, and what's the linear approach that Helion is using? - So ..."
"to help somebody like me understand what 100 million degrees is like? It seems insane. What does that world look like? I guess just everything is moving really fast. Like you said, you can't put anyth..."
"- And there's a computer managing all this. Like, how do you even program these kinds of systems to do the switching? Is there some innovation required there? - So I'm continuously amazed by what the ..."
"to the directly mapping to the electricity, which is one of the differences between this approach and the tokamak approach? - So how much fusion do you get out from these systems? And that's really th..."
"build, rapidly build, every few years, bring a new fusion system online. In 2023, we signed a deal with Microsoft to build a power plant for Microsoft, for one of their data centers. And this is a pow..."
"interesting intricacies connecting nuclear fusion power plant to the power grid? Like, are there some constraints to the old-schoolness of the power grid in, let's say, in the United States? How do yo..."
"massive amounts of energy. And a lot of times, people talk about it as incident, as in you had solar panels the size of the entire planet blocking all of the sun. But I think really, you should be thi..."
"- When you look out there at the stars, I'm really confused by what's going on, because I think there is for sure thousands, if not millions, of advanced alien civilizations out there. I'm really conf..."