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The art of building legendary brands | Arielle Jackson (Google, Square, First Round Capital)
47 segments available
What makes a great brand? After working at Google and Square, Arielle Jackson has spent the past eight years consulting startups on how to create powerful messaging that works. In this jam-packed episode, she shares how to pick a winning name for your company, create a brand purpose that excites your team and customers, and position your company and its products for success. You don’t want to miss this one! Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-art-of-building-legendary-brands — Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for making this episode possible: • Flatfile: https://www.flatfile.com/lenny • Unit: https://unit.co/lenny • Athletic Greens: https://athleticgreens.com/lenny — Where to find Arielle Jackson: • Twitter: https://twitter.com/hiiamarielle • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ariellerjackson/ • Maven: https://maven.com/arielle/startupbrandstrategy — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — Referenced: • Positioning Your Startup Is Vital—Here’s How to Nail It: https://review.firstround.com/Positioning-Your-Startup-is-Vital-Heres-How-to-Do-It-Right • Three Moves Every Startup Founder Must Make to Build a Brand That Matters: https://review.firstround.com/three-moves-every-startup-founder-must-make-to-build-a-brand-that-matters • What I Learned from Developing Branding for Airbnb, Dropbox, and Thumbtack: https://review.firstround.com/what-i-learned-from-developing-branding-for-airbnb-dropbox-and-thumbtack • Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind: https://www.amazon.com/Positioning-Battle-Your-Al-Ries/dp/0071373586 • Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life: https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Curious-Science-Creating-Business/dp/006238841X • The Vanishing Half: https://britbennett.com/the-vanishing-half • The Mothers: https://britbennett.com/the-mothers • Nik Sharma’s weekly newsletter: https://www.nik.co/subscribe • How I Built This: https://www.npr.org/series/490248027/how-i-built-this • In Depth: https://review.firstround.com/podcast • Unseen Unknown: https://unseen-unknown.simplecast.com/ • Luca: https://movies.disney.com/luca • Encanto: https://movies.disney.com/encanto • Old Enough!: https://www.netflix.com/title/81506279 • The Sociology of Business with Ana Andjelic: https://andjelicaaa.substack.com • David Ogilvy: https://www.oneclub.org/hall-of-fame/-bio/david-ogilvy • Rory Sutherland: https://twitter.com/rorysutherland • Seth Godin: https://seths.blog/ — In this episode, we cover: [00:00] About our guest Arielle Jackson [04:04] From making jewelry as a side hustle to launching products for Square: Arielle’s background [12:32] What makes a good name for a product or a startup [19:17] How to come up with a great name [24:59] How to run a naming brainstorm for the best results [31:09] Bad names and naming mistakes [34:17] Arielle’s brand development framework and when founders should implement it [36:02] How do you know when brand development is completed? [41:17] How long should branding take? [42:42] How to build a brand purpose that ignites excitement [48:51] Specific tactics for building your brand purpose [51:12] How to master your positioning [55:22] Why it’s important to stay niche when you’re mastering your positioning [59:15] The process of positioning and Arielle’s bar test [1:02:38] How to build a brand personality using the five big brand descriptions [1:07:39] Where to put brand and product positioning documents so they’ll actually get used [1:09:14] How startups can get PR [1:14:49] When should you hire a marketer? — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquires about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
Segments Timeline
The Power of Brand Names
Arielle Jackson discusses how brand names evolve to represent more than their literal meanings, using examples like Disney and Volvo. She emphasizes that while a good name can enhance a brand, a bad name won't necessarily doom a great company, highlighting the importance of overall marketing strategy.
"so over time a word can come to mean something that is beyond what that actual word means like disney means magic today you know volvo means safety those names are not good like if i just put it in a ..."
Arielle's Journey in Branding
Arielle shares her impressive background, detailing her time at Google and Square, where she contributed to the growth of Gmail and the launch of Square Reader. She also mentions her experience consulting over 100 startups, helping them refine their branding and marketing strategies.
"hey ashley head of marketing at flat file how many b2b sas companies would you estimate need to import csv files from their customers at least 40 and how many of them screw that up and what happens wh..."
Consulting and Teaching Brand Strategy
Arielle explains her current role as a marketer in residence at First Round Capital, where she assists early-stage startups with their branding efforts. She outlines her focus on naming strategies, brand development frameworks, and public relations for startups.
"them and their customers where they need to go faster if you'd like to learn more or get started check out flat file and flat file dot file.com lenny [Music] this episode is brought to you by unit wha..."
The Importance of Naming
Arielle emphasizes the significance of naming in branding, sharing her passion for the process. She mentions having named over 30 companies and highlights the impact a well-chosen name can have on a startup's identity and market perception.
"roofstock to hear more about how unit enables companies like yours to build banking visit unit dot co slash lenny to request a demo or to try their free sandbox that's unit dot co slash lenny welcome ..."
Creating a Memorable Name
Arielle discusses the qualities of a good name for a product or startup, using the example of 'Seesaw,' an edtech company. She explains how a name should evoke a sense of nostalgia and connection to the brand's purpose, making it memorable and relevant.
"mind you've worked with so many amazing companies uh google square loom patreon front so many others i'm like i don't want to keep going uh what's been um either your favorite or or most unusual proje..."
Positioning Products Effectively
Arielle shares her experience with positioning the Square Reader, explaining how it was marketed to brick-and-mortar businesses. She highlights the importance of differentiating the product from traditional cash registers and creating a unified customer experience.
"think 15 metro areas covered with like the coolest coffee shops and donut shops and everything at launch and um you know there was a lot of fake it till you make it i was like negotiating a deal with ..."
From Jewelry Maker to Marketer
Arielle recounts her journey from making jewelry as a side hustle to joining Square. She explains how her personal experience as a merchant informed her understanding of small business needs, ultimately leading to her role in marketing at Square.
"using it if you recall what was kind of we're going to talk about positioning a bunch but while we're on the topic what was the positioning of that product while we're talking about it yeah so at the ..."
Consulting for Startups
Arielle describes her transition from Square to consulting for startups, detailing how she leveraged her network to offer marketing assistance. She explains her ongoing relationship with First Round Capital and how she helps seed-stage companies with branding and marketing strategies.
"san francisco and la it was like a very small side hustle but it was like my creative outlet and i sold at craft fairs around like hanukkah christmas time so i used to sell and just take cash and then..."
Value-Add Services for Startups
Arielle outlines the value-add services offered by First Round Capital to their portfolio companies, including her role in marketing. She explains how she assists startups with everything from naming and positioning to developing brand identity and launching products.
"and so today you are marketing expert at in residence at firster on capital i was going to ask what what does that mean and what is it that you do day to day these days sure so after i left square i w..."
Key Topics in Branding
Arielle introduces the three main topics of their discussion: naming strategies, brand development frameworks, and hiring marketers. She expresses her enthusiasm for these subjects, indicating their importance in building successful brands.
"first round and he's like would you help our companies and we did a three-month project for one day a week nine years ago and i'm still there i work half time at first round so i do everything i do fo..."
The Power of a Great Name
Arielle Jackson shares her passion for naming and the importance of a good name for a startup. She uses the example of 'Seesaw,' an edtech company, to illustrate how a name can evoke the essence of the product and resonate emotionally with users. A great name should be suggestive, memorable, and reflective of the company's purpose.
"name i love naming i think i've named just over 30 companies at this point um and actually when i mentioned how i got into consulting when i emailed some friends and you know asked them if they needed..."
Evocative Names: The Case of Maven
Arielle discusses the name 'Maven,' which means 'one who understands' in Yiddish, and how it perfectly aligns with the platform's mission of enabling experienced operators to teach their skills. She emphasizes the significance of names that convey meaning and resonate with the target audience.
"i don't know um during covid and my son's school was closed with my older son's school was closed and they all used csa and i got to tell my son you know oh that's my friend's company and we named it ..."
Empty Vessel Names: Pros and Cons
Arielle explores the concept of 'empty vessel' names, like 'Yahoo' and 'Google,' which initially lack meaning but can become iconic through marketing. She explains the challenges of building a brand around such names and the importance of creating a strong association over time.
"names myself but i also i don't know i like i like other kinds of names for other kinds of products too i think it really comes down to what is your product what is your company what is the name tryin..."
The Importance of Connection in Naming
Arielle discusses why it's beneficial for a name to connect with the company's mission or product. She provides examples of names that communicate their purpose effectively and explains how a meaningful name can ease marketing efforts and enhance brand recognition.
"they're they're doable i worked on a company eero that has kind of what is almost an empty vessel name um eero is for eero saarinen who is a designer um he's he did like these really beautiful buildin..."
Criteria for Effective Naming
Arielle outlines seven essential criteria for naming a company or product, including trademark availability, distinctiveness, timelessness, and ease of pronunciation. She emphasizes the importance of a name that reflects key messaging and resonates emotionally with the audience.
"like chrome then there's evocative names which i would say like csa and maven fit into there where they're not they're like in between suggestive and evogative and then there's empty vessel names or f..."
Crafting a Naming Brief
Arielle explains the process of creating a naming brief, which includes defining what is being named, what the name should communicate, and what to avoid. She highlights the significance of understanding the competitive landscape and any additional considerations, such as cultural relevance.
"you write a naming brief and it's really simple it's like what are you naming are you naming a company are you naming the product are you naming both usually if you're an early stage company you're yo..."
The Naming Process: Brainstorming Techniques
Arielle shares her approach to the naming process, emphasizing the importance of positioning before brainstorming. She describes how to conduct a naming session with diverse participants to generate a wide range of ideas, focusing on both word associations and thematic brainstorming.
"trademark which is kind of obvious like can you use this are you violating someone else's trademark and the second step with trademark is do you need to proactively protect the name domain availabilit..."
Evaluating Naming Options
Arielle discusses how to evaluate potential names after brainstorming, using a color-coded system to assess each name against the established criteria. She emphasizes the importance of thorough evaluation to ensure the chosen name aligns with the brand's vision and goals.
"are appearance so there are some names that just like lend themselves really nicely to visual design and you know they have to do with like how tall the letters are and is there symmetry and like if y..."
The Naming Brainstorm Process
Arielle Jackson outlines her effective naming brainstorm process for startups, emphasizing the importance of positioning statements and diverse participants. She explains how to generate a plethora of ideas, focusing on synonyms, antonyms, and thematic associations to create a shortlist of potential names that resonate with the brand's identity.
"go fast through this yeah i was gonna ask you about the brainstorm i'm excited to hear that yeah so the way the way that i run the naming process is i like to first do positioning and then i set up an..."
The Power of a Great Name
In this segment, Arielle discusses the impact of a great name on a startup's success. She illustrates how a remarkable name can enhance word-of-mouth marketing and brand recognition, using examples like Disney and Volvo to show how names can evolve to embody deeper meanings over time, while also noting that a bad name won't necessarily doom a good company.
"that was amazing if you're doing a startup name versus a product is the process any different or is it basically the same no same the only difference is if you have a lot of equity in your company nam..."
Common Naming Mistakes
Arielle shares common pitfalls in the naming process, particularly the attachment founders develop to initial names. She advises using ridiculous code names to avoid emotional attachment and encourages a thorough exploration of names that align with the brand's vision, emphasizing the importance of a name that supports the overall marketing strategy.
"it also takes a little of the pressure off to be honest you know like everyone wants to find that perfect name if you actually think about this happens a lot like you give someone a list of 10 names o..."
First Round's Naming Services
Arielle highlights the naming services offered to First Round companies, showcasing the value of professional assistance in the naming process. She reflects on her experiences with naming firms and the costs involved, reinforcing the importance of investing in a strong brand identity from the outset.
"whole episode about how much i love first round but i will say i'm a huge fan i think i've participated in every program that first round offers the first round review is actually one of the first pie..."
Understanding Brand Development
Arielle explains the significance of brand development beyond just logos and colors. She emphasizes that a brand is defined by public perception and outlines her framework for establishing a brand's purpose, positioning, and personality, which are crucial for shaping how a company is viewed in the market.
"okay i want to transition to your brand development framework which i read a bunch about and i know you teach a course about this which we could also chat a bit about but first i'm curious just like p..."
The Importance of Brand Purpose
In this segment, Arielle discusses the significance of having a clear brand purpose that resonates with both employees and customers. She explains that a strong purpose serves as a guiding star for decision-making and aligns the team towards a common goal. Examples from Google and Stripe highlight how effective purposes can inspire loyalty and engagement.
"as they evolved into a car company but if you look at like their early writing it's so cool like it's so cool like long long time ago they would talk about cars are driven by humans and our job as a c..."
Time Investment in Branding
Arielle addresses concerns about the time and resources required for branding exercises, suggesting that early-stage companies can complete branding processes in a matter of weeks. She emphasizes that the upfront investment in branding pays off by streamlining future decision-making and content creation, ultimately saving time and effort in the long run.
"of myself right now it's time to reclaim your health and arm your immune system with convenient daily nutrition it's just one scoop in a cup of water every day and that's it there's no need for a mill..."
Crafting a Compelling Brand Purpose
Arielle shares insights on how to articulate a compelling brand purpose that captures the essence of a company. She provides examples of successful brand purposes from well-known companies like Nike and Stripe, illustrating how a well-defined purpose can motivate employees and attract customers. She also discusses the structure of a good purpose statement and how it should resonate with the audience.
"down the road is how i would like sell it to a skeptical pm you've sold it that's a sounds like very high roi let's get into it so purpose is the first piece what is that and then what are some exampl..."
Brainstorming Your Brand's Best Self
In this segment, Arielle outlines a structured approach to brainstorming a brand's purpose. She suggests identifying cultural tensions relevant to the business and articulating the brand's best self. By combining these insights, companies can create a meaningful purpose statement that reflects their mission and resonates with their audience, ultimately guiding their branding efforts.
"google yeah that'd be awesome and and by the way is the purpose should it be like a sentence is that the general yes guideline yeah great so you i want you to be you can introduce yourself at a confer..."
Understanding Positioning
Arielle explains the concept of positioning as the space your brand occupies in the minds of your target customers. She highlights the signs of a positioning problem, such as inconsistent messaging among team members. This segment underscores the importance of clarity in how your brand is perceived and communicated.
"awesome amazing okay let's move on to the next part which is around positioning which is a big deal first just like what is positioning and then i left it just like what tells you you may have a posit..."
Crafting Your Positioning Statement
Arielle outlines a method for creating a clear positioning statement by identifying your target audience, their problems, and how your product addresses those issues. This structured approach helps startups articulate their unique value proposition effectively, ensuring that everyone in the organization is aligned on the brand's message.
"other ways you might know that if you have a positioning problem is uh if you can't explain what you do to me in like a sentence that's you have a positioning problem that's a high bar yeah it is and ..."
The Importance of a Target Audience
In this segment, Arielle emphasizes the necessity of defining a specific target audience for your brand. She explains how narrowing your focus can lead to more effective marketing strategies and better resource allocation, ultimately helping startups grow by dominating a niche market.
"how do you go about figuring out your positioning big question yeah so um i start with your audience uh who poses four and we really think about like what's the broadest set of customers or users that..."
Building a Model Persona
Arielle discusses the creation of a model persona, a detailed representation of your ideal customer. This persona helps brands understand their audience's needs, preferences, and behaviors, allowing for more tailored marketing efforts and product development.
"they're not who you're actively going out to try to acquire can ask a couple questions on the person yeah i'm doing some writing and research into this stuff how how specific do you suggest people get..."
The Risks of Broad Targeting
Arielle warns against the pitfalls of trying to appeal to everyone as an early-stage company. She explains that focusing on a specific audience allows startups to build a strong foundation and achieve significant market share, which is crucial for long-term success.
"lot of founders have trouble recognizing that going very focused and niche is a good idea versus like man why am i i'm just gonna have these 10 people in the world that really want what i want what ha..."
Positioning Exercise Framework
Arielle introduces a framework for conducting a positioning exercise, which includes identifying the target audience, their problems, and how your product solves those problems. This structured approach helps clarify your brand's messaging and ensures it resonates with potential customers.
"business and tech savvy dads is a pretty big audience also that's just who your outbound going to try to acquire for the 18 next 18 months it does i'm a tech savvy mom or not i live with a tech savvy ..."
The Four Statement Positioning Model
Arielle explains a classic four-statement model for positioning that distills the essence of your brand's value proposition. This model helps startups articulate their unique benefits and differentiators in a concise manner, making it easier to communicate their message to the target audience.
"leads into this like classic four statement which is not something i invented it's something that's been around for like 40 or 50 years and i learned it when i was 22 and i think it's one of the most ..."
The Bar Test for Brand Messaging
Arielle introduces the 'bar test,' a practical exercise to ensure your brand messaging is relatable and conversational. By simulating a casual conversation about your product, you can refine your messaging to be more engaging and effective in real-world scenarios.
"went to a small business owner and they were having drinks with a friend who's also a small business owner what would i want them to say about the square stand oh yeah i just got the square standard i..."
Brand Personality and Its Impact
Arielle discusses the significance of brand personality in shaping visual design and written copy. She highlights how a well-defined personality can enhance brand recognition and customer connection, making it essential for startups to consider their brand's character in all aspects of marketing.
"so the bar test is you first of all you have to find your target now you pretend to be someone in your target having drinks with someone else in your target at a bar and you have to be able to say hey..."
Defining Brand Personality
Arielle discusses the significance of brand personality, likening brands to people who inherently possess personalities. She emphasizes that in today's digital landscape, especially on platforms like TikTok and Instagram, brands must have a distinct personality to engage effectively. The segment outlines a framework for identifying a brand's personality traits, using examples like Mountain Dew and Rolex to illustrate different brand personas.
"personality that's our next topic it's not something you think about when you think about brand and marketing and plans and and so i'm really curious to hear why i think that's important than how to f..."
Frameworks for Brand Personality
In this segment, Arielle introduces a framework based on Jennifer Aaker's research, which categorizes brand personalities into five dimensions: sincerity, excitement, competence, sophistication, and ruggedness. She explains how brands can identify their strengths within these dimensions to create a unique identity. The discussion includes examples of tech companies and how they typically align with sincerity and competence, stressing the importance of differentiation in branding.
"and so you can just like write it down okay i think a lot of these answers come back to like if you're good with just opening a blank google doc and like writing down who you are by all means go for i..."
Creating a Brand Personality Statement
Arielle outlines the process of crafting a brand personality statement, encouraging brands to articulate their identity through contrasting attributes. She explains the importance of tension in personality traits, using examples to illustrate how brands can express their uniqueness. The segment emphasizes the need for brands to document their personality and positioning in a 'brand bible' to guide future marketing efforts and maintain consistency.
"it's like really boring world so the next step after you do that is to define five attributes like five brand personalities thinking about those two dimensions i like to think about this as a star lik..."
The Creative Brief: Your Brand's Guide
Arielle discusses the importance of a creative brief as a comprehensive document that encapsulates a brand's personality, positioning, and purpose. She explains how this brief serves as a reference for marketing strategies and design decisions, ensuring that all team members and partners understand the brand's identity. The segment highlights the necessity of revisiting this document during product launches or updates to maintain alignment with the brand's core values.
"who we are what do you call this document slash place when i take all those three components and then add a bunch of other stuff i call it a creative brief which is the thing you would hand to an agen..."
Getting PR for Startups
Arielle shares tactical advice for startups seeking public relations coverage, emphasizing the need for a clear and concise story. She discusses the importance of preparing for media inquiries and managing expectations regarding coverage timelines. The segment also highlights the shift towards exclusive announcements and the necessity of framing funding news within a broader narrative to capture media interest.
"story straight all the stuff we talked about specifically around product positioning is so key almost always when someone comes to me and says i'm ready to announce we go back to positioning first um ..."
When to Hire a Full-Time Marketer
In this segment, Arielle addresses the critical question of when a startup should hire a full-time marketing professional. She suggests that the decision should be based on the complexity of marketing challenges and the management of freelancers or agencies. The discussion provides insights into recognizing the right moment for expanding the marketing team to enhance effectiveness and strategy.
"that it's not just interesting and relevant to you and like the three other people who work there at the time but interesting to all the readers of whatever outlet you're trying to target and so an ex..."
When to Hire a Full-Time Marketer
Arielle provides guidance on the right timing for startups to hire a full-time marketing professional. She explains that if a startup faces numerous marketing challenges that require expertise, or if managing freelancers becomes overwhelming, it may be time to bring someone in-house. The discussion also touches on the differences between marketing-driven and sales-driven businesses, offering a heuristic for founders.
"time when should a startup hire a full-time marketing person in your experience when you have a lot of problems that you're trying to solve that would be better solved by someone who knew what they're..."
The T-Shaped Marketer: A Versatile Approach
Arielle introduces the concept of the T-shaped marketer, who possesses deep expertise in one area while having a broad understanding of other marketing functions. This segment explores the importance of hiring marketers who can manage various tasks and collaborate effectively with agencies and freelancers, ensuring a cohesive marketing strategy.
"hiring a marketer and really like what kind of marketer do you need do you need a product marketer a performance marketer a comms person a creative person ideally everyone wants all of that but i kind..."
Recommended Reads for Marketers
In this lightning round, Arielle shares her top book recommendations for marketers, including 'Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind' and 'Alchemy' by Rory Sutherland. She highlights the intersection of behavioral science and marketing, providing valuable resources for those looking to deepen their understanding of the field.
"one it's not really marketing but just like general business the first round podcast in depth is pretty great lenny's podcast i've been listening to is awesome and then my friend um jasmine from the c..."
Influential Thought Leaders in Marketing
Arielle discusses influential figures in the marketing industry, both old school and new. She mentions David Ogilvy, Rory Sutherland, and Seth Godin as key thought leaders, while also highlighting emerging voices like Nick Sharma and Anna Andjelic. This segment underscores the importance of learning from established experts and staying updated with new insights in marketing.
"okay two more questions favorite interview question when hiring a marketing person it's probably tell me a project you're proud of tell me about a project you're proud of i was just really open-ended ..."
Connecting with Arielle Jackson
Arielle shares how listeners can connect with her online, including her Twitter and LinkedIn profiles. She also promotes her Maven course on startup brand strategy, offering a more in-depth learning experience for founders looking to enhance their branding skills. This segment wraps up the conversation, inviting further engagement from the audience.
"much for being here there's just so much jam-packed knowledge i think i don't know if people were prepared when they started listening to this and so congrats on making it through and there's i hope y..."