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The World’s Expert on the English Language — Mark Forsyth
36 segments available
What do Katy Perry, Charles Dickens, and the Bible all have in common? They’re responsible for some of the most famous lines in history. And in this episode, you’ll find out why. Mark, an author and mad scientist of language, reveals the secret sauce to memorable writing: rhetorical devices. Chiasmus. Anaphora. Antithesis. Synecdoche. Writing today (i.e. texting and Tweeting) is concise and hyper-minimal — which is fine, if you’re writing the instruction manual for a new dishwasher. But the most memorable works of writing lean into the beauty of words. It’s not about using overly purple prose. It’s about using rhetorical formulas to create unforgettable lines, to shape ideas that stick in your reader’s brain. If you want to write something that sticks in your reader’s brain — a book, a poem, a speech — then this episode is for you. WRITING EXAMPLES: Sign up and learn from the best writing of all time: https://www.writingexamples.com TIMESTAMPS: 00:00:00 Introduction 00:02:00 The progressio of Katy Perry, Charles Dickens, The Bible 00:05:00 The signal for readers to pay attention 00:05:55 Mark's bestselling book "The Elements of Eloquence" 00:07:25 How we lost the appreciation for rheotoric writing 00:10:30 Martin Luther King Jr's speech "I Have A Dream" 00:11:10 What tactics are "Bond, James Bond" and "To be or not to be" 00:12:45 The memorable (and missing) lines from "Wizard of Oz" 00:14:10 Writing tactic used by John F. Kennedy and Coolio 00:17:45 Mark's cheatsheet and writing process 00:22:55 Rhetorical devices used by Yoda and The Beatles 00:28:50 Inventing words, old slang, and dictionaries 00:32:00 How, smart phones, texting, and Twitter has changed writing 00:37:35 Writing tactic used by Winston Churchill 00:38:30 Most quoted lines in poetry like Alexander Pope, Tennyson, 00:40:15 How readers should read your words 00:45:00 How Shakespeare was a wonderful thief 00:47:10 Mark's writing process for his book "The Elements of Eloquence" 00:54:25 Writing Example (Jerry Seinfeld) PODCAST LINKS: Website: https://writeofpassage.com/how-i-write Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv ABOUT THE HOST: I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. How I Write is a podcast by Write of Passage // Production by Adam Soccolich
Segments Timeline
The Power of Progressio
Mark Forsyth discusses the rhetorical device known as progressio, illustrating its effectiveness through examples from popular culture, literature, and the Bible. He highlights how this technique, characterized by a series of antitheses, makes writing memorable and impactful, encouraging writers to utilize it to enhance their work.
"as a bit in Wizard of Oz fly my pretties fly and everyone remembers that line it's not there what that line is not in the movie The Wizard of O where was this formula used the Bible Shakespeare jazz m..."
Building Antitheses in Writing
Forsyth elaborates on the importance of antitheses in writing, drawing parallels between famous lines from Katy Perry's lyrics and Charles Dickens' 'A Tale of Two Cities.' He explains how these rhetorical structures signal to readers when to pay attention, enhancing the memorability of the text.
"makes things stick in the reader's mind I mean that whole Ecclesiastes bit could be there is a time for everything I mean that's it that's all it actually says but it becomes a passage which is memora..."
The Science Behind Eloquence
Mark Forsyth shares his journey from a scientific background to exploring the art of rhetoric. He emphasizes the need for a rigorous understanding of language and the historical significance of rhetorical devices, which have been overlooked in modern writing education.
"buildup for the great drum fill my favorite book of yours is elements of eloquence I think it is an utter Masterpiece and what initially attracted you to those ideas and writing that book I was born a..."
Rhetoric in Modern Writing
Forsyth contrasts the concise style of modern writing with the rich, rhetorical techniques of the past. He argues that while brevity is essential for technical writing, the beauty of language and memorable expressions are crucial for impactful storytelling and speeches.
"Greeks valued rhetoric so highly rhetoric is everywhere in politics it's everywhere in advertising it's everywhere in poetry how could it be that as a civilization we lost this appreciation for rhetor..."
Emphasizing Ideas Through Rhetoric
In this segment, Forsyth explains how using rhetorical devices like antithesis can dramatize ideas and enhance their impact. He provides examples from Martin Luther King Jr.'s 'I Have a Dream' speech, illustrating how repetition and structure can make messages resonate deeply with audiences.
"and just to confirm what this means is that when I'm sitting down to write if I really want to emphasize something what I can do is I can and I really want to talk about the totality of something I ca..."
Memorable Lines and Their Impact
Forsyth discusses the phenomenon of false memories in relation to memorable lines from literature and film, such as the misquoted line from 'The Wizard of Oz.' He emphasizes how rhetorical figures shape our memories and the way we recall famous phrases.
"free at last alone alone all all alone alone on a wide wide SCA in rhy the Ancient Mariner it's uh again it's just another formula which can make uh makes a phrase memorable you and you can do the muc..."
Chiasmus: A Rhetorical Mastery
Mark Forsyth highlights the rhetorical device of chiasmus, showcasing its use in speeches by John F. Kennedy and other influential figures. He explains how this technique enhances the memorability of phrases, making them stick in the minds of listeners and readers alike.
"okay so this is what you're saying what you're saying is that our minds have memory receptors in certain shapes and what you're doing when you're writing if you want something to be memorable what you..."
Rhetoric in Presidential Speeches
In this segment, Forsyth explores how various U.S. presidents, including George W. Bush and Barack Obama, effectively used rhetorical devices in their speeches. He emphasizes the importance of repetition and symmetry in making their messages resonate with the audience.
"just like that uh here's what I'm noticing with Kay asmus is I instantly think that's true that is such a good point and there's something about the clarity and the eloquence of a sentence that makes ..."
The Role of Rhetoric in Poetry and Music
Mark Forsyth discusses how rhetorical techniques are prevalent in poetry and music, particularly in rap and pop lyrics. He explains that these devices often emerge instinctively, enhancing the memorability of the lines and connecting with listeners on an emotional level.
"overusing the figures of rhetoric I me sometimes you can sometimes you know rhetoric is happening but um you don't really mind it I mean Barack Obama another president did all those speeches with the ..."
Practicing Rhetoric: The Writer's Cheat Sheet
Forsyth shares his approach to mastering rhetorical devices, likening it to a jazz musician's practice. He advocates for internalizing these techniques to enhance writing fluency and creativity, suggesting that a cheat sheet can be beneficial for writers.
"Clause if you can feel the then yours is the world and everything that's in it and what's more you'll be a man my son so when you write do you have like a cheat sheet of these uh no I've got them in m..."
Learning to Write with Rhythm
In this segment, Forsyth emphasizes the importance of rhythm in writing, particularly through the use of iambic pentameter. He provides practical tips for writers to develop their skills and create more engaging prose by practicing rhythmic patterns.
"together in my head absolutely clear and ready to be put down on paper and but also just this whole lifetime of writing if you if you learn how to write imic pentameters for example then your Pros wil..."
Rhetoric in Advertising and Everyday Language
Forsyth discusses the prevalence of rhetorical devices in advertising and everyday speech. He highlights how phrases structured in threes or using repetition can enhance memorability and impact, making them effective tools in communication.
"just uh just do that over and over you can walk down the street saying anything the Geral doesn't have a lot of friends is it doesn't need to mean anything but you can get that whole rhythm going in y..."
The Irrational Nature of Human Communication
Mark Forsyth reflects on the irrational aspects of human communication, arguing that our emotional responses to poetry and beauty often defy logic. He suggests that embracing this irrationality can lead to more memorable and impactful writing.
"anywhere are the same word basically you haven't even done anything but yes advertising is AB absolutely full of rhetoric what I'm getting from this is that so often the way that we write and the way ..."
Intentional Use of Rhetorical Devices
In this segment, Forsyth explores whether writers intentionally use rhetorical devices or if they emerge naturally. He provides examples of anadiplosis in popular music, illustrating how even renowned artists may not consciously recognize the techniques they employ.
"speak with writers who do this well is this something that you notice them being intentional about or do you think it just comes out more I think it just comes out more but I think you can be intentio..."
Rhetorical Techniques in The Beatles' Lyrics
Forsyth analyzes the use of rhetorical techniques in The Beatles' lyrics, highlighting examples of epanalepsis and repetition. He discusses how these devices contribute to the emotional resonance and memorability of their songs, showcasing the artistry behind their writing.
"quite a lot in Paul McCartney yes the uh I mean the lyrics of well as I said there's the lyrics of um Hello Goodbye which is a progressor the one we were talking about earlier but then again uh the ly..."
The Creative Process Behind Eloquence
Mark shares insights into his writing process for 'The Elements of Eloquence,' revealing how he draws inspiration from various sources, including poetry, film, and historical speeches. He discusses the challenges of compiling memorable lines and the joy of discovering new examples of rhetorical brilliance. This segment highlights the dedication required to master the art of eloquent writing.
"out otherwise I would love to quote it was um Taylor Swift came out with a shake it off where it goes um the hater is going to hate hate hate hate hate and the player is going to play play play play p..."
The Beauty of Old Slang and Language Evolution
Mark Forsyth expresses his passion for old slang and dictionaries, explaining how they reflect the lives and cultures of past generations. He shares fascinating examples of historical slang and its significance, illustrating how language evolves over time. This segment emphasizes the richness of language and the stories that words can tell about history and society.
"couldn't fit in are there certain movie writers who have a certain affinity for these tactics uh yeah Quinton Tarantino has an awful lot of it in what way um uh things uh I quoted Zed dead baby zed de..."
Inventing Words and Their Meanings
In this engaging segment, Mark discusses the playful nature of language, including the invention of words and their meanings. He shares quirky examples from 18th-century slang and how certain terms have fallen out of use. Forsyth's exploration of language's fluidity showcases the creativity inherent in communication and the joy of discovering forgotten words.
"dictionary like that tell me more about that you invent words for the things of your life so you go through um 18th centur well 18th Century High women slang thie thev slang it's wonderful but they've..."
Texting and the Transformation of Language
Mark reflects on how texting and social media have transformed communication, making writing more essential than ever. He contrasts the past reliance on spoken conversation with today's emphasis on written messages. This segment discusses the implications of these changes for language evolution and the increasing importance of writing skills in modern society.
"be a great research project to tell the history of some country by looking at say the American dictionary and your research is what words were added in every particular year yeah I mean I remember doi..."
The Fluidity of Language in the Digital Age
In this thought-provoking segment, Mark examines how the internet has accelerated the evolution of language, with words quickly changing meanings and becoming normalized. He illustrates this with examples from the 1990s and discusses the implications for communication today. Forsyth's insights reveal the dynamic nature of language and its adaptability in a rapidly changing world.
"bring these two things together it seems that what texting and internet communication on platforms like Twitter have done is their typing but the the feeling of the typing actually has an oral nature ..."
The Poetic Power of Language
Mark shares his admiration for John Milton's poem 'Lycidas,' discussing its dreamlike quality and emotional resonance. He highlights how great poetry often defies logical structure, appealing instead to the human heart. This segment underscores the idea that the most impactful lines in literature may not adhere to grammatical norms, yet they evoke profound feelings and connections.
"what is it that you like about the poem litus by John Milton H it's just so beautiful uh it's hard to explain it's my favorite poem um it's uh it's almost incomprehensible cuz it's a it's a strange po..."
The Power of Rhetorical Devices
In this segment, Forsyth explores the effectiveness of rhetorical devices, particularly the use of trios in memorable phrases. He references Winston Churchill's famous line 'Blood, Sweat, and Tears' and how the human brain tends to remember phrases structured in threes, illustrating the importance of rhythm and repetition in impactful writing.
"earlier abc1 23 it's easy as do Ry yeah what would that be an example of it be trions I suppose yeah the three things because we love things in groups of three wasn't there an example from Churchill w..."
Memorable Lines in Poetry
Forsyth delves into some of the most quoted lines in poetry, such as Alexander Pope's 'To err is human; to forgive, divine.' He explains the concept of antithesis and how balanced phrases create memorable lines. This segment highlights the significance of structure and balance in poetry, making it easier for readers to recall and resonate with the words.
"through some of the most quoted lines in poetry yeah and why you think they're so memorable to air is human to forgive Divine from Alexander Pope that's a beautiful example of Isa colon which is just ..."
Establishing Voice in Writing
Mark Forsyth discusses the importance of establishing a writer's voice in the first paragraph of a text. He emphasizes how the initial lines set the tone and context for the reader, using examples of how word choice can convey geographical and social cues. This segment underscores the necessity of clarity and personality in writing to engage readers effectively.
"asking me questions and I kept nodding in answer and of course nodding doesn't work on the radio but you forget that you don't you don't have that and writing is like a more extreme version of being o..."
Techniques for Writing Love Poetry
In this segment, Forsyth shares techniques for writing love poetry, highlighting the use of impossible scenarios to express deep affection. He cites examples from classic poetry, illustrating how creative language can evoke strong emotions. This discussion emphasizes the artistry involved in crafting love poems that resonate with readers.
"question therefore of giving the reader at the beginning an awful lot of hints as to who you are what's your tone of voice dropping in Words which locate you geographically and socially and on all tho..."
Shakespeare: The Master Thief
Forsyth reflects on Shakespeare's ability to borrow and transform existing works into something new and beautiful. He discusses how Shakespeare's use of alliteration and poetic structure enhances the original content, making it more memorable. This segment celebrates Shakespeare's genius in adapting and elevating language to create timeless poetry.
"know you know when you're reading a Raymond Chandler that he gets that that voice straight away of of the sort of the hard-bitten detective in 1930s Los Angeles and you can hear it straight off and sa..."
The Art of Last-Minute Writing
Mark Forsyth shares his personal writing process, including the phenomenon of 'stoschka,' a Russian term for a burst of productivity before deadlines. He discusses how he often finalizes his work at the last minute, emphasizing the importance of preparation and mental clarity before writing. This segment provides insight into the creative process and the balance between planning and spontaneity.
"a thief who steals your socks and then DARS them breaks into your house and tidies it up right the literation works so well full fathom five their father lies is a wonderful line from Shakespeare wher..."
Flowing Words to Engage Readers
In this concluding segment, Forsyth emphasizes the importance of allowing writing to flow naturally to engage readers. He discusses how a writer's emotional connection to the text can enhance the reader's experience, suggesting that effective writing should aim to take readers along on an emotional journey. This segment encapsulates the essence of impactful writing.
"well it depends on the book sometimes I get them finished very quickly and sometimes I'm still writing uh very very late on I remember actually with element of eloquence so I only finalized everything..."
Imaginary Conversations: Clarifying Ideas
Mark reveals his technique of talking to an imaginary friend to clarify his thoughts before writing. This method helps him articulate complex ideas in a simple manner, ensuring that he can express himself clearly. This segment highlights the importance of understanding one's audience and the value of simplifying concepts for effective communication.
"thing very fast as fast as I can uh why because I think if it if it flows out of you then it will flow into the reader to some extent I feel if you can you trying to take people along with you emotion..."
The Challenge of Editing
In this segment, Mark discusses his aversion to editing and how it can disrupt the flow of writing. He shares his philosophy on editing, emphasizing the need to maintain rhythm and coherence in sentences. Mark's insights provide a fresh perspective on the editing process, encouraging writers to focus on preserving the original energy of their work.
"this is have a walk and think about the next chapter or the next couple of pages or just how am I going to say this one thing and then sit down and write two pages I also think that the faster you wri..."
The Run-Up to Writing: Finding Your Rhythm
Mark likens the writing process to taking a run-up before a jump, emphasizing the importance of preparation and practice. He encourages writers to embrace the iterative nature of writing, where multiple attempts lead to success. This segment offers valuable advice on persistence and the creative journey, reminding writers that failure is part of the process.
"thought if you say what I mean but you can prepare for all that just by having everything you want to say sort of roughly there in your head before you put Finger to keyboard so this is interesting be..."
The Power of Freestyle: Overcoming Self-Consciousness
Mark shares an anecdote about a high school teacher who struggled with stuttering but excelled at freestyle rap. This story illustrates how the energy and rhythm of freestyle can liberate creativity and reduce self-consciousness. This segment highlights the importance of confidence in writing and the transformative power of embracing one's unique voice.
"and you you just get stuck there are times in life you've got to stride forward if you see what I mean um even if later on you find that your flies were undone but you know you as long as you're fully..."
Talking to Yourself: A Writer's Tool
Mark discusses the technique of talking to oneself as a method for clarifying thoughts and ideas. He emphasizes the importance of being able to explain concepts simply, which aids in the writing process. This segment underscores the value of self-dialogue in developing clarity and confidence in writing.
"not an expert and just trying to how if you can explain something to someone who doesn't know the subject at all then that's then you've got it clear in your head cuz that's just a sort of preliminary..."
Editing: The Balancing Act
Mark reflects on his editing process, focusing on the balance between correcting mistakes and preserving the original flow of writing. He warns against over-editing, which can stifle creativity. This segment provides insights into the delicate nature of editing and the importance of maintaining the integrity of the writer's voice.
"again but editing like like it relates to what I just saying editing I find can kind of kill it if you start just sort of expanding that sentence or Contracting that sentence these should have had tha..."
Elements of Eloquence: A Cheat Sheet
Mark introduces his book 'The Elements of Eloquence' and discusses how he created a cheat sheet to simplify rhetorical devices. He emphasizes that understanding the formulas behind effective writing is more important than memorizing technical terms. This segment highlights the practical application of rhetorical techniques in writing and their significance in crafting memorable prose.
"eloquence yes go through the book and I think you have 21 different chapters or something yeah what I did is none of these names Andis uh Kay asmus these mean nothing to me none of them need to be rem..."
Seinfeld's Captivating Introduction
Mark analyzes Jerry Seinfeld's engaging introduction in a New York Times article, showcasing how he masterfully balances humor and tension. This segment illustrates the effectiveness of emotional highs and lows in writing, demonstrating how a captivating opener can draw readers in and set the tone for the piece.
"waiting to be used yeah mark thank you very much thank you thanks you very much [Music] indeed when I got my first apartment in Manhattan in the hot summer of 1976 there was no pooper scooper law and ..."