
21 segments available
Yaron Brook is an objectivist. Yoram Hazony is a national conservative. This is a conversation and debate about national conservatism vs individualism. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Noom: https://trynoom.com/lex - InsideTracker: https://insidetracker.com/lex and use code Lex25 to get 25% off - SimpliSafe: https://simplisafe.com/lex and use code LEX to get a free security camera - ExpressVPN: https://expressvpn.com/lexpod and use code LexPod to get 3 months free - Blinkist: https://blinkist.com/lex and use code LEX to get 25% off premium EPISODE LINKS: Yaron's Twitter: https://twitter.com/yaronbrook Yaron's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ybrook Yoram's Twitter: https://twitter.com/yhazony Yoram's Website: https://www.yoramhazony.org/ Yaron Brook's Books: In Pursuit of Wealth: https://amzn.to/3qmXuGo Equal Is Unfair: https://amzn.to/3FopKOV Yoram Hazony's Books: Conservatism: https://amzn.to/3sv0Nhe The Virtue of Nationalism: https://amzn.to/3mtxqs6 PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41 OUTLINE: 0:00 - Introduction 2:37 - Conservatism 8:32 - Importance of history 20:35 - Rationalism vs empiricism 26:05 - Communism 34:08 - Otto von Bismarck 38:30 - Edmund Burke and the French Revolution 43:17 - USA's founding fathers 56:12 - Founding documents 1:18:01 - Cohesion and Individualism 1:38:54 - Love and relationships 1:47:06 - Individual freedom 2:01:34 - Having children 2:15:19 - Reason vs emotions 2:22:09 - Nationalism 2:34:22 - Finding love 2:46:09 - Hope for the future 2:51:33 - Meaning of life SOCIAL: - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman - Reddit: https://reddit.com/r/lexfridman - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman
In this segment, Lex Fridman introduces Yaron Brook and Yoram Hazony, setting the stage for a discussion on nationalism and individualism. He emphasizes the importance of respectful dialogue and the exploration of differing views, highlighting the significance of the terms 'nationalism' and 'individualism' in the context of their debate.
"the following is a conversation with yaran brook and yoram hazoni this is iran's third time on this podcast in yoram's first time euron brook is an objectivist philosopher chairman of the iran institu..."
Yoram Hazony defines conservatism as a political standpoint focused on the recovery and restoration of tradition to maintain and strengthen a nation. He contrasts conservatism with liberalism and Marxism, explaining how conservatism varies across different cultures and historical contexts.
"i attended the excellent debate between the two of you yesterday ut austin the debate was between ideas of conservatism represented by yoramazoni and ideas of individualism represented by yaran brook ..."
Hazony discusses the importance of history in conservatism, arguing that it is crucial for understanding the values and traditions that shape a nation. He contrasts this with rationalist views that disregard historical context, emphasizing that conservatism is rooted in the historical experiences of specific communities.
"so iran you say that uh history is interesting but perhaps not crucial if in in the context of individualism no i mean i think i think there's a false dichotomy he presented here and and that is that ..."
The conversation shifts to the philosophical debate between rationalism and empiricism. Yaron Brook argues that both historical context and reason are essential for understanding human nature and political systems, while Hazony emphasizes the importance of tradition and historical lessons in shaping conservative thought.
"the conservative complaint or accusation against uh uh rationalists i mean as opposed to empiricism using rationalism let's take you know let's take descartes kind of as a as a benchmark you'll also m..."
Brook and Hazony reflect on the historical lessons learned from communism, discussing the failures of this political system and the importance of understanding human nature and economic principles to avoid repeating past mistakes. They highlight the need for a principled approach to governance.
"can we walk back to uh criticism of communism you're both critics of communism socialism why did communism fail you started to say that conservatives criticize it on the basis of like rationalism that..."
The discussion touches on Otto von Bismarck and his impact on conservative thought. Hazony explains how Bismarck's policies reflect the complexities of conservatism and the balance between tradition and modern governance, illustrating the historical context of conservative principles.
"side view marx as as one more collectivists in in a whole string of collectivists uh you know and and i think i think the the the bismarck in response which bismarck i mean i know less about israeli s..."
Hazony references Edmund Burke's contributions to conservative philosophy, emphasizing the importance of tradition and historical continuity in shaping political thought. He argues that Burke's insights remain relevant in contemporary discussions about governance and societal values.
"tradition even the conservatives have always acknowledged and it goes back to you especially the conservatives yes the conservatives were there first they they acknowledged well you've you've defined ..."
The conversation shifts to the founding fathers of the United States, exploring their views on governance and individual rights. Hazony and Brook discuss how their ideas reflect a blend of conservative and liberal principles, shaping the American political landscape.
"the founding fathers of the united states are they um individualists or are they conservatives so in this particular revolution that founded this country at the core of which are some fascinating some..."
Hazony and Brook debate the tension between national cohesion and individualism. They explore how these concepts interact within the framework of conservatism and the implications for societal values and governance, highlighting the challenges of balancing collective identity with personal freedom.
"individualism but let me ask the beatles and the rolling stones question about the declaration of independence in the constitution what well because it's like which document beetles are all which docu..."
The discussion delves into the themes of love and relationships, examining how individual freedom plays a role in personal connections. Hazony and Brook reflect on the philosophical implications of these concepts within the broader context of nationalism and individualism.
"i think this is a good place to ask about common welfare and cohesion let me uh say what john don wrote that quote no man is an island entire of itself every man is a piece of the continent a part of ..."
Brook emphasizes the significance of individual freedom in shaping a just society. He argues that personal liberty is essential for human flourishing and critiques systems that prioritize collective identity over individual rights.
"uh so you kind of said this primary the individuals is primary i know as a great invention but to me it's not at all obvious that somehow that uh the invention that humans have been practicing for a v..."
The conversation shifts to the topic of parenting and the responsibilities of raising children in a society that values both individualism and tradition. Hazony and Brook discuss the challenges and opportunities of instilling values in future generations.
"can ask you a question there uh can you make an argument for turn the other cheek no i i tend to i guess you would equate that with altruism i tend to uh injustice it's unjustified now that you all ri..."
Hazony and Brook explore the interplay between reason and emotions in decision-making processes. They discuss how both elements influence political ideologies and personal beliefs, emphasizing the need for a balanced approach.
"country which is uh is approaching uh one birth per woman in other words half of the minimum necessary for for replacement you can say whatever you want whatever you want about immigration we can have..."
The segment focuses on nationalism, with Hazony explaining its significance in contemporary politics. He discusses the potential benefits and drawbacks of nationalism, particularly in relation to individual rights and societal cohesion.
"you're saying central to this morality that people should have is reason yes okay you're not saying other things you're basically saying reason will arrive a lot of things why are you so sure that rea..."
Hazony and Brook reflect on the challenges of finding love in a world shaped by competing ideologies. They discuss how personal relationships can be influenced by broader societal values and the importance of understanding these dynamics.
"you wrote the book the virtue of nationalism contrasting nation states with empires and with global governance like united nations and so on so uh you argue that nationalism uniquely provides the quot..."
The conversation concludes with a discussion on hope for the future. Hazony and Brook share their perspectives on the potential for positive change in society, emphasizing the importance of individual agency and collective responsibility.
"about his ideas and i don't want to talk about ein rand but i want to say something just just one one thing about iron ranch uh all my kids all my kids read ayn rand's books my father read the fountai..."
In the final segment, Hazony and Brook explore philosophical questions about the meaning of life. They discuss how individualism and nationalism intersect with personal purpose and societal values, offering insights into the human experience.
"given how many difficult aspects of history and society we've talked about let me ask a hard question of both of you breathe up until now yeah what gives you hope about the future so we've been descri..."
The final segment explores the philosophical question of life's meaning. The speakers reflect on the importance of creativity, productive work, and the human condition. They acknowledge the imperfections of the world while emphasizing the potential for growth and improvement, suggesting that the essence of being human lies in our ability to navigate and contribute to an imperfect world.
"that's that's our traditional hope we we grow up like that and um [Music] you know so so i i do have hope i i see the trends the trends are terrible right now and uh and and and and it's frightening a..."
Yaron Brook shares his perspective on the meaning of life, emphasizing the importance of living fully and embracing change. He critiques the notion of wasted lives and advocates for a life filled with creativity, relationships, and personal growth, encouraging individuals to challenge themselves and make a meaningful impact.
"terribly imperfect and perfect in many ways and uh and and god created it that way he created a world which is terribly lacking and he created us with the ability to stand up and to say i can change t..."
In this segment, Yaron Brook expresses optimism about the future, citing the inspiring innovations emerging from Silicon Valley and other creative sectors. He acknowledges the cultural decline but highlights the pockets of human spirit and creativity that continue to thrive, offering hope for a better future.
"we can actually go out there and change the world around us we can change it materially through production and through we can change it spiritually through changing the ideas of of people we can we ca..."
As the conversation wraps up, Yaron Brook and Yoram Hazony reflect on the importance of action in the face of evil, quoting Edmund Burke. They emphasize the necessity for good individuals to take a stand and contribute positively to society, leaving listeners with a powerful message of responsibility and hope.
"still alive and well yeah they inspire me as well yeah and they truly live with the capital l and maybe i can do an uh star maybe you can also put a little bit of love with the capital l out there as ..."