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Phones 4u Founder: The Pain Of Becoming A Billionaire: John Caudwell | E124
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John Caudwell is the founder of Phones 4u and one of the richest people in the UK, making his money on the back of the mobile phone revolution, he is worth $3 billion. Perhaps no one has been more open with me about what it took to build their empire, and what it took from them. Topics: 0:00 Intro 01:10 Your early years 10:06 What techniques have helped you become self-aware? 18:01 Criticism vs recognition with employees 22:39 What skills made you great in business? 26:59 How does one build resilience 33:29 Your hardest moments in business 54:33 What was the cost of building businesses? 59:48 When was the moment you decided to give away your wealth? 01:04:48 Your child falling ill 01:15:30 What have you learnt about what actually matters? 01:17:15 Romantic relationships 01:20:39 The last guests question John: https://www.instagram.com/johncaudwell/ https://twitter.com/JohnDCaudwell Listen on: Apple podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-diary-of-a-ceo-by-steven-bartlett/id1291423644 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7iQXmUT7XGuZSzAMjoNWlX FOLLOW ► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/steven/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/SteveBartlettSC Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-bartlett-56986834/ Telegram: https://t.me/diaryofaceo Sponsors: Huel - https://my.huel.com/Steven Craftd - https://bit.ly/3JKOPFx
Segments Timeline
The Cost of Success
John Caudwell shares the immense pressure he faced while building Phones 4u, highlighting the threats and challenges that nearly broke him. He reflects on the toll that constant stress and competition took on his well-being, emphasizing the sacrifices made on the path to becoming a billionaire.
"could you do me a quick favor if you're listening to this please hit the follow or subscribe button it helps more than you know and we invite subscribers in every month to watch the show in person i g..."
A Childhood Lacking Love
Caudwell discusses his childhood and the impact of his father's strictness and lack of affection. He reflects on how these early experiences shaped his understanding of love and happiness, revealing the complexities of his family dynamics and the emotional scars they left.
"[Music] i suppose if i'd had a little bit more love i would have been happier do you remember saying that i don't actually but i can understand why i might have said it why do you think you might have..."
Understanding My Father's Struggles
John delves into his father's background, suggesting that his father's strictness may have stemmed from his own unresolved issues, including possible PTSD from the war. This insight provides a deeper understanding of the generational patterns of behavior and the challenges faced in their relationship.
"to you was that because he was he was suffering with something or he was did you ever diagnose why he wasn't kind to you not at the time but in more recent years probably came to understand it i think..."
The Influence of My Grandmother
Caudwell reflects on the complex relationship between his parents and his grandmother, who adored him but treated his mother poorly. He shares how this environment of tension and fear during his formative years shaped his character and understanding of family dynamics.
"transition to yet a different generation so he put me on an old army and navy shoes from the army and navy store uh which crippled me and so i was out in the streets you know playing football and so o..."
Lessons from a Difficult Childhood
John emphasizes the importance of learning from adversity, stating that his challenging upbringing taught him valuable lessons about fairness and compassion. He expresses gratitude for these experiences, which motivated him to ensure that his own children feel loved and valued.
"i'd be quite grateful for that on one one count uh uh i'd have to wait in the car for an hour while he fixed the car but i knew a you know a couple of shillings or half a crown was going to come my wa..."
The Importance of Self-Criticism
Caudwell discusses the role of self-criticism in his life, highlighting how it has driven him to improve and avoid repeating the mistakes of his parents. He reflects on the balance between achieving results and maintaining fairness in his interactions with others.
"like with your mother and your father and you as a three um well in the early days we lived with my grandmother my grandmother didn't like my mother um i think she was a very jealous person she adored..."
Striving for Fairness in Business
John shares insights on the importance of fairness in leadership, acknowledging that while he was a hard taskmaster, he aimed to avoid being unfair. He reflects on the challenges of managing a large business and the lessons learned from his experiences.
"and very formative days um but you know and you can look back and say i wish you'd been different and you and your listeners might expect that i would say that but i absolutely don't i would never hav..."
Recognizing Patterns from the Past
Caudwell reflects on the patterns of behavior he inherited from his parents and the importance of breaking the cycle. He discusses his awareness of his own temper and the need to strive for better emotional responses in his relationships.
"when you come to understand in hindsight why your father might have been the way he was um or when i sit here with their guests and they kind of they talk about their parents a lot of the time you see..."
Defining Success Beyond Wealth
John shares his philosophy on success, emphasizing that true happiness and making a positive impact on the world are more important than financial achievements. He expresses his desire for his children to be happy and to contribute positively to society.
"satisfaction to me so yes i make lots of mistakes i made one yesterday you know i was irritated with my partner because she interrupted a meeting and then got a bit off with me because i couldn't take..."
The Journey to Self-Awareness
Caudwell discusses his journey toward self-awareness, highlighting the importance of fairness and the lessons learned from his past. He reflects on the feedback he received and how it shaped his understanding of himself and his interactions with others.
"better place as you've gone on that um journey of like self-awareness and understanding who you are and striving to be better in various areas um was there something that helped your journey to self-a..."
Embracing Change and Growth
John emphasizes the necessity of change in business and personal growth, advocating for intelligent and impactful changes rather than superficial ones. He shares his approach to leadership and the importance of making significant improvements.
"all developmental recognizing the mistakes i was making one after another feedback from and understanding those mistakes understanding that what i'd done might have been hurtful or damaging to another..."
The Complexity of Drive and Insecurity
Caudwell reflects on the complexities of his drive for success, suggesting that it may stem from insecurities. He discusses the innate qualities that led him to become an entrepreneur and the motivations behind his relentless pursuit of improvement.
"so do because i can i can relate to that sometimes i feel like i'm a little bit hard and it's usually after the fact when i leave the situation or spend some time alone or i go to the gym at night and..."
The Balance of Change
John Caudwell discusses the delicate balance between making necessary changes in a business and the risks of change for change's sake. He emphasizes the importance of intelligent, impactful changes that can lead to significant improvements, while cautioning against unnecessary alterations that could disrupt the business.
"everybody else now we've all seen the chief executives who've come into a business and they need to do something different than the predecessor and they make change for changes sake and that's destruc..."
Insecurity as a Driving Force
Reflecting on his early drive and ambition, Caudwell explores the role of insecurity in motivating his success. He shares insights on how his innate entrepreneurial spirit and fear of failure fueled his desire to achieve and improve, revealing the complex interplay of pride and insecurity in his journey.
"um to whatever you're trying to change and that drive that you're talking about to be bigger and to be better and to change as you reflect um because in the moment i am i'm imagining that especially w..."
Attention to Detail
Caudwell reveals his intense attention to detail and how it affects his relationships with employees. He discusses the challenges of balancing constructive criticism with recognition, and how his focus on perfection can sometimes be difficult for others to handle.
"of lots of component parts but i think first of all i was born to be an entrepreneur stroke salesman i was born to be that there is no doubt about that whatsoever and and these early attributes showed..."
The Need for Recognition
In a competitive business environment, Caudwell reflects on the importance of motivating employees while managing their egos. He shares his experiences of creating a culture that values performance without inflating self-worth, highlighting the challenges of retaining talent in a high-pressure industry.
"with because my attention to detail is immense and i pick up on the tiniest things one of my one of my directors once said to me in in frustration i might add it wasn't complimentary he uh because i'd..."
Ambition vs. Basic Pay
Caudwell discusses his innovative approach to linking employee ambition with compensation. He explains how he incentivized higher performance by tying basic pay rises to ambitious targets, illustrating the complexities of motivating a workforce in a volatile market.
"saying to my manager yesterday i i was saying i think the balance that i need to be better at striking is i spend too much time focused on possible improvements and not at enough time celebrating curr..."
Navigating Market Volatility
John Caudwell shares the challenges of scaling his mobile phone business amidst market volatility. He recounts a specific incident where a sudden price drop from a supplier led to significant financial losses, emphasizing the unpredictable nature of the industry and the need for resilience.
"themselves then their ego goes up and ego is always a source of destruction ego is never a good thing and it's this balance between making them feel valued but not letting their ego get out of check a..."
Identifying Strengths and Weaknesses
Reflecting on his business journey, Caudwell identifies his strengths and weaknesses as an entrepreneur. He discusses the importance of recognizing one's limitations and the necessity of surrounding oneself with talented individuals who can complement those weaknesses.
"else and putting wealth creation schemes in that rewarded them for long-term loyalty and long-term performance and i did lots and lots of innovative schemes like that to make people feel valued i'd ru..."
Resilience as a Key Attribute
Caudwell emphasizes resilience as a critical factor in his success. He shares how his ability to endure challenges and setbacks has been essential in navigating the tumultuous landscape of business, highlighting the role of both innate qualities and life experiences in building resilience.
"now these guys might be on 250k basic and 250k bonus say so the bonus was really important to them but so was the basic you know and so i played basic versus bonus and versus ambition so they knew if ..."
The Origins of Resilience
In this segment, Caudwell reflects on the origins of his resilience, discussing whether it is an inherent trait or shaped by life experiences. He shares personal anecdotes that illustrate how challenges can either strengthen or weaken individuals, emphasizing the unpredictability of resilience.
"mobile phones the distribution business which we were selling handsets all throughout the uk and just the handsets motorola dropped the price on me overnight having delivered a huge amount of stock in..."
Coping with Pressure
Caudwell recounts a poignant story about an employee experiencing a nervous breakdown due to work pressure. He discusses the importance of recognizing mental health challenges in the workplace and how he supported his employee during a difficult time, highlighting the human side of leadership.
"in my head like what were the skills you had in business that you were really good at and the skills you had in business where you weren't good at like i can look at myself and say okay i'm like you v..."
The Complexity of Resilience
John Caudwell reflects on the nature of resilience, discussing how upbringing can either strengthen or weaken it. He shares a personal story about an employee who faced immense pressure and experienced a nervous breakdown, emphasizing that not everyone emerges stronger from challenges. Caudwell highlights the importance of understanding individual differences in resilience and the need for empathy in leadership.
"whether the upbringing adds to that resilience or detract so i wouldn't really know and some people it will detract there's an old expression isn't there what doesn't kill you makes you stronger clear..."
Empathy and Understanding in Leadership
In this segment, John Caudwell discusses the challenges of empathizing with others who may not share the same resilience or coping mechanisms. He reflects on his own experiences of stress and the pressure of running a business, acknowledging that his ability to handle stress may not be universal. This conversation highlights the importance of recognizing different perspectives and the potential pitfalls of lacking empathy in leadership roles.
"and uh it was one of my success stories under multiple level uh a success story you've rescued somebody but um but those sorts of pressures i was under every day and i never cracked now why was it bec..."
The Early Days of Entrepreneurship
John Caudwell recounts his early entrepreneurial journey, detailing the risks he took while starting a car sales business. He shares a pivotal moment when he mortgaged his mother's house to finance his venture, illustrating the emotional weight of his decisions. This segment captures the essence of determination and the sacrifices made in pursuit of success, setting the stage for his later achievements.
"different way that uh you just feel very lucky that you've got those qualities and rather than criticizing other people that haven't got them try and look at it that you're very lucky to have them and..."
Facing Financial Crisis
In this segment, Caudwell describes a critical moment in his car sales business when sales plummeted, leading to intense stress and panic. He shares the toll this pressure took on him physically and mentally, including the use of tranquilizers to cope. This candid reflection on the challenges of entrepreneurship underscores the emotional and physical demands of building a business from the ground up.
"of the question of the trauma all went well during the summer but as november came sales dropped off a cliff and we started losing money hand over fist because there was just no sales it was a very ve..."
The Emotional Cost of Business
John Caudwell opens up about the emotional impact of his entrepreneurial journey, particularly the fear of failing his mother after mortgaging her house. He discusses the stress of managing multiple responsibilities and the physical symptoms that arose from this pressure. This segment highlights the often-overlooked emotional costs associated with business success and the personal stakes involved in entrepreneurship.
"always done that i've always seen the threat a long way in advance which is what keeps you safe because then you react but it didn't keep me safe physically because you know it put me under enormous p..."
Navigating Business Relationships
In this segment, Caudwell shares his experiences with Motorola, detailing the complexities of their business relationship. He describes how the dynamics shifted as he grew more successful, leading to challenges and eventual termination of their distribution agreement. This narrative illustrates the competitive nature of business and the delicate balance of power in professional relationships.
"uh in the early years of uh cellular we had probably 90 percent of our business was through motorola motorola were world leaders by a long way and uh the the other 10 was a bit here and a bit there th..."
Turning Challenges into Opportunities
John Caudwell discusses how he responded to the termination of his distribution agreement with Motorola by seeking alternative solutions. He emphasizes the importance of viewing challenges as opportunities and leveraging existing relationships to adapt to market changes. This segment showcases his resilience and strategic thinking in overcoming significant business obstacles.
"on the south coast of england with motorola as his supplier so he went from general manager to my competitor by having stripped me of all of my turnover how would you deal with that you tell me well t..."
Partnering with Nokia
John discusses his strategic partnership with Nokia, which was initially struggling in the market. He shares how he leveraged his passion and vision to help Nokia gain significant market share, turning a dire situation into a successful collaboration that benefited both parties.
"because i didn't want to help motorola so another uh another situation occurred where i asked nokia to come in to see me they were they were actually quite reticent to do so um the guy chris jones who..."
The Emotional Rollercoaster of Business
Reflecting on the emotional impact of business challenges, John Caudwell describes the despair he felt upon losing his distribution agreement with Motorola. He contrasts this with the fierce determination that arose within him, highlighting the duality of despair and drive that entrepreneurs often face.
"me you know and if i hadn't been able to find solutions i would have i would have been bankrupt i wouldn't have survived so we got this nokia 101 and we absolutely blasted it out through our retail pr..."
The 10% Rule for Business Resilience
John shares his '10% rule' for business resilience, advising entrepreneurs to diversify their suppliers, customers, and responsibilities. He explains how this strategy can insulate businesses from catastrophic risks, drawing from his own experiences of navigating significant threats in his career.
"email whatever it was i don't know i didn't really know how people were communicating back then because i wasn't alive but you get that message that um motorola are terminating your contract what is t..."
The Cost of Success
In this segment, John reflects on the personal sacrifices he made during his entrepreneurial journey. He discusses the loneliness and grief he experienced over two decades, emphasizing that while the business brought him wealth, it also came with significant emotional costs.
"rule to try and emulate i love that and the reason i i really dwell on the point of like having those moments of like existential terminal risk is because on i feel pretty much all entrepreneurs espec..."
Driven by Destiny
John Caudwell shares a deeply personal story about his childhood vision of success and philanthropy. He explains how this vision has shaped his life and career, driving him to achieve wealth not just for personal gain but to give back and improve the lives of others.
"enjoyable at all a lot of people that i know have said oh this is so enjoyable well not for me it wasn't i mean i enjoyed the success and i enjoyed some moments and some victories but it was almost li..."
Finding Fulfillment in Philanthropy
John discusses the fulfillment he derives from his charitable work, particularly through the Cordwell Children charity. He shares a touching story about a child he helped, illustrating how changing lives brings him more joy than material wealth ever could.
"i am being dragged by that sense of mission towards that north star of the rolls royce giving out the five pound notes or even now with all the charitable work you do you describe it as not being a ch..."
Tilly's Triumph: Overcoming Adversity
John Caudwell shares the inspiring story of Tilly, a young girl with type 2 muscular atrophy who defied the odds to win a scholarship at Stanford University. He reflects on the importance of support systems and the joy of witnessing her achievements, emphasizing that true fulfillment comes from changing lives rather than material possessions.
"tilly until he has type 2 muscular atrophy which stops all the muscles working she actually won of her own absolute brilliance and effort a scholarship at stanford university i mean it's unbelievable ..."
The True Cost of Wealth
In this segment, John Caudwell discusses the deeper meaning of wealth and success. He contrasts material possessions with the spiritual satisfaction derived from helping others, particularly children in need. His reflections highlight the emotional rewards of philanthropy over luxury.
"done everything with grace with spirit with enthusiasm even ending up at stanford university you know six thousand five thousand miles from home i mean it's amazing and joint like that can never be re..."
A Pivotal Moment in Philanthropy
John recounts a transformative experience that shifted his focus from business to philanthropy. After attending a charity meeting for the NSPCC, he became deeply involved in helping children, leading to the founding of his own charity, Caudwell Children, aimed at supporting those in need across the UK.
"you did the penny drop for you that you would your next sort of source of meaning would be setting up coldwell children and doing so much sort of philanthropy and the pledge you made to the melinda ga..."
The Irony of Personal Struggle
John Caudwell reflects on the irony of his own son, Rufus, falling ill with Lyme disease after dedicating his life to helping other children. He shares the challenges faced during Rufus's illness, highlighting the emotional toll and the family's fight for his well-being amidst their philanthropic efforts.
"but what was even more horrible if anything could be was that the child then couldn't do anything about it because daddy would say you don't want daddy to get in trouble do you for showing his love um..."
The Battle Against Lyme Disease
In this segment, John details the harrowing journey of diagnosing and treating his son Rufus's Lyme disease. He discusses the lack of understanding around the illness and the emotional struggles faced by Rufus, emphasizing the importance of awareness and support for families dealing with similar challenges.
"disease yeah yeah it was a huge irony really because all of my kids were very very healthy and i felt hugely privileged and even more privileged when i got involved at the nspcc and saw these tragic c..."
Rufus's Journey: Seeking Help
John shares the ongoing battle to find effective treatment for Rufus, who suffered from severe symptoms related to Lyme disease and PANS. He highlights the family's dedication to seeking help and the emotional strain of navigating the healthcare system, while advocating for greater awareness of these conditions.
"uh uh probably the best part of bay nine years already um we found out that it got lyme disease and we didn't know about panzer pandestan now lyme disease can show as a set of physical and neuro condi..."
Finding Hope Amidst Trauma
Despite the traumatic experiences faced by Rufus and the family, John highlights the progress Rufus has made and the hope for a fulfilling life. He emphasizes the importance of support systems and the potential for Rufus to become an ambassador for awareness about transpanders, turning personal challenges into a source of inspiration for others.
"hemetophobia a whole range of uh of symptoms and lots of others as well anyway eventually we ended up moving rufus down to um from stanford down to l.a where we'd found a whole psychiatric team we wan..."
The Role of Wealth in Health Care
John reflects on how financial resources have played a crucial role in accessing the necessary care for Rufus. He discusses the devastating impact of not having the means to support a child with health challenges and the privilege that wealth can provide in such situations.
"cure you know we're hoping that he'll be able to travel one day soon but for the moment he can just go down we got in this house especially right on the side of beverly hills i mean also wealth comes ..."
Lessons from Grief and Near-Death Experiences
In a reflective moment, John shares insights gained from personal tragedies, including his near-fatal bike accident and the loss of loved ones. He discusses the importance of health, love, and contributing positively to society, emphasizing that these experiences have shaped his understanding of what truly matters in life.
"and and that's thanks to my daughter my ex-wife and all the effort my family have put in alongside jenny frankovich and in stamford and the psychiatrists in uh in la so it's quite a happy result and u..."
Balancing Business Ambition and Relationships
John candidly discusses the sacrifices made in his personal life due to his business ambitions. He shares lessons learned about maintaining romantic relationships while pursuing success, stressing the importance of communication and understanding within a family when one partner is deeply focused on their career.
"well i i i think i always really knew i just wasn't very good at implementing it and that's [Music] just i think loving people caring for society and making the world a better place and i think if you..."
A Vision for the Future
As the conversation wraps up, John reflects on what he hopes to achieve in the coming years, including making a greater impact on people's lives and continuing his philanthropic efforts. He expresses a desire for meaningful connections and contributions to society, highlighting the importance of love and respect in all relationships.
"thought that could happen to you well that's a perfect note to end on and that's really why i started this podcast at the end of the day is to shine that much more realistic light on the pursuit of bu..."