"what is the heroic action for scientists in nazi germany science in many respects actually is a full collaborator in the most horrific forms of nazi genocide nazi exclusion what goes to the mind of a ..."

"support it please check out our sponsors in the description and now dear friends here's robert proctor what is the story of science and scientists doing the rise rule and fall of the third reich well ..."

"science if you can just linger on it longer well we tend to think of science and ideology as completely separate when i think the reality is there is there not if you look at why the mayans in the 7th..."

"especially if they're narrow technocrats you know if they're just doing their job if they're just building the widget and i think a lot of scientific training is in widget widget building and that lea..."

"was made uh originally what can you talk about him a little bit more because he's such a fascinating character because he so he's he was a nazi but he was also an american and it had such a grand impa..."

"the room and make it's it's exactly like you said the enlightenment i think that excites the the scientists of course as a charismatic person you have to know what to pick in terms of what excites you..."

"those ideologies are pretty powerful i mean they and i think it's not even the the reason that matters as much as the power of the dream of the vision of the enlightenment i mean the vision of communi..."

"science and you also talk about nazi germany as a singular moment in time or like a a rebirth of the integration between ideology and science so the like um in terms of valueless science i think is th..."

"many scientists and physicians were willing to work for the nazi regime for multiple reasons partly because a lot of them really thought they were you know doing the lord's work they thought they were..."

"racial form and that this required this kind of cleansing process and the cleansing meant getting rid of the physically handicapped it meaning getting rid of racial inferiors as they imagined them it ..."

"multiple levels and so you see how easy it is for people to fall into that given a particular theory and again coming back to that earlier sort of point about the scarecrow which i think is very impor..."

"united states way before the nazis one of the first things the nazis do from a racial hygiene point of view is start sterilizing what they call the mentally ill and the physically handicapped well tha..."

"basis but in general i think it's it's usually better to add on rather than subtract in other words to add history rather than erase history or pretend as if history had never existed let me let me gi..."

"i think is is a big big mistake can't look at that point so i haven't gotten through it yet but i've been trying to get to minecomp and you know throughout his history has been taken down and up it ac..."

"i mean it's uh not well written so you can maybe convince yourself that it's okay because it's not well written so it's not it's not like this inspiring book of ideology that could easily convince but..."

"that's what needs to be exposed the other thing i worry about which is relevant to your question again it's a billion or trillion dollar question is uh we're ki i think in a world of kind of flattenin..."

"where everyone has equal power it forces the people who are quote-unquote experts to be better communication i think people like scientists are just like upset that they have to do like better work at..."

"are important yeah there's so many good points there the on the scientists becoming good communicators the history of scientists becoming bad communicators has a history and the last original contribu..."

"and so you get that combined with just the rise of the research lab and the ever narrower uh widget builders the cogs and the machine it's not surprising that people might not trust certain aspects of..."

"let's just stay uncovered for a brief moment and talk about a particular leader that i think about is anthony fauci i've thought about whether to talk to him or not i have my own feelings about anthon..."

"his decisions is it politics or science and the broader question i have what does it take to be a great scientific leader in difficult times like these and maybe you could say nazi germany was similar..."

"be honest be authentic be real put yourself out there don't play the pr game don't play politics just get excited about the widget building that you love communicate that and think about the difficult..."

"leaders take take care of the responsibility so when you're saying that he's um doing the best job he can i would say he's doing a reasonable job but not the best job he can yeah well i don't know wha..."

"like not i guess i'll take it to a question about nazi germany what is the heroic action for a scientist in nazi germany like to stand to see what's right when uh you're under this cloud of ideology y..."

"um you know maybe it's uh going back in to the british empire which had a giant empire and and germany wanted a big empire too right and that part of the history of world war one is is often often for..."

"i mean part of the problem in science is that we don't look enough at what i call the causes of causes so cigarettes cause cancer but what causes cigarettes yeah so the deeper yeah yeah so obesity cau..."

"realms open there's going to be new possibilities uh and that's it's kind of like looking at uh uh the flip side of fascism and the kind of things the discoveries they made that have been ignored that..."

"narratives you mentioned tobacco obesity with sugar there's been narratives throughout the history and it's very um there are certain topics on which it's um easy to almost become apathetic which beca..."

"but we as sort of individualistic americans think that the fish pulled itself up by his booster holds itself up by his bootstraps right and whatever you know gumption and and uh courage you know made ..."

"so we're in a world this bizarro world where every night there's a covid report and cigarettes would never be mentioned cigarettes would no more likely to be mentioned than if we were talking about ch..."

"fish that move themselves in other words there's not really a tobacco industry there's just people who smoke and that's a personal choice like what food we're going to have for dinner tonight and so i..."

"even when you see an ad against cigarettes on television that's dramatically curtailed because the law that made those even possible required that there be there's an anti-villainy clause the industry..."

"tobacco executive this is connecting to our previous conversations of scientists and so on i always wonder about that i talked to pfizer ceo for example and there's a deep question with the pfizer ceo..."

"but there's another view where you might um that kind of idea of making money pollution is the widget building it is exciting when you can release a product that makes a lot of money and you start enj..."

"it's one i've thought about a lot it's one you think about with in in any context of horror how do people live with themselves how do they get up in the morning i think there's a lot of incentives one..."

"difference between me doing and someone else so that's one view another one is the tobacco industry i think really doesn't like their customers except for the fact that they like their their money whe..."

"maybe it's a personal choice maybe they're libertarians maybe they're just as you said seduced by the money and the money is enormous the money is enormous and these these the you know tobacco executi..."

"us and i even found evidence that the tobacco industry lies to its own employees so they censored their own employee information so that everyone would be on board that well maybe it doesn't really ca..."

"for buying virginia slim cigarettes so the industry is able to acquire this talent and then through a kind of a an application of causality purely into the individual smoker if you smoke you did it to..."

"well there's been in my view not that much progress to the tobacco industry basically won the war against cigarettes in the 1950s the broader assumption inside and outside the industry would be what w..."

"before i mean okay so culturally speaking i grew up in soviet union uh everybody smoked everybody smoked well by everybody you mean about half well by everybody i mean culturally so so what does it fe..."

"which is about 240 billion cigarettes wow now globally the number has increased see but but the perception and sorry to interrupt but the that's interesting even in the united states the numbers the d..."

"minute if if the smoke can hurt the tapes can it hurt my lungs as well and so some of these early laws already in the late 70s early 80s pushing it out was a huge struggle the tobacco industry marshal..."

"that's actually where i learned about uh the idea that we could get rid of cigarettes entirely was just from talking to ordinary smokers those are the people who are willing to say you know let's let'..."

"one of the things we can get rid of let's come back to nazi germany for a time you uh also wrote the book titled the nazi war on cancer right what is the main storyline and thesis of this book well i ..."

"journal that would have a joking section where they'd say oh we found a cow with a swastika on his forehead a natural black swastika isn't that funny you know or i'd find stories about tobacco i find ..."

"taboo of talking about the big eugenics i'd already been as a kind of a radical graduate student at harvard working with all the the marxist biologists there we'd already had a critique of eugenics an..."

"that's why i'm interested in probing i mean history is about seeing the universal through the particular in a way and so you look for the weird particular and then pull at that string to see if there'..."

"and it just makes me feel better well i think fasting is way undervalued i mean where do we get the idea you need three meals a day i have a friend at harvard and he he'll go seven or eight days perio..."

"uh of minimalism of removing things from your life of of seeking especially for me being like ocd and and a scientist i i do like this simplification of things of the this taxonomy things i just recen..."

"bitcoin is losing your password i know a friend his son you know mined i don't know how many dozens of bitcoins and and lost his password you know and so what can he do and there's a whole i think sil..."

"one of the things that's ignored i'm very interested in things that are ignored and one of the things that we ignore now on on something even like the climate catastrophe is the role of the military i..."

"very careful with for me artificial intelligence is uh you know much of the darpa research on autonomous vehicles and all kinds of robotics drones i mean that's pure research some of the biggest disco..."

"rarely taught in universities is what would you not do for money right i mean in a basic class on machine learning or even statistics or history what would you not do for money what should you not do ..."

"but like subtle stuff just pressures and it could be with like let me buy you a drink and just you know laugh about stuff become friends that's a subtle pressure i'm very upset with how many people wo..."

"rejuvenated and reinvigorated by something called the philip morris external research program which continued with the same facts lines and executives funding universities like stanford millions and m..."

"universities are less democratic than the vatican you know the at least the pope is elected who elects uh you know a president of a university or a dean for that matter and so what happened was uh i h..."

"where you explore the topic of ignorance or the authors explore the topic of ignorance in different applications in different contexts oh let me ask the ridiculous big philosophical question what is t..."

"archaeological project and a genealogical project where we look back and and we find traces and and it's very biased uh i'm interested in in empires that we don't even know anything about you know and..."

"of um create doubt in the mind exactly it's diabolical and luckily we have some of the tobacco industries own internal documents the one that is ones that were not destroyed and we actually know we ha..."

"was hidden covered up through a distraction process richard nixon declares war on cancer in 1971 it's called the war on cancer cigarettes were excluded even though cigarettes caused a third of all can..."

"when we say that carbon causes climate change well what causes carbon if it's exxon causing carbon is it the person driving the car causing it or is it the republican party causing that or is it the t..."

"attack or defend marxism feminism and other social movements using science there's a you know depending on who you talk to i just spent a day with jordan peterson you know there's some arguments that ..."

"now we're in a period now i think of a kind of inclusive revolution where people are realizing well we can't have you know universities that look too much a certain way there's probably going to be in..."

"ask the question where is the power in the university i think that uh like at mit the entire administration should get fired regularly and and more power put in the hands of faculty and students there..."

"human influence our theories of human origins and in particular there's sort of the problem with of what i call like sodomy in the uncanny valley which is how long ago would you be willing to date som..."

"because all of our complex atoms began in supernovas many billions of years ago but upright posture 5 million agriculture only a few thousand years ago we cultivate dogs a couple hundred thousand year..."

"idea so it's not you come up with ideas and you we become able to sort of understand what each other is thinking some animals can do this to a certain extent dogs have a certain empathy but it's it's ..."

"and not just a bug it's like those mice that can't forget they go insane right if you imagine all of your memories as present yeah that's that's a recipe for insanity you have to to forget to learn ri..."

"physical qualities of objects sometimes it's called material culture but it's just stuff and i'm interested to know how different cultures have manipulated stuff worked stuff stone wood things like th..."

"becomes a hobby and so hobbies become this so-called job you can't lose in the great depression in the 1930s and then they explode um and so when i was a kid people would collect coins or stamps or fo..."

"yeah it does kind of uh i mean when did that originate just the collection the white it goes through different stages people have always gathered the odd thing to make something else but you also get ..."

"like libyan glass another thing i collect is libyan glass which is a tectite which falls as a result of a meteorite a meteorite hits the earth blasts earth up into space it falls back down as a glass ..."

"there's very likely trillions of uh conversations going on like this on other planets yeah in different yeah no doubt that's exactly there were different kinds of drugs different communication styles ..."

"about it's it's very possible that there's not anywhere in the universe an organism with two legs and two arms with two eyes and mostly hairless walking around at this time scale but like well there c..."

"another that should be nfc that's right so the other thing i fantasize about is how pattern recognition technology will probably in the future allow us to discover all kinds of amazing stones includin..."

"percussion zone or how do you know that a signal from out of space is an intelligent signal and as opposed to hydrogen doing something or some natural thing that's the genuine problem of intelligent d..."

"throughout science you have this problem of signal it just because something is beautiful doesn't mean it was i mean that's that's not a good signal to determine if it's intelligent design or natural ..."

"explosion or the big bang of the mind that produces a kind of ability to to see in the distance to identify a shape in an object to create a shape and an object that you don't get the neandertals don'..."

"types of professional rewards also influence science and what kind of science gets done yeah so i'm always suspicious of uh and as we should all be when you can kind of intuit a financial and otherwis..."

"something new just like you mentioned uh with the hominids and i'm very suspicious of where there's like a strange hunger for ideas because then they're they're less likely to be objective and rigorou..."

"pretty exciting yeah there's some new theories of how it actually might because i think i mean there's obviously several ways to prove that like one of them is to recreate in the lab which is standard..."

"if you're uh if if humans are all a lesson that we produce like more trash than we do intelligent signal and so the first thing to reach other civilizations i feel like would be our trash our pollutio..."

"lamarckian theories of heredity and rejected that part of darwin when they're right next to each other at the very same time there must be a connection and so i started reading into this and i was act..."

"yeah i mean the other thing was i was trying to figure out where to go for for a fulbright on a different year and i want to go to china and turns out you could only go to taiwan i didn't really want ..."

"you never fully know a language you know we don't fully know english um there's always more to learn i'm always learning new i i didn't know the word done last year d-u-n i mean some kind of brown col..."

"and they developed a lot of these rhetorical tricks that were later used by the americans like oh you can't trust that evidence it's merely statistical you can't trust the animal experiments because a..."

"right the movies it's called meat cute they the tobacco industry when they put cigarettes into a movie they put it in right at the moment where boy meets girl let me ask you just in all the research y..."

"elderly people people who had sort of slipped through the cracks you know maybe even should have been prosecuted so few people got prosecuted um but these were people who had racial theories who publi..."

"kinds of things give me hope the the forest gives me hope the wicked nature wikipedia gives me hope space exploration gives me hope all kinds of things give me hope the i had this insight the other da..."

"years from now you'll get these restoration of all of this magnificent uh old growth um but so many other things you know give me hope you know we have to have hope and i think that uh if the world is..."

"adolescent fuck-ups i mean we're a thin layer on the crust and you know eventually the earth will be swallowed by the sun and humans won't it will have long gone extinct by then um but yeah there's al..."

"bait and people get hooked but uh you know the fish don't have heads we have heads one of the great innovations in the history of humanity going back way priming is the invention of the head the mobil..."

"i'm fascinated by the meteorite that wiped out everything bigger than four feet long you know the the mount everest size meteorite that hit the earth 66 million years ago and destroyed most species in..."