
57 segments available
Ever thought to yourself, “I would love to write a memoir someday”? Then you’re in the right place. Rob has an exceptional story — from foster care to Yale, from a troubled childhood to a best-selling memoir called Troubled — and in this episode, he demystifies the memoir-writing process just for you. We cover questions like: Which stories are worthy of sharing? How do you pace the narrative? How do you excavate difficult memories? How do you balance the emotional highs with the lows? Buckle up, and get ready to learn how to write a gripping memoir. WRITE OF PASSAGE: Want to learn more about the next class for Write of Passage? https://writeofpassage.com/ SPEAKER LINKS: Newsletter: https://www.robkhenderson.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/robkhenderson Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robkhenderson/ Book: https://www.amazon.com/Troubled-Memoir-Foster-Family-Social/dp/1982168536 TIMESTAMPS: 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:20 Why Rob decided to write a memoir 00:04:15 What Rob learned by writing a memoir 00:05:30 Selecting your core themes 00:07:00 Who am I in this story? 00:07:45 Voice of Innocence vs Voice of Experience 00:10:00 What is Rob's editing process 00:12:20 Good writing can be one sentence, phrase, anecdote 00:14:30 Why you should not making yourself look good 00:19:20 How to decide which stories are worthy 00:23:00 The power of emotional variance 00:24:20 How your voice changes over a lifetime 00:28:00 How much honesty is needed in your memoir 00:29:00 Which stories are the hardest to include 00:33:20 What stories you should keep vs cut 00:38:40 How to write about difficult experiences 00:44:55 What makes good dialogue 00:50:35 What JD Vance taught Rob about writing 00:54:40 Why Tara Westover told Rob to "Break the spell" 00:58:55 How to end a memoir 01:01:45 Elite environments and luxury beliefs 01:04:25 What's the point of writing a preface 01:19:25 What to know before writing your memoir 01:25:20 How Rob would teach a writing class PODCAST LINKS: Website: https://writeofpassage.com/how-i-write Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv ABOUT THE HOST: I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible.
Rob Henderson introduces the concept of memoir writing by emphasizing the importance of understanding one's role in the narrative. He discusses the trepidation that often accompanies sharing personal stories and suggests that the more hesitant one feels about a memory, the more it should be included in the memoir. This segment sets the stage for the exploration of personal storytelling and the emotional journey involved.
"when you're writing Memoir the question isn't who am I but who am I in this story how do you do this break it down people like to make themselves look good perhaps look better than they really are so ..."
Rob shares his journey of deciding to write his memoir, 'Troubled.' He reflects on his experiences in college, the shock of others upon hearing his life story, and the realization that he belonged to a segment of society disconnected from his past. This segment highlights the motivations behind his writing and the urgency he felt to share his story sooner than expected.
"Rob why did you decide to write this book we'll get going with some momentum here by the time I got to college um I started to interact with a lot of different people and and over time I would divulge..."
In this segment, Rob discusses the advantages of writing his memoir at a young age. He reflects on the clarity of his childhood memories and the importance of having friends and family to corroborate his experiences. This insight emphasizes the value of capturing memories while they are still fresh, providing a unique perspective on the memoir-writing process.
"nervous about it because you know writing a I mean I think started writing the book I was 29 or 30 and it I felt a little um you know it's it's it's immodest to write a book at such a young age right ..."
Rob shares the lessons he learned about writing memoirs, including the misconception that it would be similar to writing personal essays. He emphasizes the need for a cohesive theme and the importance of connecting each story to that theme. This segment provides valuable insights into the structure and purpose of memoir writing.
"vividness just what my Early Childhood was like and I also had the benefit of having my friends you know when you're very old a lot of your friends are dead and you know I've talked to people who've w..."
Rob discusses the core themes of his memoir, focusing on family instability, social class, and the impact of these factors on his life. He articulates the significance of these themes in understanding his experiences and the broader implications for social mobility. This segment underscores the depth of his narrative and the critical issues addressed in his writing.
"memoir is not just a a loose heap of anecdotes of just here's this thing that happened to me here's this other thing um and then and then and then and then you get to the end right rather a memoir is ..."
In this segment, Rob explores the concept of writing from the 'voice of innocence' versus the 'voice of experience.' He explains how he aimed to bring readers into his childhood perspective, allowing them to experience events as he did at the time. This discussion highlights the narrative technique that enhances the emotional connection with readers.
"the repeated instability moving to different homes divorces separations remarries Financial catastrophes um often adults making uh poor decisions and then later as a result of that making poor decisio..."
Rob shares his approach to excavating difficult memories for his memoir, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and vulnerability. He discusses the emotional challenges of revisiting painful experiences and how these memories shape the narrative. This segment provides insight into the emotional labor involved in memoir writing.
"story H and I thought about that for a long time and I realized that I was approaching the book entirely wrong I thought I was going to write this kind of retrospective account oh back when I was a ki..."
Rob discusses his editing process, focusing on how he centered his memoir around specific themes. He explains the importance of cutting unnecessary content that does not serve the narrative's core message. This segment offers practical advice for aspiring memoirists on maintaining thematic coherence in their writing.
"was with my mom um living in a slum apartment in La um the feeling that I had the only two memories of being taken from her by the police placed into foster care um seeing her in handcuffs uh the emot..."
In this segment, Rob highlights the significance of concise anecdotes in memoir writing. He illustrates how a single sentence can convey a wealth of information about experiences, emphasizing the art of storytelling. This discussion provides valuable insights into effective writing techniques that engage readers.
"process to say if it doesn't connect to those things I'm going to cut it yeah yeah I mean I yeah I wanted to Center the entire story around these themes around family around class social mobility and ..."
Rob reflects on his military experiences, contrasting the mundane realities of training with the dramatized portrayals in movies. He discusses the challenge of conveying the true essence of military life in his memoir while keeping the narrative engaging. This segment sheds light on the balance between authenticity and reader interest.
"these themes you know does this pointless interaction matter you know because I think I tell maybe one or two very um you know kind of amusing but also um uh you know foolish stories of me drinking wh..."
Rob explores the concept of time in memoir writing, discussing how certain events are expanded or contracted in the narrative. He emphasizes the importance of emphasizing significant moments while maintaining a realistic portrayal of experiences. This segment delves into the intricacies of storytelling and the manipulation of time.
"training is actually like is just so yeah but yeah that what you just said here's how you make a bed with perfect Corners what's really interesting what you unintentionally just did was you shared an ..."
Rob discusses the importance of authenticity in memoir writing, particularly in avoiding the temptation to portray oneself in an overly positive light. He shares examples of how he chose to highlight moments of vulnerability and failure instead of triumph. This segment emphasizes the value of honesty in personal storytelling.
"in real life versus you know 45 seconds in a movie and yeah and it's like that with writing you know I have to communicate very quickly here's what uh training was like here's what day-to-day life was..."
In this segment, Rob reflects on the importance of authenticity in memoir writing, particularly the need to avoid portraying oneself as overly heroic. He shares personal stories of violence and loss, explaining why he chose to focus on moments of vulnerability rather than victories, and how this choice aligns with the overall themes of his memoir.
"the other thing that you were conscious about was not making yourself look too good taking out stories that made you look like wow I'm Rob Henderson tell me about that well I mean so again you know I ..."
Rob shares a harrowing story from his childhood about nearly drowning, contrasting the dramatic portrayal of drowning in movies with the stark reality. He discusses the emotional weight of this experience and how it reflects the neglect he faced in his foster care environment, providing insight into the complexities of his upbringing.
"story of winning some fight what does it communicate what's the point and so and funny enough you know the the fights that made some kind of difference in my life or um had kind of supported the gener..."
Rob recounts a pivotal moment from his childhood when he saved a girl from drowning at a birthday party. He reflects on the significance of this act, the lack of recognition it received at the time, and how it later became a meaningful story in his memoir. This segment highlights the theme of unexpected heroism in everyday life.
"and you know drowning doesn't look like it does in the movies you know people think of drowning and like oh you're splashing and flailing and screaming for help what real drowning typically looks like..."
In this segment, Rob explains his method for selecting which stories to include in his memoir. He emphasizes the importance of emotional resonance and vulnerability, suggesting that the stories that evoke the strongest feelings are often the most valuable. He discusses the iterative process of refining his narrative to align with the book's core themes.
"I tell other stories these interactions that I had with her but later about let's see so I was seven then so I was N9 n and a half uh after I was adopted I was at this party and so I I told this story..."
Rob discusses the significance of emotional honesty in memoir writing, particularly the stories that make him feel vulnerable. He shares insights on how fear and trepidation can guide the selection of stories, arguing that the most impactful moments are often those that challenge the writer's comfort zone.
"that you know I put it in there because of my own ego you know I tried to maybe stretch this connection with oh I drowned and then I learned this lesson and helped someone else or but that's not what ..."
Rob outlines his editing process, which involves seeking feedback from fellow writers. He explains how he uses their insights to refine his stories, emphasizing the importance of consensus among multiple readers to determine which narratives resonate and which should be cut. This segment highlights the collaborative nature of writing.
"other thing was it was kind of a darwinian process writing this book where of course like I would give it a first pass as after I put all the stories down I would go through okay do I like this story ..."
Rob shares his approach to pacing in memoir writing, aiming to balance emotional highs and lows throughout the narrative. He discusses how starting with a positive moment can set the tone for the reader, allowing them to engage with the more challenging aspects of his story while maintaining hope for a resolution.
"trusting that um you know that idea of of uh that interrater reliability of multiple people giving the same kind of advice I would follow and the pacing tell me about that so I knew in advance that th..."
In this segment, Rob elaborates on the concept of emotional variance in storytelling. He explains how alternating between uplifting and somber moments can enhance the reader's experience, making the narrative more engaging and relatable. This technique is crucial for maintaining reader interest over the course of a memoir.
"multiple people multiple people have mentioned this that I'm glad you did that because if we started write from when you're being taken from your mother I don't know if I could have gotten through thi..."
Rob discusses how his voice changes throughout his memoir, reflecting his growth from childhood to adulthood. He emphasizes the importance of capturing the perspective of his younger self while also showcasing the evolution of his language and understanding as he matures, creating a richer narrative experience.
"bit of um what uh diversity I suppose in in the reader experience is you're writing something like this and you're going through many different years right you're telling a memoir that happens over 25..."
Rob shares a story about his adoptive parents introducing themselves through a video cassette, illustrating the innocence and wonder of childhood. He reflects on how capturing the mindset of a child adds depth to his memoir, allowing readers to connect with his experiences on a more personal level.
"normally write but it was difficult at first you know I I had to go back and think okay how was I thinking about the world when I was seven or eight years old um how did my friends and I speak how do ..."
Rob addresses the challenges of balancing honesty with sensitivity when writing about others in his memoir. He emphasizes the importance of being fair and respectful while sharing his experiences, and discusses the complexities of portraying difficult relationships without compromising the truth.
"you're saying Beyond just I was in this foster care system and then I dealt with this thing if you can really inhabit who you were at that time and it's funny because at the beginning of the book you ..."
In this segment, Rob reflects on the most challenging stories to include in his memoir, particularly his experiences in rehab. He discusses the courage it took to confront these memories and the significance of sharing them, highlighting the transformative power of storytelling in the healing process.
"just put it in there yeah is there ever a time where honesty is not the way that you want to go so far at every juncture you've said I've just been more honest more true is there ever time where you d..."
Rob reflects on his childhood experiences of emotional suppression and how they influenced his writing process. He discusses the challenge of expressing vulnerability in his memoir, contrasting his past avoidance of emotions with the need for radical honesty in his storytelling.
"but you know there were moments where I was like is there any other way that I could communicate this without telling that story and um at the end I had I had to keep it in one of the things with your..."
Rob shares his strategies for excavating difficult memories while writing his memoir. He describes how he used sensory triggers, such as music and smells, to help resurface memories and the emotional toll that this process took on him.
"why they're moving me right and that somehow stuck with me even as an adult those two things such that you know I I just suppressed it you know the sadness the the um emotional turmoil and yeah I it t..."
In this segment, Rob discusses the challenges of determining what to include in his memoir. He reflects on the initial 'vomit draft' phase of writing and the subsequent editing process, emphasizing the importance of clarity and relatability in his narrative.
"what's not interesting to me it's like well it's my experience I went through it of course it's interesting and I have a very hard time making a value judgment on what to keep and what to remove what'..."
Rob talks about the feedback he received from editors regarding the language in his memoir. He explains his commitment to maintaining a simple, accessible style while also conveying the depth of his experiences, ultimately aiming for a narrative that resonates with a wide audience.
"know maybe then that's when I said okay well let me you know once I send the later chapters you'll kind of understand you know how I'm telling the story was this at the time did you not have the note ..."
Rob discusses the importance of crafting a believable narrative in his memoir. He shares how he strategically included personal anecdotes to connect his challenging childhood with his later achievements, ensuring that readers could follow his journey and understand his growth.
"funny because even the you have the citations at the bottom of of every page M at the beginning of the book no citations at the end of the book sometimes you have three or four on one page so even jus..."
In this segment, Rob reflects on the emotional exhaustion he experienced while writing his memoir. He shares how the process of revisiting painful memories affected him, leading to unexpected fatigue and the need for self-care during this intense creative endeavor.
"of you know revealing to the reader that I had difficulty early on in school I didn't know how to read when I was in second grade eventually I did become this curious kid I read a lot but that habit k..."
Rob explains how he utilized various techniques to retrieve long-dormant memories while writing. He shares anecdotes about waking up in the middle of the night to capture fleeting thoughts and the psychological aspects of confronting memories that evoke shame or embarrassment.
"exhausting and it was a different I mean just amazing because writing is you know you think you're just sitting down at a computer and typing just writing you're just thinking and I was writing this b..."
In this segment, Rob reflects on the emotional toll of writing his memoir, revealing that despite his current stability, the wounds from his past were still fresh. He discusses how the process of writing forced him to confront memories he had long avoided, and how this cathartic experience ultimately allowed him to move forward. Rob emphasizes the significance of storytelling in processing difficult emotions.
"remember and yeah try to try to put it all together so yeah it was it was a really uh in a lot of ways it was a really unpleasant period of time writing this book and it was funny because when I start..."
Rob discusses the intricacies of writing dialogue in his memoir, emphasizing that it must balance realism with clarity. He shares his challenges in capturing the voices of his younger self and the adults in his life, particularly during therapy sessions. This segment explores the importance of authenticity in dialogue and how it can enhance the reader's connection to the narrative.
"books what' you learn about writing dialogue what makes for good dialogue writing dialogue doesn't actually sound like conversation conversation is much messier than dialogue but dialogue can't be too..."
In this segment, Rob analyzes a specific interaction with his therapist, Janet, highlighting the differences in language and punctuation that reflect their respective ages and perspectives. He discusses the challenges of conveying the voice of a child while maintaining the authenticity of adult dialogue. This exploration sheds light on the nuances of communication and the impact of age on perception.
"that that requires dialogue and not some other form of Storytelling sure yeah so you're talking about Janet your therapist and I want to just read it back and forth and then we can talk through it Jan..."
Rob opens up about the reactions of his family members to his memoir, particularly his sister and mother. He shares the difficulties they faced in confronting the detailed accounts of his childhood experiences in foster care. This segment emphasizes the emotional complexities of writing about family and the importance of honesty in memoir writing.
"interaction right she's the adult there so right and you were talking about calling your friend about throwing up in the Jack in the Box parking lot and talking to different people like your sister wh..."
Rob recounts his conversation with JD Vance, who advised him on the writing process and the importance of taking time to develop his memoir. He reflects on how both he and Vance experienced a shift from academic analysis to personal storytelling in their works. This segment highlights the value of mentorship and the evolution of narrative style in memoir writing.
"that I had to write well in the acknowledgements it sounds like you had a conversation with JD Vance what was that like what did he teach you about writing Memoirs yeah so toward the end of the Final ..."
Rob discusses the discomfort many young men feel when it comes to sharing personal narratives. He reflects on the demands of memoir writing, including the need for each chapter to tell a self-contained story while contributing to a larger narrative. This segment delves into the struggle between academic writing and the immersive nature of personal storytelling.
"personal Memoir why do you think that happens so I can't speak for J I think for me people but especially young men I think are uncomfortable with personal narrative for a lot of reasons I think one i..."
In this segment, Rob shares insights from Tara Westover on the importance of maintaining narrative immersion in memoir writing. He discusses the pitfalls of introducing data and statistics into personal stories, which can disrupt the reader's engagement. This exploration emphasizes the need for authenticity and emotional resonance in memoirs.
"yeah at a certain point I realized I had to I had to tell my personal story in order to make these broader points what did you learn from Tara Westover yeah I mean educated was a fantastic book um I m..."
Rob reflects on the unpredictable nature of family reactions to memoir writing, sharing insights from his conversations with Tara Westover. He discusses how seemingly innocuous details can provoke strong responses, while more significant revelations may be accepted. This segment highlights the complexities of writing about family dynamics and the emotional weight of personal narratives.
"told me you know you really have to think about what you want to do if it's going to be personal memor it has to be personal um I didn't fully uh Embrace that advice there are periods where I do intro..."
In this segment, Rob reflects on the challenges of concluding a memoir while life continues beyond the pages. He shares a poignant story that encapsulates the core themes of his book, emphasizing the importance of love and relationships over societal expectations. This discussion highlights the emotional weight of endings in memoir writing.
"those two conversations I had with okay how' you think about ending a memoir what is important I want to read your ending mom's friends were worried that their son isn't talking as much as other six-y..."
Rob discusses the thesis of his memoir, which argues that love and stability from family are more important than academic success or wealth. He shares a friend's experience of growing up in a high-achieving environment and the emotional distance it created. This segment underscores the significance of nurturing relationships in childhood.
"rough draft of this book is done well the one of the core ideas in the book is that Elites place a lot of value on how much money you make mhm and how educated you are and what you're saying is hold o..."
Rob explains the compromise he made in his memoir between personal storytelling and academic research. He discusses the importance of grounding personal experiences in data and statistics to provide credibility. This segment highlights the challenges of blending personal narrative with academic rigor in memoir writing.
"rooted in statistics it is building off anecdotes and research papers facts and then you go right into hey here's young Rob what's the point of a preface what made that successful or not successful th..."
In this segment, Rob reflects on how his PhD experience instilled the habit of daily writing. He draws parallels between writing a thesis and crafting a memoir, emphasizing the importance of consistency and the process of drafting. This discussion offers valuable insights into developing a disciplined writing routine.
"people who hate on academic writing for good reason yeah for good reason but what have you taken from academic writing that you actually incorporated into this Memoir and that you're like wow I'm real..."
Rob reflects on his initial fear of sharing personal stories and how this guardedness hindered his writing. He discusses the transformative power of opening up about his feelings and experiences, illustrating how vulnerability can lead to personal growth and deeper connections.
"writing right it seems like something really important happened for you at the warhorse writing seminar MH at Columbia and here's what you write I wrote a rough draft of a personal essay reflecting on..."
In this segment, Rob elaborates on his journey from being closed off to embracing honesty in his writing. He recounts experiences in rehab and the importance of discussing his internal struggles, which ultimately helped him understand his past and shape his future.
"slowly started to turn around for me um you know first first I mean really I kind of tried to communicate it through those interactions with Janet where I often did feel better speaking with her but t..."
Rob critiques the performative nature of vulnerability often seen in elite college environments. He discusses how this observation influenced his writing, pushing him to share authentic experiences that contrast with the artificial narratives he encountered.
"um completely but I guess one this is only this is something I've only recently realized was there's also maybe this is something I'm wrestling with this possibility that through being in these kinds ..."
Rob emphasizes the value of persistence in the creative process, countering the romanticized notion of inspiration. He shares his experience of writing newsletters and the necessity of producing content regularly, highlighting that creativity often stems from consistent effort rather than sporadic bursts of brilliance.
"importance of hard work of consistency and you cite this paper about an Insight bias in creativity and that there's two ways to think about creativity the first is you have this idea it's like the mus..."
Rob discusses the use of cliffhangers in his memoir, explaining how certain chapters ended on suspenseful notes to engage readers. He reflects on the structure of his book and how he planned the chapters to effectively convey different phases of his life.
"and yeah writing 50 newsletter posts and maybe 10 of them are actually sort of really worthwhile and stand the test of time but you just have to put in the Reps right like with anything else and so ye..."
Rob critiques common pitfalls in memoir writing, such as failing to show vulnerability and relying on clichés. He shares insights on what makes a memoir compelling, emphasizing the importance of illustrating experiences rather than merely stating them.
"place to stop this and and then move on but overall like the structure of the book in terms of the way that the chapters are laid out those were set out in advance more or less I think it started out ..."
Rob discusses the concept of writing from scars rather than wounds, explaining the difference between reflecting on healed experiences versus unresolved pain. He highlights the importance of honesty and vulnerability in memoir writing, drawing from his conversations with other authors.
"obvious one show don't tell um yeah I think the how vulnerable you're willing to be as well um you know it's a major theme don't write a memoir if you're not willing to yeah really be vulnerable well ..."
Rob reflects on a quote by George Orwell regarding autobiography and the nature of personal narratives. He discusses how the perception of one's life is often dominated by defeats and setbacks, and how this perspective shapes the storytelling process in memoir writing.
"uh I had this conversation with with Tucker Max um and he I think him in the acknowledgements too where he talks about what is it writing from your scars not from your wounds you know where you're wri..."
Rob outlines the core elements he would teach in a memoir writing seminar, focusing on the importance of mining personal history and identifying vivid memories. He emphasizes that a memoir should not be a collection of anecdotes but a cohesive narrative that resonates emotionally with readers.
"defeats it's so true that's so true well well well you said something interesting like am I telling the truth yeah am I making myself look good but what really resonates about that is that your own in..."
In this segment, Rob outlines what he would teach if he were to structure a seminar on memoir writing. He emphasizes the importance of mining personal history, identifying vivid memories, and understanding the narrative structure. Rob distinguishes between memoir and autobiography, stressing that memoirs should center around themes that resonate universally.
"readers did tell me like well you told us how to get into college I want to know how to get into a PhD and I'm like to me it's just not nearly as as interesting or important because Orwell was right y..."
Rob shares his initial doubts about whether readers could relate to his experiences in foster care and academia. He discovers that personal stories, even those from unique backgrounds, resonate universally, evoking emotions and memories in readers from various walks of life. This segment underscores the power of vulnerability in storytelling.
"structure and storytelling in general that For Better or Worse right you can't just tell a series of anecdotes they have to center around a theme they have to communicate something and that's the diff..."
Rob discusses how sharing his coming-of-age story allows readers to reflect on their own lives. He notes that many young people relate to his experiences of uncertainty and fear about the future. This segment emphasizes the importance of vulnerability in memoir writing and its ability to foster connections with readers.
"that surprised me too is that even readers who did come from relatively in terms of material uh abundance yeah they came from maybe upper middle class families but you know someone in their family exp..."
Rob reflects on the emotional challenges involved in writing his memoir, acknowledging the toil that comes with revisiting painful memories. He expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share his story and the impact it has had on both himself and his readers. This segment highlights the emotional depth required in the memoir-writing process.
"is that kind of story yeah well Rob congrats on the Memoir thank you just all the work that went into this all the emotional toil that's really what stuck with me here the emotional toil of of doing s..."
Rob analyzes John Steinbeck's writing style, particularly in 'East of Eden,' to illustrate how simple language can evoke powerful imagery and emotions. He breaks down Steinbeck's use of sensory details and pacing, encouraging writers to focus on clarity and relatability rather than complexity. This segment serves as a guide for aspiring writers to enhance their craft.
"the pie coupled with a scoop of melting vanilla ice cream made each mouthful A Little Piece of Heaven evoking memories of long and lazy Autumn afternoons first of all that is beautiful writing and sec..."