"You were a product leader at Dropbox, then  Instacart. Now you're the PM of the most   consequential product in history. I didn't know  what I would do here. It was a research lab. The   first task wa..."

"It just feels a little more alive, a bit more  human. This model has taste. Kevin Wheel,   your CPO, said to ask you about this principle  of is it maximally accelerated? I just really   want to jump ..."

"retentive. I've been really excited about what  we've been doing in search. Can you give us a   peek into where this goes long term? Chatbt feels  a little bit like MS DOS. We haven't built Windows   ..."

"billions in revenue, and arguably the most  successful and impactful consumer software product   in human history. Nick is incredible. He's been  very much under the radar. This is the first major   p..."

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"stuff is going to die down to like, oh wow, people  are retaining, but I don't understand why. Um, and   then eventually we kind of like, you know, fell  into product development mode, but it was a li..."

"um to that scale. Okay. So, let me spend a little  time there. So I don't know if this is 100% true,   but I believe it is that Chat GPT is the fastest  growing, most successful consumer product in   ..."

"to do and process the week etc. Um, and uh, the  other thing is I've never ever worked on a product   that is so empirical in its nature where if you  don't stop and watch and listen to what people   ..."

"So you take a day off every week. Not off. Okay.  That's not the right way to put it. You take a   day of of thinking time, deep work. I I need it.  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and and um and I need to hard   u..."

"of pace and urgency on teams. Well, it's nice of  her to say that. Um you know I I spent a lot of   two things you know with chatbt I you know the  when we decided to do it you know we had been   prot..."

"the resting heart rate of your team. That's  such a perfect metaphor of just the pace   uh being equivalent to your resting heart rate. I  actually learned that at Instacart when I when I   showed up ..."

"uh with the team and just instill especially if  you come from a larger company you know at some   point we started hiring people from from you know  larger tech companies I think they're used to you ..."

"the push is is this maximally accelerated is  there a way we can do this faster? Is there   anything we can unblock? Yeah. And you know we  use that sparingly right because it has needs to   be approp..."

"very useful when we need it um And for everything  product development, you're a dead on arrival. So   it's it's important to get stuff out. We got to  open source as memes so that other teams can bui..."

"retention over time um even as our cohorts become  you know um less of an early adopter and more you   know the the average person. So um yeah so like  that note is something that I don't think people..."

"things that we've done in the product too whether  or not it's making the core models better whether   or not it's you know new capabilities like search  and personalization um and and all that uh kin..."

"improve on those use cases. And that is pretty  similar to product development work. Obviously,   the methodology is a bit different, but the  discovery is is is the same. You got to talk to   people,..."

"happened too recently or something like that.  And you know that is a type of capability that   has been incredibly retentive. Um and um for for  good reason. It just allows you to do more with   the ..."

"being live. You know the hackathon happened much  earlier and we were prototyping for a long time   but at some point we basically ran out of patience  on you know on trying to you know build somethin..."

"Uh maybe just talk about that and just is chat  the long-term interface for chat GPT. I guess it's   called chat GPT. I feel like we should either drop  the chat or drop the G GPT at some point becaus..."

"um, yes on natural language, but no on chat is is  where I would describe my my point of view. Um,   and I'm just hoping in general that we  see more sort of consumer innovation on   how people intera..."

"that in the original release, you know, making it  free was a big deal. I I don't think we appreciate   that because the uh GPD 3.5 model was in our API  for, you know, at least 6 months prior to that..."

"been like a lot of decisions over over time that  um proved pretty consequential, but you know, we   made them very very quickly as as as we have to.  So, um the the $20 a month feels like an importan..."

"the 20. We're debating you know something slightly  higher at the time. I often wonder what would have   happened because so many other companies ended  up copying the $20 price point. So I'm like,   ..."

"better people for that. Whether it was right  or wrong, it is now the fastest growing insane   revenue generating business in the world. So, uh  I wouldn't feel too bad. No, it worked out. Yeah,   it ..."

"it's it's great. I'm just going to throw a fishing  line into this pond of are there any other stories   like this? You shared this incredible story  of chat with GPT 3.5 being the original name,   ho..."

"a a a work product and you know we've literally  really define AGI as, you know, outperforming   most humans at economically valuable work or I  probably butchered that, but you know, I think   um I t..."

"from the model capabilities and that is much more  art than science where I think you really need to   look at what tech do we have available and what is  like the most awesome way to product producti..."

"and then there's enterprise specific work that  we just have to do like you got to do hippa,   you got to do soak two, you got to do all those  things if you want to be a serious player and   those ar..."

"decision actually. You know, we were debating  weight list, no weight list because we just really   knew we couldn't scale the engineering systems and  you know, the fact that there was no weight list..."

"work on really exposing to you what is possible. I  I still feel like chat feels a little bit like MS   DOS. uh we haven't built Windows yet and it will  be obvious once we do but you know there there..."

"How do you find emergent use cases these days?  I imagine the volume is very high. Do you have   kind of a trick for figuring out, oh, here's a  new thing we should really think about? Before   I buil..."

"Is there kind of a new emergent use case that  you're excited about or is there like a really   unusual use of chat GBT that you think about that  would be fun to share? I mentioned this earlier,   bu..."

"be a waste if we didn't take the opportunity of  using chatbt to really really help people. And I   think we've just begun to scratch the surface  um on on that. So um there's many aspirational   use ..."

"Everything you tell me is amazingly correct. Uh,  are you able to tell us just what happened there?   Yeah, we have, you know, we have all kinds of  collateral um online because we really felt like   ..."

"metric. Um GPD5 is an improvement which is really  exciting for me but we have more work from there.   Um and more broadly it caused us to articulate  our point of view. who actually spent a bunch   o..."

"behavior really really great. Um that can mean  connecting you with external resources when you're   struggling. That can mean not directly answering  your question but instead of giving you a helpful..."

"decision which I imagine was made early on. You  know, we're just at the beginning of of watching   how this people this this this stuff can transform  people. Um, it's incredibly democratizing if you..."

"and how we can lean in that into that even more  and I think I spent a lot of time thinking about   this with open AI um especially after chat before  that you know it was kind of a moot point because..."

"litmus test. So, I've always found you really have  to lean into why is this place successful and then   maximally accelerate that so to speak because um  it's it's what allows you to turn something t..."

"um instead like maybe we need like a little  bit more front end um or something like that.   In other cases, uh maybe what you're missing is  an incredible data scientist. So, I really like   to go th..."

"each other's skill sets. um feel like they can  think across their boundaries. Um like you know   um I really believe that product is everyone's  job for example and and and for that reason the   recr..."

"really trying to solve. Like for example,  as I mentioned with the recruiting thing,   like I'm not dogmatic that you have to have a  product manager and an engineering manager and   a designer or wha..."

"there is no analogy for what we're building. Like  there's just you can't copy an existing thing.   There's no, you know, are we like an Instagram or  are we like, you know, a Google or like a like a,..."

"I think that is uniquely true in an environment  where the properties of your product are emergent   and not knowable um in advance. Uh, and I think  many people get that wrong because like the best  ..."

"not polish your product. Um, um, it's just really  in a world where you don't know yet, you might get   very distracted. So, it's situational. Again,  you kind of have to be first principles about   i..."

"think about something that both Kevin Wheel and  Mike Kger shared which is that eval are becoming   a huge new skill that product people need to get  good at because so much of product building is   n..."

"soon that gives you a very good uh how-to for PMs  of how to write eval. I would love to read it. Um   and I hope you dis I hope you agree what I with  what I just said because maybe there's something..."

"new highquality content out there. And u for  that reason, you know, I talked a little bit   earlier about uh search and how that solved like  a really important user problem early on because   you ha..."

"I hope that you know other other um people making  great content start to feel this way because again   it's a very neat scenario. There's two uh acronyms  people have been using for this specific ski..."

"built that kind of concept before you could really  build very differentiated things. Uh at least in   the consumer space, you know, um you're like  learning GPT is going to be pretty similar to   wha..."

"come in handy numerous times. Is there a specific  philosopher or school that has been most handy   to you or is there more just a general there's so  many I I I wrote my like senior thesis on whether..."

"work? Every single career decisions I ever made,  um, including my first one out of college was just   figuring out who who are the smartest people I  know that I want to like hang out with and learn ..."

"else is luck. And this is counter to what a lot  of people are doing right now, which is follow the   money. Where can I make the most? How do I grow  this thing and make $100 million? Like all these ..."

"yourself recommending most to other people in the  product space? probably things like high output   management or the design of everyday things  or you know those kind of classic type things   becaus..."

"most with and find most interesting and valuable.  Um, yes, but that's probably my own limitation. Um   um so I'm sure there's more to more to discover.  By the way, have you read Fire Upon the Deep, ..."

"motto that you find yourself using when things are  tough, sharing with friends or family that other   few people find useful. Being the average of, you  know, the the five people you you spend the mo..."

"ways. But uh yeah, hopefully I'll get to do more  of it um in the future. Is there any analoges   between music and your job? Anything that you you  find? Yeah, actually I feel like I feel like you   ..."

"you do. So I use that analogy a lot for those for  those who like music. It tends to resonate. Mick,   I am so thankful that you made time for this. I  know today is insane. Today, tomorrow is going  ..."