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All Aspiring Journalists Should Watch This Video — Derek Thompson
31 segments available
Derek Thompson weaves together ideas from all over the place — economics, public policy, sports, and even pop culture. His writing is a breath of fresh air in a world of cookie cutter Internet content. Where other click-hungry journalists have caved to antagonistic practices, Derek’s writing is cool and charitable. And it’s also poetic. With a background in theater, he draws inspiration from the likes of literature and playwrights. This conversation will appeal to anybody who wants to write more elegantly, deal with critics, and master the art of the non-fiction story. TIMESTAMPS: 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:50 What is Derek’s process for writing 00:03:30 Derek’s cocoon of darkness 00:04:24 How does Derek set up his daily routine 00:05:20 The literal way that Derek writes 00:06:05 Does Derek dream about writing 00:06:25 The Eminem of Macroeconomic Analysis 00:06:55 Having a schedule like John Updike 00:08:15 Why Derek’s self-talk is loud 00:09:25 How theater has influenced Derek’s writing 00:11:15 Every good scene is a fight 00:12:25 How Derek thinks about conflict and tension 00:14:50 Derek’s recently contentious article on masking 00:16:30 What Derek thinks about critic 00:18:25 Moments of despair 00:21:25 Moments of Aha! 00:22:25 Subconscious dreams 00:23:25 Derek’s 9am mindset 00:26:10 Derek’s formula for interesting-ness 00:29:55 Writing and trust 00:31:15 Rants 00:32:25 Writing process as a Darwinian process 00:35:55 The Darkside of Moneyball 00:39:55 The Internet allows you to be weird at scale 00:41:25 The impressionist canon 00:45:15 Derek’s obsession with naming things 00:46:55 Hit Makers 00:49:30 How Derek’s distribution is now different 00:50:25 Balancing simplicity and complexity 00:51:25 Writing musically 00:52:35 "Repetition is the god particle of music" 00:57:25 What we see when we read 01:03:25 Why Derek writes SPEAKER LINKS: Twitter: https://twitter.com/dkthomp Website: https://www.theatlantic.com/author/derek-thompson/ Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/plain-english-with-derek-thompson/id1594471023 Books: Hit Makers: How to Succeed in an Age of Distraction - https://a.co/d/3yAif4H WRITE OF PASSAGE: Want to learn more about the next class Write of Passage? Click here: https://take.writeofpassage.school/writing-sprints PODCAST LINKS: Website: https://writeofpassage.school/how-i-write/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv ABOUT THE HOST: I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. How I Write is a podcast by Write of Passage // Production by Adam Soccolich
Segments Timeline
Every Good Scene is a Fight
Derek Thompson discusses the fundamental nature of writing, emphasizing that every good scene in storytelling is a conflict. He explores how writers must navigate the tension and dynamics of language, making the writing process a solitary yet socially aware endeavor. This segment highlights the importance of understanding how sentences will be interpreted by readers.
"every good scene is a fight and you have to figure out how's this fight going to go what are the little turns how can we take this sentence and make it mean something that is unobvious that's such a f..."
The Phenomenology of Writing
Derek shares his thoughts on the experience of writing, describing how ideas often come to him in raw forms that require refinement. He reflects on the mystical nature of writing, where the act of putting words on a page can feel like a revelation. This segment delves into the deeper questions of creativity and consciousness in the writing process.
"the internet you're one of the few people who speaks in a more purply Pros way than you write and I think that it's something very unique about you most people when they're writing they try to really ..."
Walking and Writing: An Embodied Experience
In this segment, Derek discusses the relationship between physical movement and the generation of ideas. He references the idea that some writers find inspiration while walking, contrasting it with his own preference for a more isolated writing environment. This exploration of the embodied experience of writing reveals how different settings can influence creativity.
"ultimately communicate them and so a lot of the process of writing for me is being a kind of surrogate between the first instinct that occurs to me as a writer and the impression that I want to give r..."
Creating a Cocoon for Creativity
Derek describes his ideal writing environment, which he likens to a 'cocoon of darkness.' He explains how this setting allows him to focus solely on the relationship between himself and his writing. This segment emphasizes the importance of creating a distraction-free space to foster deep concentration and creativity.
"podcast in addition to actually writing that's really interesting I love thinking about this I should first say like the the um here we go the phenomenological experience of writing is fascinating to ..."
Rituals for Writing Success
Derek outlines the rituals he employs to maintain focus and productivity in his writing life. He discusses the importance of regular routines and habits that minimize distractions, allowing him to dedicate time to his creative process. This segment highlights how structure can enhance the writing experience.
"the page and a weird way having the idea is actually the moment of realizing what you've written and in realizing it say oh that came from me and therefore I chose it I'm honestly mystified and fascin..."
The Loudness of Self-Talk
Derek shares insights into his internal dialogue, describing it as loud and generative. He reflects on how this self-talk influences his writing process and creativity. This segment explores the complexities of self-perception and the role of inner voices in shaping a writer's output.
"that don't arrive at me through walking so like talk to me about that that embodied experience now I'm trying to use all these fancy words I know exactly now you set it set us up to feel like we're li..."
Theater's Influence on Writing
Derek discusses his background in theater and how it has shaped his approach to writing. He emphasizes the importance of conflict and tension in storytelling, drawing parallels between acting and writing. This segment reveals how theatrical experiences can enhance a writer's understanding of narrative dynamics.
"think a lot of people feel in nature like made small by their surroundings there's something inspiring and about that feeling of being small within nature I prefer almost vampiric conditions for my wr..."
Navigating Conflict in Journalism
In this segment, Derek reflects on the nature of conflict in journalism, contrasting his approach with the increasingly antagonistic environment of modern media. He discusses his desire to create articles that foster agreement rather than division, highlighting the role of tension in both writing and real-life interactions.
"right kind of tunnel vision that I need to feel like the only relevant relationship in this space is between me and the computer screen and it's just me giving ideas to the computer screen being inspi..."
Navigating Tension in Journalism
Derek Thompson discusses the role of tension in journalism, emphasizing the importance of conflict in writing while acknowledging his own pathologically agreeable nature. He explains how he strives to represent opposing viewpoints fairly, constructing a 'Steel Man' argument to foster understanding rather than antagonism. This segment highlights the delicate balance between agreeableness and the necessity of tension in compelling storytelling.
"of Journalism especially in the last couple years feels like it's become so antagonistic and you haven't caved into this which is one of my favorite things about you but I was sort of thinking through..."
The Complexity of Masks
In this segment, Derek reflects on a contentious article he wrote about masking, discussing the nuanced relationship between effective masks and the policies surrounding their use. He illustrates the tension between the efficacy of masks as an intervention and the ineffectiveness of mandates, using a metaphor about broccoli to clarify his point. This exploration reveals the complexities inherent in public health discussions.
"underrated in non-fiction I think I understand the world through binaries so it's not this it's that on the one hand on the other hand right these kind of conceptualization tricks that break down an i..."
Cultivating Constructive Criticism
Derek shares his philosophy on dealing with criticism, advocating for a network of critics who genuinely want to help him improve. He emphasizes the importance of feedback from those who root for him, contrasting it with the negativity often found in online discourse. This segment underscores the value of constructive criticism in the writing process and the emotional challenges that come with public scrutiny.
"the story and I really love analogies I love metaphors um for better and worse like the the the biggest critique I have for my editors is that I use metaphor too much but I thought okay what's a metap..."
Embracing the Impermanence of Writing
Derek reflects on the emotional highs and lows of writing, particularly the despair that comes from feeling wrong or criticized. He discusses the permanence of online content and how it amplifies the pressure to be correct. This segment highlights the importance of resilience and the transient nature of feelings, encouraging writers to maintain perspective and not let past mistakes define their identity.
"me make sense of the world so now that we've been talking here what I'm reading in that is this is actually really hard for me so I'm going to write it down and actually work through my model of what ..."
The Thrill of Aha Moments
In this segment, Derek describes the exhilarating experience of having 'Aha!' moments in writing, contrasting them with the more common false starts. He shares insights into his creative process, noting that inspiration often strikes during mundane activities rather than traditional brainstorming sessions. This exploration of creativity emphasizes the unpredictable nature of idea generation.
"and so I try very hard to stay you know kind of in like the temperate zone of emotionality I try not to get too high when articled as well I try not to get too low and maybe I sacrifice you know extra..."
The 9 AM Mindset
Derek introduces the concept of the '9 AM mindset,' a strategy he employs to write for his less knowledgeable self. He explains how this approach helps him create accessible content while ensuring he truly understands the subject matter. This segment highlights the importance of clarity and simplicity in writing, making complex topics digestible for a broader audience.
"remember that this is this is baseball like you're not going to hit a home run every time you go up to bat you swing and swing and swing and sometimes you hit the home run that scores a thousand runs ..."
Defining Interestingness
Derek articulates his formula for interesting writing: novelty plus importance. He discusses the balance between being novel and being significant, warning against the pitfalls of each. This segment provides valuable insights into what makes content engaging and the importance of cultivating a sense of taste in writing.
"language to really understand for myself do I get this or do I not right sure just come back to something super concrete your formula for interestingness interesting equals novel plus important yeah I..."
Writing as a Conversation
Thompson reflects on the evolution of his writing style, moving away from overly polished prose to a more conversational tone. He emphasizes the importance of connecting with readers as if they are friends, making writing relatable and engaging. This segment highlights the significance of authenticity in writing and the value of being approachable.
"interesting how do you shape craft chisel an idea so that it has a shape of interesting that can then pierce the waves of the internet and then seep into the reader's mind that's really lovely I mean ..."
Embracing Wrongness in Writing
In this segment, Derek discusses the importance of being comfortable with being wrong in writing. He argues that modern writers often strive for correctness at the expense of creativity. By allowing room for exploration and 'wrong' ideas, writers can discover deeper truths and engage their audience more effectively.
"you can you're subscribed to as a substack you're subscribed to as a newsletter at the Atlantic you are followed on Twitter the audience that you have is a lagging indicator of your demonstrated trust..."
The Darwinian Nature of Writing
Thompson likens the writing process to a Darwinian evolution, where ideas must mutate and adapt to find their place in the discourse. He discusses how rants and half-baked ideas can lead to valuable insights and truths, emphasizing the necessity of experimentation in writing to connect with audiences.
"the experience of the wrath of it enabled nuggets of Truth to be revealed that hadn't been revealed when we were in calm and sober States throughout the previous year it's really interesting okay so t..."
The Dark Side of Moneyball
Derek explores the concept of 'Moneyball' in writing and culture, discussing how an over-reliance on data and analytics can stifle creativity. He reflects on his personal relationship with baseball and how the sport has changed due to a focus on quantifiable metrics, leading to a less engaging experience for fans.
"data some information from some experts that says you're on the right track the rant is a mutation yeah right the rant the rant's a useful mutation right and you're seeing like does the mutation of li..."
Familiarity vs. Creativity
In this segment, Thompson discusses the tension between familiarity and creativity in modern content creation. He argues that while audiences may gravitate towards familiar concepts, individual preferences can be much more diverse. The internet allows for niche content to thrive, enabling writers to connect with specific audiences in unique ways.
"bigger idea I think than just movies this article that I wrote The Dark Side of Moneyball was about baseball at the top it was this idea that I had such an intimate and beautiful relationship with bas..."
The Internet as a Metropolis for Weirdness
Derek highlights how the internet serves as a vast metropolis where niche ideas can flourish. He shares an anecdote about a unique bar in Tokyo to illustrate how small, specific concepts can find success in a large audience. This segment emphasizes the potential for writers to embrace their individuality and creativity in a digital landscape.
"about that that article a lot and it fits perfectly into this model of the the utility of rants or articles or writing that isn't fully true that are sort of half-baked because in a weird way this art..."
The Impressionist Canon
Thompson introduces the concept of the Impressionist Canon as a metaphor for content distribution. He hints at a story from his book 'Hit Makers' that explores how certain ideas resonate with audiences. This segment sets the stage for a deeper discussion on the dynamics of cultural impact and audience engagement.
"writing and does to culture which should be good for weirdness is that it allows you to be weird at scale right I had just come back from a trip to Tokyo and before I went to Tokyo a friend of mine wa..."
The Paradox of Fame
Derek explores the paradox of fame in art and culture, discussing how certain works become famous not solely due to their quality but because of the historical context that canonizes them. He reflects on the challenges of establishing new cultural canons in today's fragmented media landscape, where traditional gatekeepers have diminished influence.
"what happened I think is that kot's collection hung in the m to Luxembourg and was canonized in that moment everyone in the 1880s 1890s 1900s when they were thinking what's great impressionist art the..."
Naming Things and Musical Writing
Derek emphasizes the importance of naming concepts in writing, likening it to creating viral content. He discusses how musicality in writing, through repetition and rhetorical devices, can enhance memorability and engagement, encouraging writers to adopt techniques that make their ideas resonate with readers.
"as powerful as they used to be so for television for example what percent of Americans watched the last episode of Cheers or mash it was like 60 80 90% of households with the television it was crazy y..."
The Journey of 'Hit Makers'
In this segment, Derek reflects on the motivations behind writing 'Hit Makers' and the evolution of his understanding of media success. He shares insights into the psychological aspects of why people like what they like, revealing the complexities of human preferences and the interplay between familiarity and novelty in culture.
"logical way of attempting to make your software a little bit more viral um people remember the names of ideas sometimes even more than they understand or remember the idea itself so as a writer who lo..."
Simplicity and Clarity in Writing
Derek discusses the critiques he received about 'Hit Makers' and how they influenced his approach to writing. He emphasizes the importance of clarity and simplicity in conveying complex ideas, sharing his journey toward achieving a balance between nuanced storytelling and straightforward messaging.
"and I was just so thin skinned about critiques of the book I think when it first came out and I think about it in retrospect and I think the critique is totally right and it changed the way I valued S..."
Learning to Write Musically
Derek offers advice for aspiring writers on how to develop a musical quality in their writing. He suggests familiarizing oneself with rhetorical devices and emphasizes the power of repetition in creating memorable prose. He shares personal experiences of how reading influential authors shaped his own writing style.
"that ideas can break down in these kind of ways so Kay asmus or antim Metabo has to be the best example you take a complicated idea that is all these different parts you think okay how do I break this..."
The Challenge of Adapting Literature to Film
Derek discusses the difficulties of translating literary works into film, using the example of the adaptation of 'Shantaram.' He explains how the nuances of writing and the depth of character perception often get lost in visual adaptations, leading to disappointment for fans of the original text. This segment underscores the unique qualities of written storytelling.
"so I remember reading this and thinking like this is I'm not reading this in a way like the ghost of Philip Roth is like attempting through the meat puppet of Derek to like write about what it's like ..."
Translating Inner Movies to Readers
Derek elaborates on the idea that writing is an attempt to translate one's internal narrative into a form that others can understand. He discusses how every reader creates their own 'movie' from the text, emphasizing the challenges and beauty of this process. This segment highlights the subjective nature of reading and the emotional connection it fosters.
"um what we see when we read that makes the point that we're often disappointed when we watch movies of our favorite books right because every book is a movie when we read the book we in our minds if w..."
Impressionism vs. Realism in Writing
In this thought-provoking segment, Derek contrasts impressionistic writing with realism. He argues that while realism captures facts, impressionism evokes deeper emotional truths. This discussion encourages writers to embrace the emotional resonance of their work, suggesting that the most impactful writing transcends mere factual representation.
"what I think you lose in writing is the capture what I think that you gain in writing is enhancement through symbolism and what I mean by that this goes back to our thing of truth it's sort of like wh..."
The Joy of Writing: Freedom and Expression
Derek shares his passion for writing, describing it as a liberating and exhilarating experience. He reflects on the infinite possibilities that come with a blank page and the emotional impact writing can have on an audience. This segment captures the essence of why writing is a fulfilling pursuit, emphasizing the freedom it offers to express oneself.
"it's it's serving as a means of inspiring the feeling of awe and I get so much more awe from seeing abstract art or seeing maybe herous Bosch which is just surreal than in looking at pictures that rep..."