All Segments
Mark Cuban on the NBA, Cost Plus Drugs, and How to Fix Politics
41 segments available
What happens when AI collides with salesmanship, streaming-era sports, and healthcare? In this episode, Erik Torenberg is joined by Mark Cuban, entrepreneur, Dallas Mavericks co-owner, and founder of Cost Plus Drugs. Topics include fiery group chats and how dissent sharpens thinking, the sales playbook of modern politics, and concrete fixes for U.S. healthcare like ending PBM opacity, publishing real prices, and government-backed patient financing. Mark also explains how AI is pushing media from “social” to algorithmic, why he expects millions of models, and why ESOPs are an underrated wealth engine. He shares what he’d build today and weighs in on NBA economics under the new collective bargaining agreement. Timecodes: 00:00 Introduction 01:00 Independent Thinking & Political Identity 03:18 The Impact of AI on Media & Society 06:26 The Future of Social Platforms 08:50 Lessons from the SEC & Privacy 09:20 Political Messaging: Democrats vs. Republicans 12:30 Economic Inequality & Employee Ownership 14:17 Populism, Policy, and Political Strategy 16:00 The Role of Technology in Government 17:03 AI’s Impact on Education 18:49 AI and the Future of Healthcare 21:55 Insurance, PBMs, and Healthcare Reform 29:46 Entrepreneurship & AI-Native Careers 33:54 Business Success, Investing, and the NBA 40:05 Luka Trade, Cooper Flagg, and the New CBA 42:40 Max Deals, Second Stars, and Apron Math 51:05 Family Time and an Unconventional Investing Style 56:24 Making AI Popular and Closing Notes Resources: Find Mark on X: https://x.com/mcuban Stay Updated: Let us know what you think: https://ratethispodcast.com/a16z Find a16z on Twitter: https://twitter.com/a16z Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z Subscribe on your favorite podcast app: https://a16z.simplecast.com/ Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
Segments Timeline
The Value of Independent Thinking
Mark Cuban shares his perspective on the importance of independent thinking and engaging in intellectual discussions. He emphasizes the need for diverse viewpoints and the value of challenging oneself through conversations, especially in group chats with differing opinions. Cuban believes that understanding the root of others' conclusions sharpens one's own arguments and fosters a more informed perspective.
"I look at business as a sport and I just love to compete. I just like to be intellectually challenged. I'm an independent. I don't care about parties. I could care less. I want to be where different v..."
The Power of Challenging Conversations
In this segment, Mark Cuban reflects on his experiences in group chats where he often plays the role of the dissenting voice. He discusses how engaging with differing opinions not only sharpens his arguments but also helps him understand the underlying trust issues that shape people's beliefs. This dialogue is crucial for fostering a deeper understanding of complex issues.
"Yeah. And one of the things I appreciate most about one of our group chats is that you're one of the the lone descent. Originally, it was on the election, right? And and uh you know, it had more of a ..."
Sales Skills in Politics
Mark Cuban draws parallels between his business acumen and political strategies, particularly highlighting how salesmanship is crucial in politics. He discusses how understanding PR and sales can be advantageous for politicians, using Donald Trump as an example of someone who excels in these areas. Cuban emphasizes that these skills are essential for effective communication and engagement with the public.
"that's a win for me as well. Totally. I'm an independent. I don't care about parties. I could care less, you know, the Have you ever supported a Republican? Have I? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't care. I've ..."
The Evolution of Media and AI
Cuban discusses the transformative impact of social media and AI on media consumption and political messaging. He explains how social media platforms have changed the landscape for business leaders and politicians, allowing them to reach audiences directly. Cuban also highlights the importance of understanding algorithms and the potential for AI to reshape content creation and distribution.
"exist. Um and how to zigg and zag when it doesn't work. Yeah. And you know, I think those are actual skills of people who have built businesses. Those are entrepreneurial skills. Now, when you actuall..."
The Future of Social Media
In this segment, Mark Cuban speculates on the future of social media in light of AI advancements. He discusses the potential for new platforms to emerge and the fragmentation of existing ones. Cuban expresses hope for a shift away from rage bait and misinformation, envisioning a landscape where quality content prevails and users engage with more meaningful interactions.
"Um AI, as you know, has multi-dimensional impact and how you create content, how that content is absorbed effectively. We all have our own feed. Yeah. No two people have the exact same feed. And you k..."
Redefining Political Messaging
Cuban critiques the current political messaging strategies of the Democratic Party, arguing that they often fail to address the immediate concerns of everyday people. He emphasizes the need for politicians to focus on tangible issues that impact people's lives rather than solely attacking opponents. Cuban believes that effective messaging should resonate with voters' desires for a better quality of life.
"they think you talking babies and gorillas, you know, you know, as videos is the way to communicate. Yeah. And so it's going to be fascinating over the next three years because we don't know that part..."
Connecting with Voter Concerns
Mark Cuban shares insights from his experiences engaging with voters, highlighting their desire for practical solutions rather than political rhetoric. He recounts a moment during a public event where his candid remark about not watching the news resonated deeply with the audience, illustrating the disconnect between political discourse and the everyday concerns of citizens.
"new platform that emerges or do you think it's kind of this like fragmented ecosystem that we have now? What is your prediction for the future of social? Well I mean look at Blue Sky. Yeah. They they ..."
Impacting Lives Through Policy
Cuban stresses the importance of politicians demonstrating how their policies will positively impact people's lives. He argues that the focus should be on addressing real issues such as housing, education, and economic stability, rather than getting caught up in partisan conflicts. This approach, he believes, is essential for winning the trust and support of voters.
"connect to that content um will be the foundation of it because I think we're we're tired of rage bait. Yeah. you know, um, and we're tired of the fact that, you know, the algorithm presents what you ..."
The Power of Dissent in Political Discourse
Mark Cuban shares an anecdote from a celebration in Indiana, highlighting how a simple statement about not watching the news resonated deeply with the audience. He emphasizes that people are tired of political negativity and want to see how political leaders can positively impact their lives, rather than just criticizing opponents.
"want to get people to pay attention, I I'll give you an example. I was in Indiana um for I have I have a company, Shark Tank Company, Guardian Bikes, and we moved 80% of their manufacturing to um Seym..."
Changing Lives, Not Just Criticizing
Cuban critiques the Democratic Party's focus on attacking Trump instead of addressing the real issues affecting people's lives. He argues that to win elections, Democrats need to demonstrate how they can improve the lives of citizens rather than just rallying against billionaires and oligarchs.
"They don't want to deal with all that [ __ ] anymore. They don't want to hear about the end of democracy. They don't want to hear that Trump is an ultimate cancer. Put aside whether or not you believe..."
Employee Ownership as a Solution to Inequality
Mark Cuban discusses the potential of Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs) to reduce economic inequality. He argues that providing employees with equity in their companies can lead to higher earnings and a more equitable distribution of wealth, challenging the current focus on taxing billionaires.
"Yeah. Right. People want to know that you're impacting their life. They want to know that things are going to be better. We we hear about housing. We hear about, you know, should they go to college or..."
The Future of Universal Basic Income
Cuban proposes that instead of traditional UBI, a better approach would be to provide equity in companies to employees. He believes that this would create appreciable assets for workers, helping to close the wealth gap and improve their financial stability.
"assets you know beyond just a home a if it appreciates they can buy a home and b the wealth gap doesn't increase you know and it gets closed down. You know, if you do go if you do a little research an..."
Democratic Party's Future: Populism vs. Progressivism
Cuban reflects on the future of the Democratic Party, suggesting that it may lean towards a more populist approach similar to Bernie Sanders. He emphasizes the need for candidates who can effectively communicate and implement technology-driven solutions to address economic issues.
"Yeah. And if you don't have any, there's no way you can keep up. Yeah. You know, because the stock market's going up. Yeah. Do we think that I guess you know it seems like the Mandani sort of like soc..."
Using Technology to Improve Government Efficiency
Cuban discusses the potential for technology, particularly AI, to enhance government efficiency and reduce costs. He argues that Democrats should focus on using technology to provide better services and increase financial support for citizens.
"But in terms of substance, do you think the future Democrat party is more like a Bernie Sanders economic populism or do you think it's more I don't know. Yeah. I think I think whatever gets results. Y..."
AI's Role in Transforming Education
Mark Cuban shares insights on how AI can democratize education, allowing students to access personalized learning experiences. He highlights the importance of integrating AI into classrooms to enhance learning rather than simply providing answers.
"They don't think where is the solution? How do I get there? How do I sell it in a form that's easy to digest so people understand it? They don't get AI is like going to change everything, you know, ho..."
Healthcare's Future: Costs and Innovations
Cuban predicts that healthcare costs will rise due to advancements in treatments but believes that the quality of care will improve. He discusses the importance of using AI in healthcare to enhance patient outcomes and streamline processes.
"way of life? I think it democratizes a lot of things. Yeah. You know, particularly education, um while I understand the fear and the first pass is never the way it ends up. Yeah. You know, I got two k..."
Intellectual Property Challenges in Healthcare
Cuban addresses the challenges of intellectual property in healthcare, suggesting that research hospitals need to protect their innovations from being absorbed into AI models. He advocates for a competitive landscape where specialized data is valued.
"It'll go higher, but because we're gonna get some amazing treatments. Oh, interesting. So, the product will get better, the service will get better, right? Because now you get, you know, single treatm..."
The Need for Specialized AI Models in Healthcare
Cuban envisions a future with numerous specialized AI models in healthcare, emphasizing the need for hospitals and researchers to create and protect their data. He believes this will lead to better healthcare solutions tailored to specific needs.
"going to happen is, you know, and I've said this as I've talked to CEOs of of research hospitals, etc., you need to silo your stuff. Yeah. And you need to take what you've siloed and either do your ow..."
Reforming U.S. Healthcare
Cuban outlines his vision for healthcare reform in the U.S., advocating for the elimination of insurance companies and Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBMs) to reduce opacity and costs. He highlights the absurdity of patients paying more for medications than necessary and the need for transparent pricing in healthcare.
"If you could wave a wand and change anything about how we do healthcare in this country or where we can learn from other countries that what would you change? You get rid of the insurance companies an..."
The Flaws of Insurance Companies
In this segment, Cuban critiques the insurance industry's structure, explaining how it creates financial burdens for patients. He discusses the inverse relationship between premiums and deductibles, and how hospitals become subprime lenders due to patients' inability to afford deductibles.
"right because now they go in either through the emergency room or they show up not knowing what their deductible is and then the hospital will loan them money because they want them to reach be able t..."
A New Approach to Healthcare Financing
Cuban proposes a radical shift in healthcare financing, suggesting the removal of insurance premiums and the introduction of government-backed loans for patients. He envisions a system where patients can shop for care and receive financing similar to student loans or mortgages, promoting transparency and affordability.
"And so that's what happens. The one of the biggest um insurance companies um had $161 billion dollars of intercomp transfers. Oh yeah. Intercompany transfers. That's.3% of our GDP. Wow. Just moving mo..."
Entrepreneurship in the Age of AI
Cuban shares insights on how young entrepreneurs should leverage AI in their careers. He emphasizes the importance of being AI-native and understanding how to integrate AI into business processes to enhance efficiency and profitability, drawing parallels to his own entrepreneurial journey.
"have an option. So that's one place of risk. But if you're not paying premiums to an insurance company, you can pay for your reinsurance. And then if your hip replacement is 15,000 and you have 3,000,..."
Building a Business in a Changing Landscape
In this segment, Cuban reflects on the importance of domain knowledge combined with AI understanding for aspiring entrepreneurs. He advises focusing on sectors yet to be transformed by AI and emphasizes the potential for small companies to benefit from AI-driven efficiencies.
"been. How how would you think about that or what would you pursue for cost plus drugs or No, no. You as entrepreneur like if I was just getting out of college right now, oh, I'd be all AI every day, r..."
Building the Future: Skills and AI Integration
Cuban emphasizes the importance of domain knowledge combined with AI understanding for future entrepreneurs. He suggests that aspiring business owners should focus on sectors yet to be transformed by AI, advocating for customized SaaS solutions that adapt as AI technology evolves.
"Yeah. So you wrote the PC wave as you say then you wrote the internet wave with with broadband. You had a big outcome there. If if you were starting a company today, would would you try to build a fou..."
Business as a Competitive Sport
Mark Cuban likens business to a sport, driven by competition and the thrill of intellectual challenges. He reflects on his journey, noting how his passion for competition has fueled his success across various ventures, including Cost Plus Drugs and the Dallas Mavericks.
"SAS potentially. Yeah, totally. I want to zoom out and talk just general business success and advice. The internet lists your net worth I believe at o over 8 billion or something to the effect but one..."
The Unexpected Value of the Mavericks
Cuban recounts his initial purchase of the Dallas Mavericks, which he viewed as a passion project rather than a financial investment. He explains how the changing landscape of media rights and competition transformed the value of NBA franchises, highlighting the importance of adaptability in business.
"You know, we launched in January of 2022. We're serving millions of customers. Yeah. We're changing people's lives and everybody thought I was an idiot. You know, you're take and we're working outside..."
The Impact of Streaming on NBA Economics
Cuban discusses how the rise of streaming services has dramatically changed the economics of the NBA. He notes that the competition for viewership and media rights has led to skyrocketing franchise values, emphasizing the need for teams to adapt to this evolving landscape.
"way I looked at it back then is I'm having fun. I'm blessed, right? I'm going to make the use of my time so I enjoy every minute of it. But what changed the economics of the NBA was, you know, linear ..."
Player Value and Franchise Economics
Mark Cuban explores the relationship between player value and franchise economics in the NBA. He discusses the challenges of high player salaries and the implications for team building, suggesting that the current market dynamics require a reevaluation of traditional strategies.
"comes forward. Yeah. For all sports. Yeah. I also wonder if you know, one thesis I have is uh that uh you know, value capture will reflect value creation. It just when the market gets more efficient a..."
Draft Strategy and Team Building
Cuban reflects on his past decisions regarding player trades and draft strategies, particularly regarding the importance of patience in team building. He emphasizes the increasing value of draft picks and the need for teams to adapt their strategies to the current market.
"making money before revenue share. Right. Right. The um I know that you were dismayed at the Lucatrade. we were sort of in the group chat when it happened, but I just want to reflect. Yeah, I I was so..."
Navigating Max Contracts and Team Building
Cuban analyzes the challenges of managing max contracts in the NBA, particularly with generational players like Luka Doncic. He explains the financial implications of retaining star players and the difficulty of building a championship-caliber team around them in the current economic landscape.
"changed the um valuation approach. Right. I heard one argument that was somewhat sympathetic to which is hey the the argument for how you could understand a Luca trade is you obviously legendary iconi..."
The Changing Landscape of NBA Player Contracts
Mark Cuban discusses the evolving nature of NBA contracts and the impact of the second apron restrictions. He highlights how teams are adapting to new salary cap dynamics and the implications for player salaries and team strategies moving forward.
"happen right if you were making decisions for the Mavs now uh given where everything is what would you be thinking about where the big question is or develop Cooper first and foremost you know um now ..."
The Importance of Scoring and Defense in Championships
Cuban debates whether a team can win a championship without having one of the top players in the league. He emphasizes the necessity of having players who can score and defend effectively, and how teams like the Knicks are attempting to balance these elements in their roster construction.
"And so, you know, the whole second apron restrictions really just kicked in last year. Yeah. And so now teams are having to to deal with it. And so you you're seeing players get stretched, you know, n..."
The Role of Matchups in Playoff Success
Cuban elaborates on the significance of matchups in the NBA playoffs, explaining how teams can exploit weaknesses in opponents over a series. He reflects on past playoff performances and the importance of having versatile players who can adapt to different game situations.
"Like if you just stack the Well, yeah. I mean, the Knicks have got some defenders. Yeah. You know, um but Brunson and Cat are weak defenders? It's going to be tough. Yeah. It makes it tough because, y..."
Rebuilding Strategies for Mediocre Teams
Mark Cuban discusses the challenges faced by NBA teams stuck in mediocrity and the necessity of rebuilding. He critiques teams that fail to acknowledge their situation and emphasizes the importance of strategic planning and salary cap management in the rebuilding process.
"there's an a salary cap floor. Yeah. Right. You have to spend up to a certain amount competitive again. Right. Well, it's just that's the deal we deal with the players. They want more money spent. And..."
The Art of Personnel Selection in the NBA
Cuban shares insights on the complexities of personnel selection in the NBA, highlighting the balance between talent evaluation and the mental capacity of players. He recounts his experiences with drafting players and the unpredictability of their development in the league.
"we're seeing all the salaries kind of con revolving around the mid-level exception which is $14 million give or take. Right. And so that if you're guys now realize with the second apron things have ch..."
Investing Beyond Shark Tank
Mark Cuban reflects on his transition from Shark Tank to focusing on personal investments. He discusses his approach to finding promising startups and the satisfaction he derives from nurturing young companies rather than pursuing traditional fund structures.
"really know that to because no one comes in and works out. Yeah. And says, "Okay, I'm an idiot. I suck." Right. And shows you they suck. You know, they've all been trained on how to work out, you know..."
Balancing Family and Business Ventures
Cuban talks about his priorities in life, emphasizing the importance of spending time with his family as his children grow older. He shares how this shift has influenced his business decisions and the types of ventures he chooses to pursue.
"seem to run kind of a lean oper operation more flexible h how have you thought about the efforts that you want to get involved with not want to get involved with how thin to spread yourself so to spea..."
Revolutionizing Education with AI
Mark Cuban expresses his vision for transforming education, particularly in secondary schooling, by leveraging AI. He critiques the current accreditation system and advocates for innovative educational models that prioritize results over traditional structures.
"list cookies. Guy Doug was living in his car with his family and he sent me these cookies. Wow. They were the They were this big. They were the best cookies I've ever because I always do like the nutr..."
Entrepreneurship as a Political Focus
Cuban argues for a political shift towards supporting entrepreneurship, criticizing politicians for failing to recognize the importance of small businesses. He emphasizes the need for policies that simplify the process of starting and running a business.
"Yeah. And and that's kind of a mafia. And when I see a mafia like that, I just ignore the accreditation and just go do it anyways. And if you get the results or guarantee you results, Yeah. you'll get..."
AI's Role in Job Creation
Mark Cuban discusses the potential of AI to create new job opportunities rather than eliminate them. He highlights the importance of domain expertise and the need for Silicon Valley to communicate the positive impacts of AI on the workforce.
"unique yeah and on that note what advice In closing, what advice do you have for us in Silicon Valley or just tech more broadly who are building with AI on how to make it more popular so that we don't..."
Empowering the Next Generation with AI
Cuban shares insights from his Mark Cuban AI Boot Camp, aimed at underprivileged youth. He emphasizes the importance of engaging with middle America to foster understanding and excitement about AI, encouraging young people to explore opportunities in technology.
"And I think Silicon Valley has got to do a much better job demonstrating those jobs, hiring people for those jobs, um supporting people that are concerned about their jobs. um even teachers, you know,..."