"one of the biggest pieces of advice I'm giving to people that are like how should we adjust our marketing with the economic changes and things like that I was like start by assuming you no longer have..."

"welcome to Lenny's podcast I'm Lenny and my goal here is to help you get better at the craft of building and growing products I interview world-class product leaders and growth experts to learn from t..."

"you to hear this episode and so with that I bring you Adam grineer this episode is brought to you by Whimsical when I asked product managers and designers on Twitter what software they use most Whimsi..."

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"very podcast over the years I've seen Coda evolve from being a tool that makes teams more productive to one that also helps bring the best practices across the tech industry to life with an incredibly..."

"Adam welcome to the podcast thank you thanks for having me it's my pleasure I'm really excited to chat so I'm going to give a very brief overview of your very impressive career and just let me know if..."

"speaking of uh moving and adjusting and and iterating I know you're big into improv and how like how serious are you about improv yeah good question serious in the sense that I've like done it for a v..."

"at your work yeah so I think like generally the whole Suite of skills that you develop in improv are are pretty applicable right because you're getting comfortable on your feet with change with teamwo..."

"is less known um or talked about is is the gift of details and so in in a scene if you give somebody like really specific details about something like it gives like so much more meat to be able to wor..."

"business world to use masterclass for instance if I say like yeah Master Class we've got this way to build content that is both entertainment and education like that's interesting right but if I say w..."

"literally say it I think one of the areas that I found it to be valuable is when you've got like cross-functional work so obviously like at Uber we dealt with City teams a lot and so a lot of the time..."

"out of our skin and things like that so I I do think everybody should take improv classes I think it's also something with a lot of goals or skills that you want to develop I think being really public..."

"improv the whole time there's kind of we could if you want to we could let's just throw me away let's let's go no we don't do that so there's basically three things I really wanted to chat about with ..."

"to start with in the first topic if you think about just every company essentially goes through this kind of s-curve of growth they start slow they find something that's kind of working then hopefully..."

"does like really well so the example I've used in the past is you know Spotify in the moment of like things like Clubhouse and Paparazzi and stuff like that becoming really popular well for Spotify yo..."

"anything like that and so it's like yeah even though Paparazzi might have like become the best biggest Channel ever like is that the thing you should be putting your time into it would be like a yello..."

"like please just stop I don't you know I I don't need a a notion Clubhouse channel this week like there just isn't like and maybe there is maybe there's a world to do that but I think that's that's ki..."

"business needs the the second is the channel DNA and so um this is looking at things like where you know where are they in their their trajectory so Clubhouse is actually a perfect example because in ..."

"because of notifications on Facebook which was one of their early like features which allowed basically anybody that took any action on Zynga it would post on everybody else's page that like you got 1..."

"what advice do you have or can you give to Founders teams that are trying to test one of these in terms of just like how to how to run these tests like how much time should they spend would you say wh..."

"generally speaking I think keeping it minimum at first is my like typical recommendation I had another guest Yuri who I think you know from a former grammarly and he made a really good point that it's..."

"right versus if it's like oh I want to put text ads in podcasts like listings or something like that actually great I can like I can do that by myself you know like at midnight and it's not distractin..."

"like I would you know put it back on ice for a while cool and to your point you're not going to see any like statistically significant answers is the thing you look for just like is it like you know w..."

"for me to call that an emerging Channel because it's been around forever it's just there's more of it and there's the tools and services around it are way better now than they were four years ago and ..."

"Facebook and Google are getting Less open about at the same time I think VR is a really interesting in the way that mobile was interesting before like iPhone 3 right where it was like if you've got a ..."

"Googles and Facebooks of the world QR mid-roll ad I'm excited to chat with my friend John Cutler from podcast sponsor amplitude hey John hey Lenny excited to be here John give us a behind the scenes a..."

"like podcasting suggested for a long time and now we're finally getting to a spot where like it's like like it's it feels scalable the other is like exist testing channels that introduce something bra..."

"there nothing we were using grin at a master class we onboarded them I I looked so there's probably like half a dozen companies in that same Zone where they're they're they're building tools that allo..."

"kind of this tangential area that I wanted to spend a little time on which is this idea of as a startup you initially should and often do start with a very narrow audience kind of your like early adop..."

"companies that I meet got it it's essentially you often underestimate how challenging it'll be to grow from your initial kind of early adopter crowd do you have any is there like an example of that ha..."

"track but like if you just assume like you need to launch a new channel to fix this problem like you're gonna be wrong because like your entire customer base change not just the next 10 of customers t..."

"and they don't last they don't fit and like they don't succeed right and so I've spent a lot of time figuring like well why not some of it coming because of spending time with those people being like ..."

"that it to me means that we have a lot of mismatch marketing leadership and that quickly eliminates trust with the marketing organization it means that we rename everything marketing to product-led gr..."

"can measure them and like making that part of the DNA of everything that's happening like data being part of that I think is is pretty quintessential of being a growth driven CMO the the second I thin..."

"experiment with our brand how do we experiment with our like the funnel like every like the whole picture not just the top of the funnel or the external elements of it but one of the things that I've ..."

"I'm in trouble yeah I honestly I think like learn product development right like go learn agile product development and there's there's actually a a book called hacking marketing I think I'll I'll con..."

"things that just going and doing it you don't have to go and like operate it yourself like you don't have to go become a product manager but understanding those skills and those systems will one I thi..."

"like let's say C or below like comfortable with chaos and willingness to go do something they have not done for probably 15 years are like two huge signals for me because like the every company I've b..."

"of things and so it's like every now and then you gotta go write an email or you gotta go like you know open up Facebook and get into the weeds with it with your team like into the data of it and that..."

"new digital mobile world like really really well before a lot of people did but then eventually I'm like great now I'm running an entire digital marketing team now I'm running an entire marketing team..."

"coming from a a world where they've not had to work really closely with the product team spend time with them to figure out how they plan on adapting to that my guess is most won't have thought of tha..."

"know you've been through both these things and I'm curious just to hear your journey what that's been like what you've learned about how to get through it yeah so I um kind of the two biggest inputs f..."

"people so much that I think it's it's something like really important to her and then at Uber I got like to a spot where I was like incredibly exhausted and tired and just down not excited about work ..."

"mentioned this but it I imagine parts of those points were depression not burnout what's whatever you found to be that line of just like oh wow this is a lot more serious than I'm just working way too..."

"I'll spend time with my therapist and like work with my one of the one of the tools that my therapist has given me is to like open up with my friends and have these conversations with my friends and s..."

"your partner finding a group of friends where you could be transparent about these sorts of things is there anything else you suggest folks look into um yeah so I think the like meditations a good one..."

"those are a handful listen to to Lenny's podcast I hope I hope that to be true I don't know if that's anywhere near as powerful as these other things one thing I'll mention is on the meditation front ..."

"like they may be more burnout than just exhaustion because if if anything I see the opposite for people that are exhausted where like they get re-motivated by new stuff by opportunities to go do somet..."