"you could by literally whatever else you wanted you could post things drugs you could buy heroin write it from Afghanistan the good stuff hacking tools you could hack for hire you could buy murders fo..."

"Chris Tarbell you are one of the most successful cyber security law enforcement agents of all time you tracked and brought down Russ Albrecht AKA dread pirate robbers who ran Silk Road and Sabu of LOL..."

"young child and that needed a liver you could literally go on there and ask for a six month old liver uh if you wanted to for like surgical operations versus something darker yeah I never saw anything..."

"router which is an anonymizing uh function on uh on the Deep Web it was actually invented by the U.S Navy back in the mid 90s or so but it also used cryptocurrency so it was the first time like we saw..."

"were guns on there and he tried to police it um you know he uh he told himself the captain of the boat so he had to follow his rules so you know I think you took off those posts eventually and moved g..."

"um and so that kind of brought us to a point um the FBI has a computer system where you look up things uh you know you look up anything I can look up your name or whatever if you're associated with my..."

"anything that's not already on my FBI file oh I can already tell you what you're going to tell me though what's that the when you were at College you wrote a paper and you're connected to the person t..."

"then they released that information free to the world so Tor has two different versions of not versions two different ways it can be utilized there's dot onion sites which is like a normal website a.c..."

"um don't connect with anymore because of what you've seen that ideal being used for I mean the child exploitation is a specific example for it you know and it's I can it's easy for me to sit here and ..."

"yeah yeah yes you're gonna have to work with this for quite a lot so yeah this one had the potential of being a big one you know because I think I think Silk Road was like the sixth on the list uh for..."

"but yeah um you know the more relays you have the slower it is I mean that's one of the big drawbacks on tour is is how slow it operates so how do you peel the onion so what what are the different met..."

"um you know and one of the things you know the technical aspects on that is there was a jabber server that was uh that's a communication type of communication server um that was being used and we knew..."

"but the anonymous case there was a guy named AV unit he still I lose sleep over him because I we didn't catch him we caught everybody else we didn't catch him he's good though he pops up too once in a..."

"the shit out of each other yeah just to build if one of them ever gets caught they'll convince the everybody else that you know they're a Brazilian uh you know ISP owner or something like that and tha..."

"people from all walks of life and understanding criminals understanding their mind I think is very important and I think there's fundamentally something different between a criminal who's still active..."

"law enforcement understanding the mind of a criminal I think is really important I don't know if you're going to have the honest conversation that you're looking for I mean it may sound honest but it ..."

"different view of the world than others perhaps have do they have certain fetishes like sexual and otherwise that led to their construction of the world they might be able to reveal some deep flaws to..."

"could see if you know it's fascinating to explore the mind of a human being like that because um I think it will help people understand now of course uh it's still a person that's creating a lot of su..."

"um and he tells stories of what he did in his past and I'm like um that actor you know you know but then I listened to your episode with Brett Johnson and I was like ah this guy's stealing money from ..."

"littlesec had like their hackers which was Sabu and Kayla and they had their uh their their media guy this guy topiary uh he lived up in the northern end of England and uh they had a few other guys bu..."

"yeah low hanging fruit I guess I guess that's what it is I mean I mean I would have bought I mean even Ross bought fake IDs off the site he had federal agents knock on his door um you know and then he..."

"don't know I don't like loneliness yeah I mean my my wife's away I probably call her 10 12 times a day we just talk about things you know I just you know something crossed my mind I want to talk about..."

"and do you think he liked the actual money or the fact of the number growing I mean have you ever held a Bitcoin yeah oh you have well he never really held the Bitcoin can't hold it it's not real it's..."

"um so I don't like to do a playbook for criminals but I'll tell you right now don't write things down um there was a big fad about people like remember kids going around shooting people with paintball..."

"uh what was the process of bringing down Ross and uh the Silk Road all right so that's a long story you want the whole thing you want to break it up let's start at the beginning once we had the inform..."

"goes through Iceland um it was just my sort of thing and I was over there for like the third time and I said if I ever can bring my family here like so there's a place called thingovar and I'm sure I'..."

"geothermal um and so and then it keeps all the servers nice and cool so why not keep your computers there at a cheap rate uh I'll definitely visit for several reasons including to uh talk to AV unit y..."

"I'm generally that's my philosophy on life is like anything I text or email or say publicly or privately I should be proud of so I tried to kind of do that because you basically you say don't keep cha..."

"future we'll still be held responsible for the weird shit we do yeah a friend of mine his daughter got kicked out of college because of something she posted in high school and the shittiest thing for ..."

"the federal system there's no possibility of parole when you have life the only way you get out is if the president pardons you there's always a chance there is I think it was close uh I heard I heard..."

"as a flag bearer for the the whistleblowers the the check on the power of government yeah I mean I'm not a big government type guy uh you know so uh you know even that sounds weird coming from a gover..."

"that reality just like you work in cyber security I think it really hasn't hit most people how fucked we all are in terms of cyber security okay let me rephrase that how many dangers there are in the ..."

"absolutely you know you could abuse it I I think during in the part of the Snowden League saw the two NSA guys were uh moderating like their girlfriends and there's rules in place for that those peopl..."

"is a balance and those 50 pages just they have a lot of value if they make your job harder but they prevent you from abusing the power of the job yeah there's a balance yeah that's a tricky balance so..."

"bad decisions how did uh you figure out that he is in San Francisco so we had that part with Jared that he was on the west coast and then who again is Jared Jerry Reagan was a he was a partner um in u..."

"so what's the connection of Frosty elsewhere the person logging into the Philadelphia backup server the name of the computer was Frosty yeah another clue in my world and that's it the name is there th..."

"unfortunately the government shut down two days before so it was just us and that's really the only reason I had any publicity out of it is because the government shut down and the only thing that wen..."

"done um yeah and the one guy one of the guys the main guys I sent to Iceland man he was so smart like I sent another guy from the FBI to um to France to get that part and he couldn't do it so the guy ..."

"can just sit in a room and sit in on the meeting um but it's all you know security network and all that so we can talk openly about uh secure things um and we sat in on the meeting and people just kep..."

"across the world between different people yes okay uh does part of you regret because you push forward the the heroin and the drug trade we never got to the murder discussion I mean the only regrettin..."

"let's just even outside of Silk Road do you think the War on Drugs by the United States has caused has alleviated more suffering or caused more suffering in the world that might be above my pay scale ..."

"playbook out there yeah yeah but and also there's a case for uh do you ever think about not taking down if you have not taken down Silk Road you could use it because it's a market it itself is not nec..."

"um you know that's pretty much why we took down Ross when we did I mean we had to jump on it fast what else can you say about this complicated world that has grown of the dark web I don't understand i..."

"have grown yeah my sense was when I interacted with Tori was that there's huge usability issues but that's for like legal activity yeah because like if you care about privacy it's just not as good of ..."

"it's all lies like yeah it feels like I can't trust anything no you can't you honestly can't and like you can talk to two different people and it's the same person like like there's so many different ..."

"the kids that grow up oh they've learned from his his mistakes just the extreme competence you just see how good people are in video games like the level of uh play in terms of video games like I I us..."

"at the kid that was hacking into Uber and Rockstar Games he put it out there that he was doing it I mean he used the name um whatever hacked into Uber was his screen name he was very proud of it I mea..."

"said like I have never met Ross until I have only had those two uh to two days of worth of interaction yeah it's just interesting given how long you've chased him and then having met him what was the ..."

"for him yeah we took him to the jail and we we so he it was after hours so he didn't get to see a judge that day so you stick we stuck him in the San Francisco jail um I hadn't slept for about four da..."

"lawyer and he'd have to waive that and all that but we didn't talk about his case so much we just talked about like human beings did he um with his eyes with his words um reveal any kind of regret or ..."

"you know where in which prison he is I think he's somewhere out in Arizona I know he was in the one next to super max for a little while like the the high security one that's like shares the fence wit..."

"understand what's interesting about these kinds of stories and there's a lot of things that are interesting and they missed all of them so for example I recently talked to John Carmack all right who's..."

"yeah maybe one on an fx show or something like that because it was kind of gritty you know yeah yeah pretty yeah exactly gritty I mean uh shows like Chernobyl from HBO made me realize okay you can do ..."

"I don't know yeah I like Chernobyl when I re-watch it I can't watch episode three though the the the animals the episode they go around shooting all the dogs and all that I gotta skip that part big so..."

"because I'm familiar with the paywall created by uh the institutions that hold these Publications they're adding very little value so it is basically holding hostage the work of millions of brilliant ..."

"violation of at the time you know 18 USC 10 10 30 computer hacking um you have to press forward with that I mean that you have to charge the you you bring the case to the university office and whether..."

"those documents what do you think about the the FBI and Mar-A-Lago and the FBI taking the documents for Donald Trump you know it's a tough spot I it's a really tough spot the the FBI's got a lot of bl..."

"there's a chain of command and so on uh what do you think about the conspiracy theories that people some small number of people inside the FBI conspired to undermine the presidency of Donald Trump if ..."

"what do you think about Mark Zuckerberg on Joe Rogan's podcast saying that the FBI warned Facebook about potential foreign interference uh and then Facebook inferred from that that they're talking abo..."

"seems like all of that somehow escalated to a political interpretation I mean yeah it sounded like there was a wink wink with it um the the I don't know if Mark meant for that to be that way you know ..."

"whoever uh Donald Trump Jr's uh laptop uh another time it's a tough job I mean if you're the liaison if you're the FBI's liaison to Facebook uh uh you know there there's certain people that I'm sure t..."

"ideology the bubble it's interesting to see that bubble like I've um asked myself a lot of questions I've interviewed the Pfizer CEO um what seems now a long time ago and I've gotten a lot of criticis..."

"and I don't know I don't know that complicated it seems like inside a bubble you can convince yourself if anything is good uh people inside the the Third Reich regime were able to convince themselves ..."

"yeah for sure uh one of the tough things actually of being a public personality when you speak publicly is you get attacked all along the way as you're growing right and and um uh in part a big softy ..."

"yeah it just it gets to like a it shakes your faith in humanity actually is is probably why it hurts like um people that um call me a Putin apologist or as a landscape apologist which I'm currently ge..."

"and so if you open yourself up that way the things they tell you can really hurt in every way like uh just have me going to Ukraine just seeing so much loss and death some of it is like uh is I mean u..."

"the very intense propaganda that's happening so it's you can understand um that there is love in the heart of the soldiers on each side given the information they're given there's a lot of people on t..."

"mean you're not naive to it yes but if you experience that directly if somebody shot somebody for fun in front of me that would probably break me yeah like seeing yourself knowing that it exists is di..."

"so that's l-u-l-z-s-e-c Luz SEC of course it is sex and uh who founded that organization so Kayla and Sabu were the hackers of the group and so they really did all the work on HP Gary so these are cod..."

"I actually Linger on um Anonymous what do you still understand what the heck is anonymous it's just a place where you hang out I mean it's just to start on 4chan with Han and then it's really just any..."

"it like literally lead to nuclear war like literally destabilize yeah like yada yada yada nuclear war I could see it yeah and so I've been more careful with the lull uh uh I I'm very yeah I've been mo..."

"has some hackers in it there's not a lot of big hackers in it I mean there are some that have come bounce in and bounce out even back then there's probably just as many reporters in it people the medi..."

"and then like the thing is I'm I'm a tiny guy but when it grows uh if you're like have a big platform I feel like newspapers will pick that up and then they'll like start to build on a story and you n..."

"undercover going on the squad about all times when one was being shut down or taken down we were spinning up another one so it's a good tool to have um you know and utilize they're a lot of work I don..."

"attire and she goes you could wear bike shorts in here I wouldn't care I was like oh shit that sounds nice I never wore the bike shorts but yeah but see I don't I see a suit and ties constraining I th..."

"so I had to make a really really shitty phone call one time um I was sitting in the bureau and this was right after Silk Road um and Jared called me he was back in Chicago and he called me and said he..."

"of them um and that that's to be honest I think that's sort of uh my mother-in-law's words were I thought you did cyber crime and because during Silk Road I didn't tell my family what I was working on..."

"just like I said Hollywood has an idea of an FBI looks like yeah I don't think you can do that anymore I don't think you can say that anymore well he uh certainly has a big personality and Charisma an..."

"um and so we just kind of pay attention to it then I got a tip that a local hacker in New York had broken into AOL and so Olivia Olivia Olson and I she's another agent who she's still in she's a super..."

"Fridays that we was yeah oh he led it yeah he was the leader of fuck FBI Fridays so yeah what was one of the more memorable uh F the triple F's I said what how how do you get why how and why do you go..."

"teams are awesome like you cannot even tell their FBI agents it's it's in it's they are really that good I mean there's baby strollers and all whatever you wouldn't expect an FBI agent to have so that..."

"um and I only bring it up because Sabu makes fun of me to this day so I had a bulletproof vest and a white T-shirt on and that was it like shorts tune and all that but um raced over to there we didn't..."

"uh so we sat there and we kind of showed him sort of the evidence we had against him um and you know from his words we sat there and talked uh talked like uh two grown adults and you know I gave him t..."

"um what was he facing if um he was raised 125 years 125 years in prison that's that now that's if you took every charge we had against him and put him you know uh consecutively no no one ever gets cha..."

"going after MasterCard and PayPal and all that do the wikileak stuff but even even that little interaction being an informant he probably made a lot of enemies does how do you protect a guy like that ..."

"those Wars anymore there's still people out there that that bitch and moan about him but but yeah I think it's less um I I think you know he has a good message out there of you know he he trying to ke..."

"think Brazil law enforcement is as good as hunting them down so you're not going to see the big arrests how much state-sponsored uh cyber attacks are there do you think more than you can imagine and w..."

"uh because I think in that case it comes from a somewhat good place because you know they're not getting any money for my ID it's more for the challenge let me ask you about that about this world of c..."

"everybody wants so it's you know you can buy all the tools you want it's configuring them the proper way and there's if anyone's trying to tell you uh that there's one solution that fits all their sna..."

"need access to everything maybe you need access to something for one day turn the access on don't leave it on I mean I was the victim of the OPM act the office of personnel management because old cred..."

"uh because these guys are taking taking us well two-factor authentication is a good example of something that I just was annoyed by for the longest time because yes it's very good but like it's it see..."

"a good job with passwords yeah right but I'm saying like the two Factor authentication it should uh it should be super easy to authenticate myself uh in some with some other device really quickly like..."

"in there so yeah I would there's no way I'd want to run a large tech company what about protecting individuals for individuals what's good advice for to try to protect yourself from this increasingly ..."

"understanding certain things um you know simple things like you know as we add more internet of things to people's houses I mean how many Wi-Fi networks do people have it's normally just one and you'r..."

"you know we're making a dossier on each person it's 350 million dossiers just in that one hack Yahoo there was a half a billion so the the thing a hacker would do with that is try to find all the link..."

"to the number of ring users you know you can use also password managers to make to make the changing of the passwords easier um to make you can choose the difficulty the number of special characters t..."

"engineers that made the software don't even know about it now let's talk about one days um so there's a patch now out there for the security so if you're not updating your systems for these security b..."

"account for example much harder that's probably social engineering right that's probably the best way probably if you if you wanted something specific to that I mean if you really want to go far you k..."

"loggers so I I think is is in natural what happens is you realize how many vulnerabilities there are in this world you do that when you understand bacteria and viruses you realize they're everywhere i..."

"yeah no the security team there had to really work around to make that work uh non-compliant with company policy but that's that's interesting the the key log is there's there's a lot of there's just ..."

"for yeah that's true that's true so it's like uh me printing like a treasure map to a random location just get people to go on Goose goose chases yeah uh what what about operating system what what hav..."

"firm that we our launch party is actually on Thursday so it's going to be exciting do you want to give more details about the party so that somebody can hack into it no I don't even tell you where it ..."

"we're I mean it's not weird that you guys used to be enemies and now you're friends so yeah I mean we just did some a trailer and all that and uh the the our producer we have a great producer got him ..."

"mean I I would hate to just be you know just fear-mongering out there um you know and kovid's over so the next big thing in the media is war and all that but I mean there's some some Flags going up th..."

"think it's gotten a lot better since then and there's probably nation states or major organizations that are sitting secretly on Hacks like 100 a hundred percent they're sitting secretly waiting to ex..."

"like if it's well done it's going to be extremely difficult the problem is it there's so many problems one of which the US government in that case has complete freedom to blame anybody they want true ..."

"you are being tracked um I wouldn't say you're being tracked by the government you're definitely being tracked by big Tech uh no I mean me personally Lex and an escalated level so like uh um like you ..."

"um it's it's pretty bad I got it okay but there's also a bar inside the FBI Academy people don't know that yes alcohol bar wow and if you as long as you've passed your PT and uh and and going well you..."

"gonna do it and you'll blame me it wasn't me looking back at your life is there something you I'm only 44 years old I'm already looking back is there stuff that um you regret AV unit yeah he got away ..."

"things so would it be fair to say that all all the criminals or most criminals are uh just people that took a wrong turn at some point they all have the capacity for for good and for evil in them uh I..."

"security just remember it's all going to follow you I mean I I you know there's laws out there now there you have to turn over your social media accounts in order to have certain things um they just c..."

"sometimes uh for some for some reason they interact on social media as if they're talking to a couple of buddies uh like just shooting shit and mocking and and like um you know what is that busting ea..."

"a good look it's not like you're you should it's complicated because I'm like against hiding Who You Are but like an asshole you should hide some of it yeah but like I just feel like it's going to be ..."

"you need to learn and take extremely seriously also I think like taking that seriously will help you figure out who you what you really stand for if you use your language carelessly you never really a..."

"you're not careful it can really put you in yeah you know you're good at it you become powerful you become you know everyone's slapping on the back and say what a good job and all that you know at a v..."

"um the the like rough moment and I'll tell you a story that just happened to me two days ago and it fucked me up man it really didn't you'll be the first I've never told that I tried to tell my wife t..."

"um and then uh my mom had some people visiting her the other night and uh the Tom and Karen rogerberg and I'll say they're my second biggest fans right behind my dad um they they always asking about m..."

"stories and I fuck lost it I literally stood in my shower sobbing yeah like like a child like it just thinking about like all my dad wanted was those stories yeah and now I'm on a fucking podcast tell..."

"what did he teach you about what it means to be a man so my dad um he was an engineer and so part of his job we worked for Vermont Power and electric or whatever it was I mean he when he first got mar..."

"I can try all I want but well what do you think is the role of love because you uh you you gave me some grief you busted my balls a little bit for talking about love a lot what do you think they're al..."

"and uh I can't wait to listen to this into your talk was just uh probably hilarious and insightful um given the life of the two of you lived and given how much you've changed each other's lives um I c..."