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The Body Trauma Expert: This Eye Movement Trick Can Fix Your Trauma! The Body Keeps The Score!
87 segments available
Bessel van der Kolk is Professor of Psychiatry at Boston University School of Medicine and President of the Trauma Research Foundation. He is the author of the global bestselling book ‘The Body Keeps The Score’. 00:00 Intro 02:17 Bessel's Mission 02:54 What Is Trauma? 04:22 What Trauma Treatments Do You Disagree With? 05:48 Does Rationalising Your Trauma Help? 06:47 What Is Considered Trauma? 09:26 Can Small Events Lead to Trauma? 10:05 Bessel's Experience as a Psychiatrist 12:29 Bessel's Parents 15:17 Consequences of Child Abuse 15:53 Is It Important to Understand Childhood Experiences? 16:28 Was Your Mother an Incest Victim? 17:17 How Many Patients Trace Issues to Childhood Experiences? 17:46 Examples of Child Abuse 19:03 How Culture Influences Parenting 21:37 Disciplining Children 23:49 Liberation Equals Separation 25:29 What Did You Learn for Your Children? 26:46 Medical Treatment for Behavioural Dysfunctions in Children 30:21 Impact of Movement on Healing 31:46 Importance of Secure Attachment to a Caregiver 32:43 Can You Heal from Childhood Trauma? 34:18 The Body Keeps the Score 36:12 Somatic Approach to Healing 36:39 Are Women More in Touch with Somatic Healing? 37:47 Impact of Trauma on Creativity 41:00 Trauma as a Perception 44:50 How Many People Have Trauma? 45:35 How Does Trauma Affect Brain Activity? 49:46 Study: Reliving a Traumatic Event 54:59 Most Radical Improvement in Clinical Practice 55:40 EMDR 57:39 How Effective Is EMDR Therapy? 58:46 Demonstration of EMDR 1:03:57 Breath work 1:05:40 Impact of Yoga on Trauma 1:06:08 Study: Effects of a Weekly Yoga Class 1:07:54 Disconnection and Hypersensitivity 1:10:12 Impact of Physical Activity on Trauma 1:13:01 Picking Up People's Energy 1:15:47 Challenges of Individualistic Cultures 1:16:33 Role of Community and Social Connections in Trauma 1:17:22 Are Women Better at Forming Connections? 1:18:04 Building Relationships in the Army 1:18:59 Building Connections Through Sports 1:20:04 How to Get By in an Individualistic Society 1:20:59 Are You Optimistic About the Future? 1:21:58 Are You Able to Point Out Anything Good About Trump? 1:22:19 Human Inclination Toward Fighting 1:22:39 Three Ways to Reverse the Damage of Trauma 1:25:38 Types of Brainwaves 1:27:33 Psychedelic Therapy 1:28:12 Body Practices 1:28:53 Is Touch Healing? 1:29:06 Talk Therapy 1:29:31 Bessel's View on Taking Medications 1:29:53 The Bottom-Up Approach 1:31:38 Does Going to the Gym Help? 1:33:50 Bessel's View on Psychedelic Therapy 1:37:46 Effects of MDMA 1:39:10 Impact of Psychedelics on Treatment-Resistant Depression 1:40:18 Bessel's Experience with Psychedelics 1:42:57 How Did Psychedelic Experiences Change You? 1:43:33 Have You Healed from Your Trauma? 1:44:21 Psychodrama 1:49:18 The Rise in ADHD Diagnoses 1:51:31 Cause of ADHD 1:52:28 Is ADHD Over diagnosed? 1:55:06 How Can We Raise Untraumatised Kids? 1:56:09 Helping People in Traumatic Events 1:58:06 Question from the Previous Guest Follow Bessel: Website - https://g2ul0.app.link/fJd55uRwqPb You can purchase Bessel’s book, ‘The Body Keeps The Score’, here: https://amzn.to/3DyhgIY Studies mentioned: besselvanderkolk.tiiny.co Get your hands on the Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards here: https://appurl.io/iUUJeYn25v You can purchase the The Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards: Second Edition, here: https://g2ul0.app.link/f31dsUttKKb Follow me: https://g2ul0.app.link/gnGqL4IsKKb Sponsors: PerfectTed - https://www.perfectted.com with code DIARY40 for 40% off
Segments Timeline
The Power of EMDR in Trauma Healing
Bessel van der Kolk discusses the effectiveness of Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) therapy in treating trauma and depression. He highlights a study showing that 78% of participants with adult trauma were completely cured through this method, emphasizing the importance of understanding trauma as a lived experience rather than just a memory.
"I've proven how helpful EMDR can be for pgsc and depression why and how well trauma is a be living and whatever you're feeling is real as opposed to feeling like a memory but in our research you disco..."
Bessel's Mission in Understanding Trauma
Bessel van der Kolk shares his lifelong mission to understand how people survive extreme situations and the impact of trauma on human connection. He reflects on the evolution of the concept of trauma and its significance in modern discussions, noting how it has shifted from being a neglected topic to a central focus in mental health.
"your life pursuing I have been interested in how people survive extreme situations how people can uh overcome the history of people doing terrible things to each other and how we can create a better w..."
Misunderstanding Trauma
Van der Kolk addresses the common misconceptions surrounding trauma, explaining that it is often misunderstood as a mere label for various experiences. He emphasizes that trauma is fundamentally about the breakdown of connection between individuals and the importance of fostering relationships for healing.
"of trauma specifically how we've misunderstood what it is well there has been Evolution which is quite striking and when I when I first started to study trauma I was on the research floor at Harvard u..."
Critique of Traditional Trauma Treatments
Bessel van der Kolk critiques traditional methods of treating trauma, particularly cognitive behavioral therapy, which he argues fails to address the core issues of trauma. He discusses the limitations of these approaches and advocates for more effective, evidence-based treatments that truly address the complexities of trauma.
"depression anxiety um PTSD what is it that you disagree with with with the traditional view of how to treat them people are being taught methods that they say can cure people in eight sessions which t..."
The Nature of Traumatic Experiences
Van der Kolk explains that trauma is often a speechless experience, where individuals become overwhelmed by emotions and lose their ability to think clearly. He highlights the importance of finding language to articulate these experiences as a crucial step in the healing process.
"if you understand trauma is that your brain and perceptual system gets rewired so you see things almost entirely through the life the past experience rather than current experience okay so if I've if ..."
Defining Trauma: Big T vs. Small t
In this segment, Bessel van der Kolk clarifies the distinction between 'Big T' trauma and 'small t' trauma. He argues that relational trauma, often overlooked, can have profound effects on individuals, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging and validating these experiences for healing.
"the word tumor as you say has been thrown around a lot um and it's become a bit of a cultural joke to some people when you say you know something happens to you you go oh I feel triggered um I'm traum..."
Perception of Trauma
Van der Kolk discusses how the perception of an event plays a critical role in determining whether it is experienced as traumatic. He illustrates that two individuals can experience the same event differently, leading to varying trauma responses based on their personal histories and contexts.
"room for us so if you get fired from your job and it's a traumatic event yeah um for you because you you get I don't know you get you lose your friends you lose the job your parents are embarrassed ab..."
Bessel's Journey in Psychiatry
Bessel van der Kolk recounts his early experiences in psychiatry, including his work with veterans and individuals who have faced severe trauma. He reflects on how these experiences shaped his understanding of trauma and its long-lasting effects on individuals.
"something else and can you give me an overview of the work you've done in your life that have fed into all of the knowledge and information that you have just for anyone that might not know who you ar..."
Childhood Experiences and Trauma
In this segment, van der Kolk emphasizes the profound impact of early childhood experiences on adult behavior and mental health. He discusses how many individuals in his practice trace their issues back to childhood trauma, highlighting the importance of addressing these foundational experiences.
"Central to your story is this early experience you said earlier that you you were born in 1943 1943 very important when you're born has a huge inflict on who you become so my earliest imprint is of my..."
The Impact of a 'Frozen' Parent
Bessel van der Kolk shares insights into how having a parent who is emotionally unavailable can affect a child's development. He discusses the long-term implications of growing up with a 'frozen' parent and the challenges it poses in forming healthy relationships.
"sickly you were born in 1943 in see occupied Netherlands Netherlands okay and you the middle children of five that's right y you were very sick as a child yeah what were your parents like in terms of ..."
Exploring Family Trauma
Van der Kolk recounts a personal experience with his mother regarding potential childhood trauma. He reflects on the difficulty of discussing sensitive topics within families and the implications of unresolved trauma on familial relationships.
"those sort things yeah yeah your mother would faint whenever Bessel would ask her what her life was like when she was a little girl no no I asked her only once um I was already a junior professor at H..."
Child Abuse as a Preventable Cause of Mental Illness
Bessel van der Kolk discusses the significant role of child abuse and neglect in contributing to mental illness and other societal issues. He cites research indicating that addressing these issues could drastically reduce rates of depression, substance abuse, and suicide.
"don't know if my mother was sexually abused she just fainted when I asked the question yeah but that's how it goes H you barely get a straight answer to any of these things you said that child abuse a..."
Curiosity About Childhood Experiences
In this segment, van der Kolk encourages individuals to explore their childhood experiences as a means of understanding their current behaviors and mental health. He emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and curiosity in the healing process.
"think being curious about yourself is very necessary uh also to be curious in order to be curious of other people when you said about your mother and the incest thing yeah you'd realized as an adult m..."
The Impact of Unseen Trauma
In this segment, Bessel discusses the profound effects of childhood trauma, noting that a staggering 90% of his patients trace their adult dysfunction back to early experiences. He explains that many children feel unseen and unprotected, leading to long-lasting emotional scars. The conversation touches on the various forms of trauma, including physical and emotional abuse.
"conclusions that my mother was in victim something happened to her but I don't know what it is okay but the indicator was that she was always uptight about sex it wasn't that unbelievably UPS about se..."
Words Can Hurt: The Power of Verbal Abuse
Bessel van der Kolk highlights the damaging effects of verbal abuse on children, illustrating how negative words can shape a child's self-image and identity. He shares a poignant example of a mother’s hurtful words that can lead to lifelong emotional struggles. This segment underscores the importance of understanding that trauma can stem from both actions and words.
"you say Terrible Things Terrible Things is being beaten up being sexually molested having their bones broken what if it was just words also words one of my patients mother said for all the time oh you..."
Cultural Perspectives on Discipline
Bessel discusses the cultural differences in parenting and discipline, particularly the shift in attitudes towards physical punishment. He contrasts the views of different generations and cultures, emphasizing the need for a more compassionate approach to raising children. This segment explores how societal norms influence parenting styles and the implications for child development.
"because they sometimes think well I've got to raise a child that's not dysfunctional so I've going to have to punish them and I've G to have to discipline them as a way to make sure that they grow up ..."
Reflections on Personal Discipline
In this reflective segment, Bessel shares his personal experiences with discipline in his upbringing. He discusses the predictability of punishment in his childhood and how it shaped his understanding of parenting. This introspective moment reveals the complexities of reconciling past experiences with present parenting choices.
"because um at least not straight on I grew up in a household where I was punished physically in pretty significant ways ways that I probably could share because it's just quite you know significant qu..."
Breaking the Cycle of Abuse
Bessel recounts a transformative experience when he resisted the urge to repeat the abusive patterns of his own parents with his daughter. This segment highlights the emotional weight of breaking generational cycles of trauma and the importance of conscious parenting choices. It emphasizes the struggle between inherited behaviors and the desire to create a nurturing environment.
"over time as as layers come open but what you talk about that things were predictable is very important my parents also were predictable which is enormously helpful for at least you to anticipate to k..."
The Liberation of Conscious Parenting
In this powerful segment, Bessel discusses the liberation that comes from consciously choosing to parent differently than one was raised. He reflects on the challenges of separating from familial patterns while maintaining a sense of belonging. This moment of realization is framed as a significant step towards healthier relationships and personal growth.
"actually realize that I'm about to repeat what was done to me which people do routinely and I was about to beat my daughter and I said that's the end of the story yeah it still causes you a lot of emo..."
Learning from Children
Bessel shares insights gained from his children, illustrating how parenting can be a profound learning experience. He reflects on the unexpected journeys of his children and how their growth has influenced his understanding of love and acceptance. This segment emphasizes the reciprocal nature of parenting and the lessons learned from children.
"of us to because we want to Bel long we want to be member of a tribe and if you do things differently you lose your tribe and you become a lonely Trav so this is incredibly complex because uh people w..."
The Dangers of Labeling Children
In this segment, Bessel critiques the tendency to label children with psychiatric disorders and the implications of such labels. He discusses his personal experience with his son and the importance of understanding the individual needs of children rather than conforming to societal expectations. This conversation highlights the risks of medication and the need for tailored approaches to child development.
"you know we all none of us knows but what we're doing and then the kids teach us how to to be very important teachers for how do you deal with this because it's very challenging yeah what did you lear..."
Privilege and Access to Care
Bessel discusses the role of privilege in accessing mental health care and the disparities faced by low-income families. He reflects on how his financial stability allowed him to seek diverse treatments for his son, contrasting this with the challenges faced by families without resources. This segment sheds light on systemic issues in mental health care and the importance of equitable access.
"understand either of them when we see dysfunctional behavior in children I think one of the natural reactions is to give them some kind of medication or to attach some label to them and say that they'..."
The Role of Movement in Healing
Bessel explores the significance of movement and physical activity in healing trauma. He contrasts Western approaches to mental health with practices from other cultures that incorporate movement as a form of therapy. This segment emphasizes the need for holistic approaches to mental health that include physical well-being as a crucial component of healing.
"state him I mean just on that point there's a startat I read that children from low-income families are four times more likely as the privately insured to receive antis psychotic medicines that's righ..."
Cultural Differences in Healing Practices
In this segment, Bessel reflects on his experiences in China and the cultural practices that promote healing through movement. He discusses the importance of understanding different cultural approaches to mental health and how they can inform Western practices. This conversation highlights the value of integrating diverse healing methods into therapeutic practices.
"thing is they can what they call take a swig if you feel bad you take them alcohol and that makes you feel better so that's part of our respected tradition is taking a chemical to change the way you f..."
The Impact of Early Experiences
Bessel van der Kolk discusses how early experiences shape a child's identity and self-perception. He emphasizes that negative labels from caregivers can become ingrained, leading to lasting psychological imprints. Despite the difficulty in changing these imprints, he reassures that healing from childhood trauma is possible with the right resources and support.
"average look at building kids in the world and I'm not any cure anybody else no when a kids gets old you're really cute that is your reality and if a kids gets told you're really ugly and nasty and me..."
The Challenge of Modern Therapy
Van der Kolk critiques the current focus of therapy on productivity and behavioral change rather than genuine healing. He highlights the need for unconventional methods that prioritize patient well-being over cost-effectiveness, arguing that the profit motive undermines effective trauma treatment.
"I see people in your experience You' you've dealt with patients your whole life um your whole professional life how many of those patients do you think were healable I really think that if given a cha..."
The Body Keeps the Score
Exploring the concept that trauma is a visceral experience, van der Kolk explains how trauma manifests physically in the body. He contrasts two approaches to healing: changing the mind to affect the body or vice versa, emphasizing the importance of somatic experiences in trauma recovery.
"you cheap is the main motivation I think the profit motive is killing good practice your your book was very interesting because um when I read the cover and then I watched a video you had made talking..."
The Somatic Approach to Healing
Van der Kolk introduces the somatic approach to healing, which involves experiencing bodily sensations and allowing movement that has been previously restricted by trauma. He notes that women often engage more with these practices, such as yoga and dance, which can aid in trauma recovery.
"read your book and doesn't even understand the like base premise here what is the like base premise of your of the title there it's really that trauma is a visceral experience what does visceral mean ..."
Shared Physical Experiences in Healing
Discussing the role of shared physical experiences, van der Kolk highlights how military training fosters connection and competence among individuals who may initially struggle. He emphasizes the importance of communal activities in building resilience and healing from trauma.
"psychology does things that most spouses have failed in using very well this sematic approach I've only recently heard this term from my partner and she says It's amazing And she's told me she told me..."
Creativity Born from Trauma
Van der Kolk observes a correlation between past trauma and heightened creativity in individuals. He suggests that those who have faced struggles often develop innovative solutions and perspectives, although many may not have the opportunity to seek therapeutic help.
"Band of Brothers how do they do it not by yaking but by having very deep shared physical experiences one of the interesting things that you write about which I found particularly interesting because I..."
Transformative Programs for Trauma Recovery
Highlighting programs like Homeboy Industries, van der Kolk illustrates how trauma-informed care can transform lives. He discusses the importance of creating safe spaces for healing and the effectiveness of group activities in fostering connection and recovery.
"discover new options that's true that's true yeah but you know but those are the people who manag to get into my practice and the people who don't find those Solutions don't have the wherewithal and t..."
The Role of Trauma in Entrepreneurship
Van der Kolk reflects on the idea that individuals with traumatic backgrounds may excel in entrepreneurship. He shares insights from Barbara Corcoran, who notes that these individuals often approach challenges with solutions, contrasting them with those who lack such experiences.
"working in groups working with movement um like it's in Quinton they have dancing classes I go like yeah moving together with other people gives you a sense of connection sense of pleasure uh they the..."
Anomalous Upbringings and Adult Outcomes
Exploring the relationship between early trauma and adult behavior, van der Kolk discusses how traumatic experiences can lead to unique problem-solving abilities. He emphasizes that while trauma can drive innovation, it can also result in maladaptive coping mechanisms.
"attached versus people who have never had trauma they call me and just tell me the problem so they'll call me and say listen Barbara this has happened and this is what we're going to do about it and t..."
Understanding Trauma as Perception
Van der Kolk clarifies that trauma is not merely a story but a perception shaped by experiences. He illustrates how different individuals interpret traumatic events based on their age and context, leading to varied psychological outcomes.
"percep what's the difference so the issue is something happens and your brain and mind takes it in and then makes an adaptation to that particular event that depends on how old you are in the circumst..."
The Inkblot Test and Trauma Interpretation
Discussing the Rorschach inkblot test, van der Kolk shares how individuals project their trauma onto ambiguous images. He highlights the differences in interpretations among trauma survivors, emphasizing the subjective nature of trauma perception.
"that's what almost everybody who I know who was beaten as a child uh that's the internal understanding of it not when you're eight years old or 15 years old but when you're very young that becomes you..."
The Universality of Trauma
Van der Kolk presents statistics on the prevalence of trauma, noting that many individuals have experienced some form of abuse or violence. He stresses that trauma is a common experience, affecting a significant portion of the population.
"so one of the things most uh profound uh research experience I had was purely accidental we started to do warshock tests on people what's that in BL test so you saw some formless ink picture and we sh..."
Neuroimaging and Trauma
Exploring the effects of trauma on brain function, van der Kolk discusses neuroimaging findings that reveal differences in brain activity among trauma survivors. He explains how trauma can lead to heightened sensitivity and altered perceptions of danger.
"know is basically just a piece of paper with random yeah but it's been analyzed on about 100,000 people over the years so there are certain patterns you can detect in it yeah yeah I've never done an i..."
The Cockroach Center of the Brain
Van der Kolk describes the 'Cockroach Center' of the brain, which becomes hyperactive in trauma survivors, leading to a constant sense of danger. He explains how this heightened state of alertness affects emotional regulation and overall well-being.
"said you've done a lot of neuroimaging yeah scans um if you if if I was traumatized and you scanned my brain is there something you could see not necessarily I can see how uh your brain may be differe..."
The Cycle of Trauma and Anxiety
Discussing the relationship between trauma and anxiety, van der Kolk explains how trauma can lead to a perpetual state of fear and hyper-vigilance. He illustrates how this cycle can manifest in everyday interactions and emotional responses.
"things in the last 20 years so how how does trauma affect the brain it affects the brain that you tend to there's there's one part of your brain that I call the Cockroach Center of your brain the per ..."
Triggers and Sensitivity in Trauma Survivors
Van der Kolk elaborates on how trauma survivors often experience heightened sensitivity to triggers, which can lead to misinterpretations of benign situations. He emphasizes the importance of understanding these reactions in therapeutic contexts.
"want to take some drugs to make yourself feel alive sometimes um stuff like that yeah so the part of my brain you said just under the amig around the amydala below them below the amydala people that a..."
The Brain's Response to Trauma
Concluding his discussion, van der Kolk explains how trauma affects brain function, particularly in areas responsible for emotional processing. He highlights the complexity of trauma's impact on mental health and the need for comprehensive treatment approaches.
"by things and that makes makes you feel like you you are doing terrible things to me and it's not like I'm hyp sensitive uh and when you have an off day uh that is your issue and not my issue no when ..."
The Role of Time in Trauma Perception
Bessel van der Kolk discusses how trauma affects the brain's perception of time, particularly the dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex, which helps individuals maintain perspective. He explains that trauma can cause a person to lose their sense of time, making past experiences feel immediate and real.
"you actually uh become a little bit of a blubbering idiot all of us when we really are angry upset and not very articulate but we have a lot of feelings and then the the piece that by I show this is t..."
The Nature of Trauma: Present vs. Past
This segment delves into the nature of trauma, emphasizing that individuals often feel as if traumatic events are happening in the present rather than being memories. Van der Kolk explains how this confusion can lead to intense emotional responses and the challenge of distinguishing past trauma from current experiences.
"have a sense it's like little babies only a sense of of time out whatever happens happens totally then you see a child slowly grow and they get a sense of perspective it's happening right now but tomo..."
Healing Trauma with EMDR
Bessel van der Kolk shares insights on Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) therapy, detailing its effectiveness in helping individuals process and heal from trauma. He recounts success stories of patients who have undergone EMDR and experienced significant improvements in their mental health.
"nature of trauma trauma is not a memory it's a reliving are you consciously reliving it or is your subconscious reliving you feel like it's happening right now with all forms of trauma but not it's ha..."
The Science Behind EMDR
In this segment, van der Kolk discusses the scientific basis of EMDR, explaining how it activates pathways in the brain that help individuals differentiate between past trauma and present reality. He highlights the importance of this therapy in treating trauma and its growing acceptance in the mental health community.
"clinical practice oh really people really coming to life people just saying it's over give me the the the most the best example the good example is the videotape I showed people yesterday of a woman a..."
Experiencing EMDR: A Live Demonstration
Bessel van der Kolk conducts a live demonstration of EMDR with a participant, illustrating how the therapy works in real-time. He guides the participant through recalling an unpleasant experience while using eye movements, showcasing the immediate calming effects of the technique.
"well and then of course we had to do a little research which took us 15 years to get enough funding to get do it to see what happens when you move your eyes back and forth and then we discover that if..."
The Transformative Power of EMDR
Van der Kolk reflects on the transformative effects of EMDR, discussing how it can create new associative processes in the brain. He emphasizes the therapy's ability to help individuals move past their trauma and regain a sense of control over their emotional responses.
"you have had not too long ago yeah and when can you bring to mind what you saw at that point yeah can you remember what the voice sounded like at that point or whatever it was and sounds come to mind ..."
Breath Work and Trauma Healing
In this segment, van der Kolk explores the role of breath work in trauma healing. He discusses its historical use in various cultures and its effectiveness in helping individuals reconnect with their bodies and emotions, further enhancing the healing process.
"is and you know of course if you bring up something much worse than what you had going to it takes it much longer and a lot of other stuff comes up but what somehow EMDR seems to do it creates new ass..."
The Connection Between Body and Mind
Bessel van der Kolk explains how trauma disrupts the connection between the body and mind, particularly through the insula, which links physical sensations to emotional experiences. He highlights the importance of addressing this connection in trauma treatment to restore a healthy relationship with one's body.
"sense for one thing it's been used since I'm time Memorial in certain cultures have people people always Discover it no in India people know it not in Europe nobody knows about breth work that's why t..."
Yoga as a Tool for Reconnection
Bessel van der Kolk elaborates on how yoga can help individuals reconnect with their bodies and feelings, especially for those with trauma. He acknowledges that while yoga can be beneficial, it may also trigger intense emotions for trauma survivors. The segment highlights the need for sensitivity in yoga practices for those with a history of abuse.
"you don't feel alive you don't feel connected you uh you can't feel pleasure or you feel hyper sensitive and you feel hypers sensitive because you talk about the two sort of responses being disconnect..."
The Role of Body Awareness in Healing
Van der Kolk shares personal anecdotes about the transformative power of body work and massage in overcoming trauma. He discusses how trauma can create habitual responses that disconnect individuals from their bodies, and how therapy can help them recognize and address these patterns.
"we see it all the time is that uh something gets triggered and you start getting upset just doing a simple down dog let's say or certainly the the yoga pose that all SE abused victims have great troub..."
Understanding Energy and Trauma Responses
In this segment, van der Kolk explores the concept of picking up on others' energy and how it relates to trauma. He discusses the complexities of interpersonal interactions and how past experiences can influence current emotional responses, emphasizing the importance of understanding these dynamics in therapy.
"came to live in a new body I no longer live Frozen in that body of this little child who who almost died had a profound effect of me as as much as anything I've ever done why and how because you get s..."
The Evolutionary Basis of Human Connection
Bessel van der Kolk reflects on the evolutionary aspects of human connection and the importance of community for survival. He discusses how modern individualistic cultures may hinder our ability to form deep connections, which are crucial for healing from trauma.
"they have memories of being victimized and it help gives me a vis experience of my body can defend itself my body I can use my body to take care of myself and that's not an intellectual process that's..."
The Importance of Community in Trauma Recovery
Van der Kolk emphasizes the critical role of community and social connections in overcoming trauma. He shares insights from his work with combat veterans, illustrating how bonding with others can facilitate healing and resilience in the face of traumatic experiences.
"evolutionary standpoint um as you were speaking I was thinking where where has this come from you know this ability to subconsciously just get a re for someone and then form a pattern of okay this typ..."
Challenges of Individualism in Modern Society
In this segment, van der Kolk discusses the challenges posed by individualistic societies, particularly in terms of loneliness and disconnection. He highlights the need for collaborative activities, such as music and theater, to foster deeper connections and support mental health.
"are yeah are we losing that a little bit you know people are getting loner and loner and more individualistic huge huge issue screens as virtual realities is our biggest challenge I think yeah why uh ..."
Finding Connection in a Screen-Dominated World
Bessel van der Kolk addresses the impact of technology on human connection, noting that screens can create a false sense of fulfillment while isolating individuals. He stresses the importance of real-life interactions and community engagement for mental well-being.
"those connections than men yeah I think so I think so although no that's not entirely true uh I learned a lot about love for my combat veterans to some degree I think most human beings don't know what..."
Reversing Trauma: The First Steps
Van der Kolk outlines the initial steps for addressing trauma, emphasizing the importance of understanding the individual's story and values. He critiques traditional diagnostic approaches and advocates for a more personalized, narrative-driven method of therapy.
"yourself well but you know um I have friends who went to eatan uh so the definition for me of many Englishmen is your mother hatte you and send you off to buring school when you're six years old and n..."
The Role of Physical Activity in Mental Health
Bessel van der Kolk discusses the importance of active physical creation in mental health treatment, emphasizing that traditional methods often overlook deep connections. He expresses his concerns about the political climate and how it reflects societal discomfort, which can impact mental health. This segment highlights the need for a more holistic approach to trauma treatment that includes physical activity.
"of things and that sort of not has not been part of mental health we talk and we give pills but but we don't really connect people on a very deep level is that is are you optimistic about this not aft..."
Three Steps to Reverse Trauma Damage
In this segment, Bessel outlines the three broad ways to reverse trauma damage. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the individual’s story and values before prescribing treatments. The conversation delves into the significance of creating a personalized map of the patient's experiences and how this approach can lead to effective healing.
"trump Let's uh let's leave it at that yeah no I think no obvious psychopath who doesn't give a [ __ ] about anybody else are you able to point to anything good about him and I've when I've had people ..."
Neurofeedback and Brain Wave Organization
Bessel explains the concept of neurofeedback and its role in organizing brain waves to improve focus and attention. He discusses how trauma can disrupt normal brain function and the importance of calming the brain through various practices. This segment provides insights into how neurofeedback can be a valuable tool in trauma recovery.
"who you are what is working what isn't working what has helped you what hasn't helped you what it gets in the way and so we create a map together of who you are uh and to some degree who you are in re..."
The Importance of Body Practices
Bessel emphasizes the significance of body practices, such as yoga and martial arts, in trauma recovery. He discusses how human touch can be healing and the challenges faced by individuals who have experienced trauma. This segment highlights the need for individuals to reconnect with their bodies to facilitate healing.
"a way that you can be more focused and pay more attention so I've got some uh a graph I put on the screen for anybody yeah watching and it shows five different types of brain waves yeah gamma brain wa..."
Psychedelic Therapy: A Revolutionary Approach
In this segment, Bessel shares his views on psychedelic therapy and its potential to revolutionize trauma treatment. He discusses the positive outcomes observed in studies involving MDMA and how these experiences can lead to profound self-compassion and healing. This segment underscores the transformative power of psychedelics in addressing trauma.
"psyched experience a psychedelic experience and you found them yourself telling people that more than more and more recently well because I have done the research now and uh our results were really qu..."
The Bottom-Up Approach to Healing
Bessel contrasts the top-down approach of talk therapy with the bottom-up approach that focuses on bodily experiences. He discusses the importance of allowing the body to process trauma and how this can lead to significant healing. This segment highlights the need for a comprehensive understanding of trauma treatment.
"general to give people experiences of connection and pleasure that is terribly important but when I uh you know I wrote this book before I got into psychedelic therapies I would add another dimension ..."
Weightlifting and Trauma Recovery
Bessel explores the connection between weightlifting and trauma recovery, noting how many individuals who have experienced trauma turn to weightlifting as a means of empowerment. He discusses the psychological aspects of building strength and agency through physical activity, emphasizing the need for further research in this area.
"for trauma even though you say it's helpful for you my friend Mariah say it's helpful I go like interesting let's see for how many people it's helpful yeah one of the ways I think about it is actually..."
The Impact of Psychedelics on Self-Perception
In this segment, Bessel reflects on the profound effects of psychedelics on individuals' self-perception and compassion. He shares insights from studies showing how psychedelics can help individuals reconnect with their past traumas and foster a sense of self-compassion. This segment highlights the potential of psychedelics to facilitate deep emotional healing.
"a few of my friends have become very very good scientists and they say the same thing about her early LD experiences of really truly having opened up their minds to many possibilities but then the cul..."
The Power of Self-Compassion
Bessel van der Kolk discusses the transformative power of self-compassion in healing trauma. He emphasizes how recognizing the pain of one's inner child can shift feelings of self-hatred to compassion, allowing individuals to understand their experiences and even feel empathy for their perpetrators. This segment highlights the importance of self-compassion in trauma recovery.
"you were unaware of were so vivid deep down inside and I feeling oh this poor kid look what they went through he was so little he was so small he couldn't defend himself and so you get this very deep ..."
MDMA Therapy: A Revolutionary Approach
In this segment, Bessel van der Kolk explains the revolutionary impact of MDMA-assisted therapy on PTSD treatment. He shares statistics from clinical trials showing significant improvements in PTSD symptoms and emphasizes the importance of the therapeutic relationship in fostering self-love and openness to new experiences. This highlights the potential of MDMA therapy in transforming lives.
"Revolution because we don't know how it works and I was looking at some stats well we don't know how anything works you know we just have a bunch of hypothesis I was looking at some stats that say um ..."
Psychedelics and Depression Treatment
Bessel discusses recent studies on psychedelics, particularly psilocybin, and their effectiveness in treating treatment-resistant depression. He shares findings that show significant reductions in depression symptoms and emphasizes the need for legal access to these therapies. This segment underscores the potential of psychedelics in mental health treatment.
"PTSD the real issue is do you love yourself is your heart open are you open to new experiences you know not do you have this little list of symptoms in the PTSD skill but are you a human being who uh ..."
Personal Experience with Psychedelics
Bessel van der Kolk shares his personal experience with MDMA during a clinical study, revealing how it brought forth deep emotional pain and trauma he had previously dismissed. This transformative experience led him to a greater understanding of trauma and empathy for others, illustrating the profound impact psychedelics can have on personal healing.
"treatment but these compounds aren't even legal in America and the UK yet that's right but ketamine is ketamine is and we do a fair amount of ketamine is just a therapy these days and I'm intrigued th..."
The Importance of Safe Settings in Psychedelic Therapy
In this segment, Bessel emphasizes the critical role of safe and supportive environments in psychedelic therapy. He discusses how the context of these experiences can significantly influence outcomes and stresses the need for proper guidance and support during such transformative journeys.
"got in touch with that hearing all these trauma stories did have had a profound effect on me and so I was really changed by that experience I became a much sadder but somewhat wiser man you became a s..."
The Shift in Perspective from Psychedelic Experiences
Bessel reflects on how his psychedelic experiences have made him more humble and compassionate towards others. He discusses the importance of connection and support in the therapeutic process, highlighting how these experiences can lead to profound personal growth and understanding of trauma.
"psychedelics in very safe uh conditions with a lot of support and that the set and setting of psychedelics which John's Hopkins study also took very good care of all the studies you mentioned did that..."
Healing Trauma: A Complex Journey
Bessel van der Kolk addresses the complexity of healing from trauma, acknowledging that while progress can be made, the journey is ongoing. He emphasizes the hopeful narratives in his book, showcasing stories of individuals who have found healing through various therapeutic approaches.
"yeah yeah just one dose well I've had some other experiences also I've had a number of other really painful experiences on psychedelics uh and it made me much more so you know people say oh you how ho..."
The Role of Psychodrama in Healing
In this segment, Bessel discusses the therapeutic benefits of psychodrama, where individuals act out their experiences in a three-dimensional space. He explains how this method can evoke powerful emotional releases and provide new insights into past traumas, making it a valuable tool in therapy.
"book every chapter tells stories about people go better and as much Sciences have been able to do I've proven how helpful EMDR can be I've proven how well Young can be proven how well neur feedback ca..."
Creating New Realities Through Role Play
Bessel elaborates on the effectiveness of role-playing in therapy, where individuals can visualize and interact with representations of significant figures from their past. This technique allows for emotional processing and the creation of new, healing narratives, demonstrating the power of experiential therapy.
"when you act out things in threedimensional space it becomes a completely different phenomenon if I tell you let's put your family in this room yeah um and I say where where you choose somebody to pla..."
Understanding ADHD: A Multifaceted Issue
Bessel van der Kolk discusses the rising diagnoses of ADHD and challenges the binary understanding of the condition. He emphasizes that ADHD symptoms exist on a continuum and can be influenced by various factors, including trauma, genetics, and environmental conditions, advocating for a more nuanced approach to understanding attention disorders.
"have as you see him here um It's Complicated because exactly yeah it's complicated because one of the reactions is like one of the reactions I had is when he sits there he's in charge yeah but now as ..."
The Complexity of ADHD Diagnoses
In this segment, Bessel explores the complexities surrounding ADHD diagnoses, noting that symptoms can vary widely among individuals. He highlights the need for a deeper understanding of the underlying causes of attention issues, including trauma and environmental factors, rather than relying solely on traditional diagnostic criteria.
"and neglectful fathers and then but I say at some point after you s do things with him I may even say you want to hit your dad possibly I might actually do that actually have you hit your that put a p..."
The Limitations of Current Diagnostic Systems
Bessel critiques the current diagnostic systems for mental health, arguing that they are outdated and lack scientific validity. He calls for a shift towards a more comprehensive understanding of mental health that considers the complexities of human experience and the brain's functioning.
"so you make a virtual new reality with that is physical and visceral with other people and that memory of what it feels like can be very profound and you're doing this in with a group of people I do I..."
The Financial Focus of Healthcare Systems
In this segment, Bessel discusses the profit-driven nature of healthcare systems and how it impacts the quality of care. He emphasizes the need for a return to genuine medical practice focused on healing rather than financial gain, advocating for a more patient-centered approach to mental health treatment.
"teacher about it said about it's a mismatch I as an 80y old guy cannot give you as a 30 something year old guy the feeling of what it been like if your mom would have loved you at age three we cannot ..."
Raising Untraumatized Children
Bessel shares insights on parenting and the importance of community support in raising children. He emphasizes the need to listen to children's needs and not to isolate oneself in the parenting journey, highlighting the role of social connections in preventing trauma in future generations.
"have don't have ADHD or you don't have ADHD these are no binary issues so this capacity to focus to pay attention to be flexible in your attention is is a dimensional issue dimensional issue so people..."
The Flaws in ADHD Diagnosis
Bessel van der Kolk critiques the current ADHD diagnostic system, emphasizing its lack of scientific validity and the need for a more nuanced understanding of mental health. He argues that the existing labels are outdated and do not reflect the complexities of human psychology, advocating for a shift towards a more comprehensive approach to mental health diagnosis.
"many types yeah that's right so almost makes me feel that the label the singular label which we share although there's all these subtypes is necessarily helping me to understand myself in any way yeah..."
The Role of Insurance in Mental Health
Van der Kolk shares an anecdote about an insurance company executive who admits that their focus is on maximizing subscribers rather than genuinely helping patients. This highlights the conflict between financial interests and the true goal of mental health care, which should be to improve patient outcomes through updated neuroscience and understanding of the brain.
"not why I think we're not doing it because our focus is not on helping people our focus is on bonding successful financially or financial organizations you know I I I teach neuro feedback and there's ..."
Raising Non-Traumatized Kids
Bessel discusses the importance of community in raising children, emphasizing that children benefit from diverse influences rather than being raised in isolation. He advocates for a communal approach to parenting, where children can learn from multiple caregivers, helping them to develop a balanced perspective and avoid inheriting parental trauma.
"filter out irrelevant information how well is your brain able to be still and quiet and how well are you able to take on the task and complete it how do I not raise a traumatized kid Vel because I'm g..."
The Importance of Support in Trauma Recovery
Van der Kolk explains that trauma stems from feelings of helplessness and the absence of support during critical moments. He stresses the need for children to experience reliable support from caregivers, which can counteract the effects of trauma and foster resilience.
"really part of a large environment where they can see their parents as safe people but also flawed people and the more nuclear you get the the harder it gets to keep your pathology out of your kids uh..."
Healing Through Community and Connection
Bessel emphasizes the healing power of community involvement, such as participating in sports or artistic groups. He argues that these experiences foster a sense of belonging and safety, which are crucial for overcoming trauma and developing healthy relationships.
"what many people miss when you have a drunken parent so we see this all the time in our practice people have a violent parent usually the father but not always um and then Mom or Dad in my case more m..."
The Search for Effective Help
Van der Kolk reflects on the challenges individuals face in finding effective treatment for trauma. He notes that many people become accidental explorers of healing methods, often feeling lost in the process. He underscores the importance of recognizing when a treatment isn't working and the difficulty of navigating this journey without proper guidance.
"know you I think the the issue of rhythmicity and synchronicity is really at the core of our internal sense of safety and belonging yeah vessel we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the la..."
The Impact of Community on Well-Being
The discussion shifts to the significance of community in adult life, with Van der Kolk and the host reflecting on how participation in group activities, like sports or music, can enhance emotional well-being. They highlight the decline of communal spaces and activities in modern society, which contributes to feelings of loneliness and disconnection.
"because you'll feel stupid and ignorant and if something is not helping you it is very hard for you to S to for yourself this not helping me because this person is not helping me but than blaming your..."
Closing Thoughts and Community Engagement
In the closing segment, Van der Kolk expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share his insights and the impact of his work on individuals. The host acknowledges the profound influence of Van der Kolk's teachings on understanding trauma and healing, emphasizing the importance of community and connection in fostering resilience.
"that also yeah we well we kind of just assume that Society is designed in such a way where it'll give us what we need yeah yeah but in fact if you think about the loneliness stats and the way things e..."