"I've had thousands of people tag my CEO on Twitter calling on him to fire me I was actually on vacation and I got bored and I was like I haven't logged into Twitter I haven't posted anything in Twitte..."

"tall was one of the first and most active community members when I was just starting my newsletter slack community and as a PM I've admired from afar for a very long time he's got some really unique a..."

"stayed in ic for this long he's been a PM at patreon at Wix at appsflyer and most recently joined Riverside as their first ever product manager Riverside by the way is the platform that I used to reco..."

"explains why every tech company has just two departments that matter the difference between books smart decisions and street smart decisions we also spend the most time I've ever spent in Failure corn..."

"more from tall he's actually about to launch a course on Maven that's called build your PM productivity system which based on the conversation that we had I am confident is going to be awesome if you ..."

"you've stayed an IC product manager for your entire career for 12 years I don't think I've ever met a PM that's been in ic for 12 years I imagine you've had many opportunities to be promoted I imagine..."

"strategy for my career like my strategy is not to have a strategy for the longest time I've gone by am I excited to wake up in the morning and what's going to make me excited to wake up in the morning..."

"schedule or their days or how they spend the highest you know high percentage of their time um and said wow that's what I want to be doing uh if I compare their days with mine and the the stuff they'r..."

"same pattern where they've gone to you know team lead or director and so on and their next role they request to be an IC like they insist on being an IC and yeah so that's that's from the you know fro..."

"enthusiastic about what he does and he you know he's never like aspired to be like a chairman Provost like that like he just loves what he does and he stay there and um I just see the joy like the fun..."

"up into first of all just like creates it as an idea that there is progress creating clear levels and rubric just like you would for you know within any level or within any title I think saying it out..."

"about this idea of super I's and as you mentioned there's kind of this been Rise of and shift of flattening of ORS as you said of people hiring more senior product managers is there's a sense of that ..."

"that is you know a lot of I think the result of that is um like being at 10x PM for example is becoming more and more table Stakes especially like you mentioned with AI That's Just the Tailwind for al..."

"might have taken you know 10 years ago five years ago a director organization like a director level organization and everybody reporting to that director to achieve something could probably be achieve..."

"AI that was you know me director of design and our founder but then it came time for you know the rupper meets the road uh we did a kickoff on the engineers you know everybody's bought in everybody's ..."

"whisper whisper I to dictate and I was like you know let me just tell you a little bit more background I just like started talking to it like I would for a developer you know joining the team and I ju..."

"way um I also have like a desktop app on my own that I use because it's just such a great U you know transcription model awesome it's it's open source free uh provided by open AI right it's their it's..."

"and then your team and how you build that culture and those habits to just give you a lot of Leverage as an IC so that you know still as one person you can you know own a lot of scope you can influenc..."

"urgent is happening in slack like we really need you and then I'll open Slack you know I'll violate my rule it's totally fine um but that's like it's so rare that uh the system works for me and okay a..."

"and even persuade people that we should dig deeper into this or for example another Advantage is that uh if I'm on a conversation with a person from sales or CSM from customer success and they'll ment..."

"that I I'm on that you know I had a a new teammate come up to me uh recently he just joined and uh he was on engineering and he's he came up to me excitedly and he's like I found a case that you didn'..."

"people are waiting on you do you find like a lot of communication is happening direct messages with you instead of public channels for the team are a lot of working meetings just like you and one othe..."

"that just becomes a chain reaction such awesome advice there's like it's so counterintuitive also I think I'm to a lot of product managers where you're basically saying like remove yourself as a depen..."

"these little mic I call these micro interactions like so much of a PM is these micro interactions with team members which so much harder now in a remote world where we can't just walk by and just like..."

"extremely welcome and imagine there's a bunch of coaching you do to like help Engineers designers researchers data people think the way you think almost to kind of become more pme is that a part of th..."

"I'll just make this really concrete without naming names uh the companies that I worked at the two departments at one company was product design and support like those are the like if those two depart..."

"company and I think this really crystallized for me when I finally worked in a company where product is that department you feel that okay so the uh $664,000 question whatever billion dollar question ..."

"think that'll uh make it clear I think maybe one trick here is just see what team drives growth oftentimes it's going to be sales often times it's going to be product experments they're running could ..."

"company this was 2009 so like yeah anyways yeah and I think this is where a lot of people struggle with their pm at a company that's very not product driven and they read all these books about being e..."

"love that this episode is brought to you by EPO EPO is a Next Generation AB testing and feature management platform built by Al Lums of Airbnb and snowflake for modern growth teams companies like twit..."

"that's get.com Lenny let's move on to another uh let's say hot take that you have you have this kind of phrase that there's a big difference between book smart decision- making and street smart decisi..."

"really big example of this and I I won't name the company I was at this company that changed the structure of the pricing and the change was actually not meant to make more money it was meant to unblo..."

"the negative but you didn't see all the positive because the positive was you know what happened 30 days later and you saw the negative immediately you know a lot of things like that and I I would hav..."

"going to happen in that second example is there anything that triggered that recognition or is it just people sitting around being like Oh what about this or was it because the first example you had a..."

"back okay yes for sure um this is just this is just like what I'm talking about is to recognize it what you do with it right is a different thing but you know I joke when we when we do uh changes to u..."

"disclaimer like during this those two weeks we look at every support ticket and we look at everything on social media we yeah for sure okay I have two more examples about the the street smart books Ma..."

"me gong link recordings you know in the past and in the current demos and just show me the difference and it would it would pain me to watch these and I was like oh we got to fix this like people aren..."

"it every situation is different every Market is different right every compan is different what it takes to win is different and so myself I've had phases where I've been this like Zealot of you know e..."

"solved before in this way which will inevitably happen right that's what we're all doing um and everything else will work out like you'll be the one writing the blog posts not just reading them such i..."

"you got second example of that is um I was building a referral program and uh we made a user research plan and we ended up only executing half of it which means we talked to the people who were alread..."

"think being vulnerable and showing weakness makes people think less of you but almost always they think more of you because they didn't realize what they're doing they didn't realize what you're going..."

"yeah if the stakes are really high yeah all right what else I have some stories I don't know if they're failure stories but they're kind of like wild west you know let's do it let's do what feels like..."

"though um yeah all right it sounds like uh again this is this is just like wild west you know Wild West Le like PM is no less wild than than life itself I uh I've pulled an April Fool's prank on an ex..."

"detailed we really invested a lot in it and of this like German website and it was we made up a a tech arm of their Spiegel we call the Spiegel Tech we bought the domain I'm probably incriminating Mys..."

"of the company goes wait what do you mean prank and he dons on it Dons on him and he just gets up throws down his jacket and like walks out of the room so we forgot to tell him he had to you know stew..."

"completely and throw it out the window amazing T is there anything else that you want to share before we get to our very exciting lighting round we've covered a ton of stuff all kind it feels like the..."

"communicated it's like uh Illustrated almost like a comic book uh tons of super concrete examples and for me I think that's when these principles really sunk in is is from that that book really uh res..."

"this is going to be really helpful to me as a new parent there's um there's a book that another I'm just going to throw out a book recommendation reverse lighting around on this topic that Joe Hudson ..."

"about I'm sure you know a ton of people listening to this have have watched this show you think about the premise of the show it's this guy who's been given an impossible task and he's surrounded by l..."

"the Ted lasso somebody which is also very genuine like you really have to believe it and okay next question do you have a favorite product you've recently discovered that you really love so this morni..."

"for me it's outdoor equipment that uh you can feel that the person behind us is like using it along there with you first time a wet suit's been recommended on the podcast a great milestone two more qu..."

"that you know over time that I've really tried to apply that in a lot of ways uh emotionally um organizationally like at every level you think about that along those lines final question so at the beg..."

"now yeah let's hope a just come home let's hope things end soon uh I'm really impressed with how much you've been able to get done in the middle of all of that and thanks for making time for this I kn..."